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Velocity is simply one factor in the energy and momentum equations. Energy dictates how hard a bullet hits an object. Momentum dictates how well that bullet will move through the target (in addition to other factors like sectional density and bullet construction). Good penetration results are...

Velocity by itself does not kill. Velocity combined with the appropriate mass does. .40s&w and .357 sig, generally speaking, have loads with higher energy and momentum figures, even compared to the +P 9mm stuff.

We're talking about +P ammo, which, generally-speaking, exceeds the load parameters that a cartridge and platform was originally designed for. Comparing +P 9mm (either the 147gr or 115gr Xtreme Penetrator) to +P .40s&w, there is easily over a 100ft-lb difference. Heavy .40 Smith & Wesson +P...

Not all that close to .357 sig, or even .40s&w, if we were to do apples-to-apples comparisons. The .40s&w and .357 sig offer hotter loads which have a distinct advantage over 9mm, even the +P stuff.

I think the permit classes are saying open-carry is illegal simply for CYA purposes. They don't want to get in trouble if one of their students causes an incident. Legally-speaking, open-carry of a pistol is not illegal, otherwise thousands of hunters, trackers and target shooters would be...

I was being facetious. But if I get arrested this fall for openly carrying my handgun during a hunt, I'll be sure to let everyone know... ;)

Okay, then by that interpretation any open display of your handgun to hunt or target shoot is also illegal. It is impossible to do either of those activities without openly displaying and carrying your handgun, even if only for a brief moment. So let's make sure we get the word out to all...

Right, but you've acknowledged that hunting and target shooting with a pistol are not specifically "exempted" but yet are somehow considered legal. And yet both activities require open carry, which you also seem to implicitly acknowledge. So how is it that openly carrying a pistol to hunt a...

By the way, that clause you've kept repeating only applies to certain license holders in NY City and Nassau and Suffolk Counties. In the rest of NY, thankfully, a court most prove there is a valid reason to take away someone's permit, and the permit holder has legal recourse. The full and...

That's not a legal argument. The misdemeanor section is written plain as day. The illegality of open carry is not. Where does it state that open carrying (to include while hunting or target shooting) is one of those "offenses" that can be treated as a misdemeanor?

I'm not trying validate or reinforce what i agree to be poorly written laws. I'm saying that if anyone was actually taken to court for open carrying a pistol, the prosecution would have a tough time establishing the legal basis for that supposed crime. And so you think the reason handgun...

Hunting isn't illegal. But according to your line of logic, any amount of open carry with a pistol is illegal. Simply by nature of hunting, your pistol will be out and carried openly....that's normally how hunting works. There is no hunting exemption listed in law 400.00. Have you heard of...

That question wasn't directed specifically at you. But it is relevant to your argument. And I have in fact asked you to answer that question earlier in the conversation. You have yet to provide an answer. How can handgun hunting be considered legal if it is not specifically listed as an...

The quote you referenced did. Are you even reading what you post?

Refer to this earlier post: The law doesn't forbid handgun hunting or target shooting. Nor does it forbid open carry. Again, I ask: where are these hunting and target restrictions mentioned in the law?

I understand the arbitrary manner in which a permit can be revoked. But you're side-stepping the issue which our originally brought up. Where are the specific hunting and target restrictions listed, either in law 400.00 or on the pistol permit itself? And what is the legal text which...

So you agree that open carry is legal? Or you agree that hunting and target shooting are allowed? IMHO, those two categories are one-in-the-same....you can't feasibly handgun hunt or target shoot without demonstrating some amount of open carry.

The license types are listed out in detail in law 400.00 (listed below). Where are those restrictions listed? On the pistol permit card itself? There are no target or hunting 'restrictions' listed in law 400.00 for any of the permit types. Go read the text if you don't believe me:

I'm not advocating that people go on open-carry protest marches in downtown. But I will staunchly defend the legality of carrying and using your sidearm in a responsible and logical manner. Handgun hunters, trackers, trappers, or people who just want to carry while camping on state land...

Yes we do. And no one is arguing otherwise.

8 shot .357 magnum's....I'd say that makes a good case for revolvers. Heck, even 6 shot of .357 or .44 magnum makes sense for certain applications. A lot of guides and outdoorsmen are still carrying revolvers as dedicated wilderness protection sidearms. People say the Glock 20 can serve in...

I've been saying that from the get-go. Why has it taken you this long to agree with me? No, a premises-holder can't open carry throughout the state because the license clause in 400.00 specifically states where he/she is allowed to carry. It does not mandate open or concealed carry while on...

The new 1911 offerings in 10mm seem interesting. Will they save the 1911 from obscurity? As someone else stated, I didn't realize that it needed saving. A lot of enthusiasts, and LE/Military groups, still seem to have a preference for the 1911 design. Doesn't the FBI's Hostage team use a...

Show me the legal analysis which states that open carry is illegal in NY. I've seen internet bloggers claim as much. I've yet to see any lawyer write a position paper on that issue. Moreover, I'm still wondering: how is someone supposed to handgun hunt in NY (which is allowed according to the...

Within their home, it certainly allows them to open carry. I'd like to see the NY court case which establishes the legal precedent that forbids someone from open carrying on their own property. That aside, I'm not sure what your intent is with that question. Law 400.00 provides license types...

