ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I have 3 saiga’s. Two in .223 and one in x39. They are great guns! I bought them when they were around $350. I wish I bought a case if them! What if any optic?
300 blackout for deer?
- Thread starter Edwardteach72
- Start date
Man I wish I got lucky and snagged them up back in the day, I got mine right at the beginning of the safe and import ban for about $670, and for this year I am stuck with irons or a bushnell trs-25 (most likely the dot) I'm planning to save my pennies and eventually add a 1-6x scope down the road (most likely a primary arms). I do wish I has the mount to use my Primary arms version of the bushnell, the dot is much nicer but it's on an AR mount currently
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Hi edward,
IMO, with 16" carbines the 6.8 makes more sense than the 308 Winchester as one will leave a substantial amount of un-burned powder with most
conventional loads. With this I don't mean the 308 doesn't make a handy 16" carbine but when you think about it a 18" is pretty much the same
and IMO is the minimum length to get the most out of most rifle calibers w/o going rifle size. A 18" w/o a brake or short brake might be
the same OAL carbine as one with a longer brake or larger receiver or something. So it is nothing in practical terms.
However in internal ballistics 18" give more push with a wider range of powder and bullets.
After that 20" or 21" for most bolt actions and no need for longer unless one is building a long range.
Needless to say a bull pup can have a longer runway and still be shorter OAL.
Of course there might be other factors to lean towards the 308 like caliber or bore consolidation, surplus, etc... but I am just saying....
18" is the perfect size for those who do not want to compromise weight and compactness yet will enjoy a bit more performance gain.
If one needs data I have a substantial stack of load and bullet information with many barrel sizes both, from gas and bolt guns.
This is why I'm leaning 6.8, I want the smallest gun I can get and be semi auto,
Why? Because fuck it, i want to take as many (legally) deer as I can, with as "untraditional" (ethically) rifle as I can.
Yes AR patterns are becoming more traditional, but still not seen as the norm, and well if there is a good way to change that and I can be apart of it why no.
Why? Because fuck it, i want to take as many (legally) deer as I can, with as "untraditional" (ethically) rifle as I can.
Yes AR patterns are becoming more traditional, but still not seen as the norm, and well if there is a good way to change that and I can be apart of it why no.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Unless you really want another caliber, all the internets out there says that a 64 gr or 75 gr Gold Dot does the trick. You don't really need another caliber for creating awareness unless you want another caliber.
I like random cartridges
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You don't need another caliber until you really really need it.
Sadly people find out the hard way.
It is like in real life, when going on a trip do we go like... I estimate my car does 20 miles / gallon since I am doing 200 miles I am going to fill the tank
with 10 gallons and save!!
Or one simply fills up the tank with those 25 gallons to tackle whatever comes up?
Where is the prize for taking on a challenge? It is not like one is saving anything.
One thing I learned from several of the OLD time wildcatters and avid hunters is that one can be "African ready" with a 35 whelen made
from once fired free 30-06 surplus cases. Magnum like killing power for pennies.
Like that one several others (AR15 included) so easy, that a caveman can do it.
Sadly people find out the hard way.
It is like in real life, when going on a trip do we go like... I estimate my car does 20 miles / gallon since I am doing 200 miles I am going to fill the tank
with 10 gallons and save!!
Or one simply fills up the tank with those 25 gallons to tackle whatever comes up?
Where is the prize for taking on a challenge? It is not like one is saving anything.
One thing I learned from several of the OLD time wildcatters and avid hunters is that one can be "African ready" with a 35 whelen made
from once fired free 30-06 surplus cases. Magnum like killing power for pennies.
Like that one several others (AR15 included) so easy, that a caveman can do it.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Meke. Sometimes it is the challenge. That's why people handgun hunt or bow hunt. They don't want it too easy. They couldn't care less if they go home empty handed or if they have to run and track it when they could get close enough and get a shot off. That's the part of the hunt they enjoy.
As far as wildcats go, I don't know nor want to know or waste my time reloading bullets that I cannot buy at a store. It's just not me. I don't have the time nor the patience for such a monotonous task. I find no fun in it. It would be a chore for me. I'm sure many feel the same.
What you find fun, others don't.
As far as wildcats go, I don't know nor want to know or waste my time reloading bullets that I cannot buy at a store. It's just not me. I don't have the time nor the patience for such a monotonous task. I find no fun in it. It would be a chore for me. I'm sure many feel the same.
What you find fun, others don't.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
If you want the challenge take a picture as close as you can get from the animal. That is a true challenge.
If you want to harvest the animal make sure you give it a quick and honorable death.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Some may not like that type of a challenge. Some are only comfortable with certain challenges. Everyone is different.
See and I'm not talking about Wildcats, I'm talking about normal off the shelf ammo but not typically in an AR, hell a 7mm-08 ar10 would be fun
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
It is a matter of compassion. I would say the most basic and fundamental form of compassion.
If the cave man had rifles they would have use them.
The outdoors, tracking and such is a sport, the actual killing is not.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So you think bow and handgun hunting should be banned for those that like using them?
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The 6.8 built its reputation as a reliable killer for deer and hogs.
Even the modern 7.62x39 with specialty loads will give you a substantial edge over the 223 and of course the Barak.