There is no legal provision which allows for the open carry of pistols specifically for hunting or trapping. People do so because it is legal in general and it, is in fact, accepted as common practice in many areas. Like I said earlier, I'm not advocating that people open carry in crowded...

If they're anything like the personalities on this forum, I'll pass on that. I know what part of law 265.00 you're referring to. The exemptions to own a "firearm" in 265 are for firearms within very specific categories: To address what you claimed earlier, there are no "exemptions" to own a...

The permit gives you permission to carry concealed. That's a very nuanced, but important, distinction. There is no law, at least none that people have referred to so far, that forbids open carry.

That's now how law 400.00 works. It does not make exemptions based on the type of land you are on. Open carry of a handgun is permitted, so long as you are in an area where firearms are allowed. I've already agreed with that mentality in a previous post. I'm not advocating that people...

That clause gives you the right carry concealed....it does not forbid open carry. In order to be considered illegal, an act needs to be explicitly forbidden in the law's language. Simply arguing that conceal carry is permitted by 400.00 because it is explicitly mentioned, and that open carry...

And I'm still wondering why I haven't seen hundreds, if not thousands, of handgun hunters and trackers be arrested for "illegally" open-carrying during hunting season. Are there a whole bunch of cops who just don't care about enforcing the law?

Show me the legal language that states as much....All I'm seeing so far are vague claims and references to laws, which no one seems inclined to read and quote in order to make a logical legal argument.

What protocols? Law 400.00 states that there are specific license types: Within a certain license type (like unrestricted), the law does not dictate how the pistol shall be carried. It gives you the right to conceal carry, because otherwise owning and concealing a handgun is illegal. At no...

Officers have very little discretion when it comes to enforcing the law. Either someone broke the law or no crime was committed. That's why there are cases where peoples' arrests and charges are overturned for inappropriate or illegal justifications on the LEO's part. Some people here act...

I saw your references to those laws earlier in this thread. And to be fair, I have read through them. Have you? If so, please show me the language that specifically forbids the open carry of pistols. Laws dictate what isn't allowed. If something isn't explicitly stated in the law, then it...

Do you see the contradiction in that statement? Unless something is explicitly forbidden by the law, it is legal. The law tells you what you can't do; anything not mentioned there is, by default, legal. Excepting the obvious (certain variants of semi-auto's, short-barreled shotguns and...

Reviving an old thread here, but just to be clear, you can in fact open carry any legal firearm in NY. I would think that doing so would cause a stir in certain situations, but you can do it. The pistol permit gives you legal permission to conceal carry a pistol. The language explicitly...

Compare the sectional densities and energies being produced. The .357 Mag and the 10mm are at least in the same ballpark. The heavier magnums (.41 mag and up) offer a jump in performance for both areas.

There's also the chance the bear or deer could still be up and mobile or in an area where an optimal flanking shot is not available, in which case a heavier-hitting cartridge would be preferred. There is a lot of uncertainty with game recovery....you can't just plan for the best-case scenario...

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. In purely ballistic terms, .357 mag hardcast bullets do offer much better performance than comparable 9mm loads. The diameter of the bullet is only one factor, among many, to consider when estimating its lethality. I know that 10mm loads offer slightly...

Marginally better, if you really get into the weeds. .40s&w offers similar, though not the same, ballistic characteristics to .357 sig and is more readily available. Agree. Sidearms are backup weapons, or, to paraphrase a quote from a well-known firearms instructor: a pistol is a weapon used...

10mm does offer somewhat heavier bullets, but the heaviest hunting-oriented .357 loads (Buffalo Bore is one example) come with faster velocities and higher energies than the comparable 10mm loads. .357 mag also has better sectional density relative to 10mm. And penetration is heavily...

Disagree on that last part. Any pistol cartridge has the potential to kill a bear. But some are much better suited for such a task than others. I too have heard the story of the Alaskan guide who took down a grizzly with 9mm. I know that it can be done; that doesn't mean it should be done...

What kind of penetration does that 10mm Underwood have on whitetail?

I'll give a look at those other 10mm platforms. I'm not as familiar with those options as I am with the .357 revolvers. My biggest concern with the 10mm is having available hunting cartridges. Is there a lot of market support for that? As for weight/heft, it's a balancing act. I'm obviously...

For the .357, I've found some light-weight (relatively speaking) revolver platforms, to the tune of 35oz or so. I'm familiar with the Glock offerings. Though perhaps a little bit lighter, I am pretty set on having a DA/SA (either semi-auto or revolver) for walking around in the woods. As...

A 12 gauge, or .30 caliber hunting rifle, is always an option I'll have ready. Based on the initial sign and information gained from the hunter who took the shot, I'll have to make an educated guess on which firearm will be suitable for a particular recovery. If I deem that the animal is...

A friend and I are thinking about getting into tracking wounded game (deer and bear) in NY. We've talked to a few trackers, and they all have recommended that we get a powerful handgun of some sort. Shotguns and rifles can be used for dispatching the animal in some areas, but in others they...

Weight does matter. In fact, if John really has the military experience that he claims to have had, I'm surprised that he never learned that lesson earlier. It might not matter for a short jaunt to a tree stand. For a backcountry hunt, where are you carrying lots of gear in addition to a...

All right. Next time you go for a multi-day backcountry hunting trip with that 17lb target rifle of yours, please post a video. I'd like to see some action backing up all this talk.