Specialty ammo and reloads put it between a modern 30-30 and the 300 barak & 30 carbine.
The modern 308 or 7mm-08 AR carbines are as light as the AR15. Ammo is plentiful and affordable. Hunting specialcity ammo
is same price and even cheaper than the 223 and blackout.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Nothing should be banned. I believe more in education than enforcement.
There are bolt action pistols that are as powerful and accurate as the best rifle.
fair chase doesn't justify bad killing.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So if I wanted to go spear hunting I shouldn't because the 35 Gunner is better and someone should teach me that?
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
What does your gut tell you?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It tells me that if on Monday I'm tired but need to eat, I'll use a .308. On Saturday if my freezer is full and I want to fuck around for the sport and get close, I'll use a handgun.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I suggest follow the laws and do as you see fit.
Example 1 - The one everyone shares ...
Example 2 - The one few share...
Example 1 - The one everyone shares ...
Example 2 - The one few share...
I could just get a 450 bushmaster
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Why go so small? Why not a .50?
I wouldn't mind a 50 Beowulf, but the whole 10 round mags are 30 rounders and what not.
Also have looked at the safety harbor 50bmg uppers
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Any reason for the AR15 upper or still open to a new receiver? Weight differences are negligible.
Do you have a 308 already? IMO everyone should have one.
Boring? Perhaps. No matter what you shoot the infatuation phase will pass and then one is left with a reality.
358 winchester with ammo available gives magnum killing power from a small AR.
It also a matter of how much one shoots and if one wants to combine volume shooting (a more pleasurable one to shoot)
vs one more powerful with more killing power but less volume due to recoil.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The beo is a horrible case design and at 100 yards you have lots of momentum but already too slow. Poor ballistics.
Better stick to a shotgun that is about the same performance and one has option of premium sabots or cheap stuff.
Anything above 35 or 375 calibers is hard to justify in terms of ballistics performance.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I would get a .300 BLK. That way, all you need is an upper and 110gr Barnes rounds. Wait. Those aren't good for deer. You need something that'll drop them instantly.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Not judging but if my freezer is full I have no need to kill anything.
ManrisFrack
6.5 Creedmoor
Will, that's what happens when you score an upper CNS hit with most calibers. Obviously the caliber and round was quickly lethal in this specific case, but such examples are VERY poor indicators of general lethality. If you put the lead/copper into the off-switch, it doesn't matter if you're using a 50BMG or a 22Short. Not saying the 300 BO won't kill deer, just saying that the video doesn't prove much about the suitability of the caliber for deer.
5.56, 300 BO, Grendel, 6.8, 450 BM - all of these and more will drop a deer from a 16" AR. Pick the one you want, but be aware that some are better than others and stay within the envelope of the round you're using. I personally prefer 6.8 because 200+ yard shots are distinct possibilities for me. 6.8 and Grendel are the best of the bunch in this situation and 6.8 is a touch better with 16-18" barrels. A 308 would be better and, as a matter of fact, an AR308 is at the top of my gun project list. When I finally get around to pinning the thread protector and putting it together, I'll post it here. I will say, if you want a light 308 it'll be expensive. If you want a short 7mm-08 barrel, you might have to go custom ($).
@meketrefe What powders might a guy look at for 125gr 308 hunting loads in a 18" barrel?
5.56, 300 BO, Grendel, 6.8, 450 BM - all of these and more will drop a deer from a 16" AR. Pick the one you want, but be aware that some are better than others and stay within the envelope of the round you're using. I personally prefer 6.8 because 200+ yard shots are distinct possibilities for me. 6.8 and Grendel are the best of the bunch in this situation and 6.8 is a touch better with 16-18" barrels. A 308 would be better and, as a matter of fact, an AR308 is at the top of my gun project list. When I finally get around to pinning the thread protector and putting it together, I'll post it here. I will say, if you want a light 308 it'll be expensive. If you want a short 7mm-08 barrel, you might have to go custom ($).
@meketrefe What powders might a guy look at for 125gr 308 hunting loads in a 18" barrel?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Right. Any other hit may require a 50 yard track or so or it may not but the point is that it will kill if the shot is placed in the vital organ area and if you are good with that part of the hunt regarding the track, you are good with that.
That was a neck shot by the way which I would try to get if sport hunting anyway no matter what the caliber.
As far at the Blackout is concerned, hundreds if not thousands of deer have been taken since the inception of the caliber. People seem to discount that.
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Shoots100
.357 mag
And the 22lr has killed millions of deer since it's inception, but pretty much all 50 Continental states have banned the lowly 22lr for deer hunting.
The blackout, like a lot of niche cartridges, has it's limitations.
As long as you know them and don't push it, it'll do the job every time.
The advancement's in bullet making technology and design have made a lot of underrated cartridges deadlier.
Two of the most versatile cartridges were designed over a hundred years ago.
Both are still in production today and still going strong.
The 30.06 and the .50 Bmg.
There's really no need to have anything else in your arsenal, but then life would be boring.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Good powders for the light bullets are H4895, TAC, AA2460, W748, VArget (a tad slower but versatile).
Benchmark will be great for the 110gr bullets and will put them past 3,300 fps in a bolt action but it is a tad too fast for heavier
bullets. H335 is also another good one for the lightest bullets.