Congress Agrees to 2.3 TRILLION Spending Package,

[dc9mm]

A couple of topics being discussed here. First Trump should NOT have signed this bill. Its loaded with PORK. I think the reason he caved was he was convinced it would effect the GA senate Race. As long as the two current senators from GA voted for it I don't think it would have . But he was convinced it would. That is my GUESS WHY he signed such an awful spending package.

Now section 230. Twitter and the like would have to STOP censoring to keep from being deemed a publisher which would make them libel for content. As long as they stopped censoring they would be fine. Ending 230 would be a good thing for people like us.

 

[Jmac00]

None of them thought of it because of basic arithmetic...

There are about 320 million American citizens. Giving every one of them 1 million dollars would equate to 320 trillion dollars in direct payments. Last time I checked the spending package is a wee bit less than that.

Hell, Bezos could afford that

 

[SonOfSun]

Hell, Bezos could afford that

Mmmm Hmmm.....

 

[SonOfSun]

230 is just about who is a publisher and who isn't.

The New York Times is responsible for statements they publish on their editorial page (whether they wrote them or not). They get a pass on the classifieds.

The difference is that they pick and choose what to put on the editorial page, but the classifieds get everything that meets the objective standards. This was the case long before the Internet or section 230 was even an idea.

If twitter or facebook, etc... could objectively define their "community standards" and apply them consistently then they would be able to maintain their "neutral platform" status.

When they pick and choose which articles (or posts) they will allow arbitrarily like a publisher, then they are a publisher.

So it's 8kun or nothing?

If 230 went away then this site for example if they wanted to remain open to user posting would have to let Trollers post Nazi memes all day long, cuss in topic titles, create 100's of flat earth topics daily, etc. As soon as they filtered one post they'd now be a publisher exercising editorial control. That's nonsense. I think there should be a middle ground. 230 is that middle ground. It protects sites from being legally liable for third party content posted by users, but allows them to keep baseless trash off the site.

I'd agree that 230 has been abused in some cases though. I don't like twitter filtering out the Hunter Biden stuff. However, I still think getting rid of 230 would do more harm than good.

 

[Grimscale]

If 230 went away then this site for example if they wanted to remain open to user posting would have to let Trollers post Nazi memes all day long, cuss in topic titles, create 100's of flat earth topics daily, etc. As soon as they filtered one post they'd now be a publisher exercising editorial control.

You still don't get it.


If they have a standard, ie: "no Nazi memes", and applied it equally among ALL posters, then they are ok.
If they claim to have a standard, but only apply it to SOME of the posters.. for example, "no violent posts", but only apply it to those talking about self defense and not those who are organizing riots under the guise of 'peaceful protests', then they are a publisher.

A site can have Standards. It's how they apply it that makes them a publisher or not.

 

[Grimscale]

Congress can tell Trump to pound salt with his requests

this is an interesting concept.

What are the repercussions if Congress tells him to pound salt? Is there anything he can do? Can he then invalidate his signature, in effect making it as if he never signed?

 

[Jmac00]

someone explain to me why the the Corona relief package for AMERICANS isn't just ONE PARAGRAPH on ONE PAGE

It should simply say,

NO MORE GOVERNMENT HAND OUTS, TO ANYONE, EVRYONE GO BACK TO WORK, THE LOCKDOWNS ARE OVER. OPEN YOUR BARS, RESTAURANTS, MOVIE THEATERS, OPEN YOUR GYMS CHURCH'S, SYNAGODS AND MOSQUES, OPEN YOUR FACTORIES GO TO WORK, Yes, some of us will become sick, some of us will die, BUT 99.8% OF US WILL BE JUST FINE. its time to end this crap.

and yes, I now know 6 people (three with compromised immune systems) that have HAD the 'rona' and all six are just fine. All stayed home and all 6 recovered, all in the last 4 weeks.

GO TO WORK, end this economic bullshit

 

[SonOfSun]

You still don't get it.


If they have a standard, ie: "no Nazi memes", and applied it equally among ALL posters, then they are ok.
If they claim to have a standard, but only apply it to SOME of the posters.. for example, "no violent posts", but only apply it to those talking about self defense and not those who are organizing riots under the guise of 'peaceful protests', then they are a publisher.

A site can have Standards. It's how they apply it that makes them a publisher or not.

So then if they can create a "No Nazi memes" standard then they can create a standard that says, "No discussing possible Hunter Biden corruption". Now we're right back at square one, no one can talk about it on their platform.... as long as they publish a "standard" regarding it, they can filter.... just like now.

 

[Robin]

People think another law is alway the solution when the removal of a law is actually the real solution, revealing a plethora of laws that were supposed to be the solution caused by more laws.
Freedom is a scary thing to what is purported to be a free people who demand laws to set them free.
Robin

 

[drowhawk]

this is an interesting concept.

What are the repercussions if Congress tells him to pound salt? Is there anything he can do? Can he then invalidate his signature, in effect making it as if he never signed?

There is likely nothing he can do. From what I understand, "redlining" certain items in the bill is nothing more than a glorified formal request to take it out. It's like pleading "no contest."

I didn't consider him signing the bill in the hopes of maintaining GOP senate control as a possibility. That could be but I'd rather have him pocket veto the bill. At this point we're doomed regardless of the outcome in GA.

 

[SonOfSun]

this is an interesting concept.

What are the repercussions if Congress tells him to pound salt? Is there anything he can do? Can he then invalidate his signature, in effect making it as if he never signed?

Once it's signed, it's signed.

 

[dc9mm]

So then if they can create a "No Nazi memes" standard then they can create a standard that says, "No discussing possible Hunter Biden corruption". Now we're right back at square one, no one can talk about it on their platform.... as long as they publish a "standard" regarding it, they can filter.... just like now.

NO. Saying no discussing of this or that story is not a standard. You could say no political discussions, that could be a standard. But not some individual story like the Hunter Biden story.

A standard (French: Norme, German: Norm) is a technical document designed to be used as a rule, guideline or definition. It is a consensus-built, repeatable way of doing something.

Next week say a story breaks from a News Paper and its about Biden family hidden money overseas. Banning that story from your site is making you a publisher. Banning talk about violence to said family would be a standard.

 

[SonOfSun]

There is likely nothing he can do. From what I understand, "redlining" certain items in the bill is nothing more than a glorified formal request to take it out. It's like pleading "no contest."

Basically, yeah.

Redlining isn't a thing. Congress passes a bill as written, the president doesn't get to pick and choose which parts he signs into law. The whole bill is a concrete package. He either signs it or doesn't (or takes no action so it defaults).

 

[drowhawk]

I will say that if the GOP refuses to play ball with upping the direct payments from $600 to $2,000, they are going to F themselves even harder in the GA senate races than if Trump had just vetoed. People are going to look at the GOP as being the reason they got screwed out of the extra gov't money. EVERY single Republican I've talked to in the past few days wants the larger direct payments. Obviously the Dems wanted it all along.

This is the problem with gov't money. You can't just give $1200 as a "temporary" relief and then spend 9 months arguing over how much money to give to Israel and come back to the American people with $600 checks. People got that $1200 in March. Now they want more because they were told it was "temporary" and that "more was coming."

 

[SonOfSun]

NO. Saying no discussing of this or that story is not a standard. You could say no political discussions, that could be a standard. But not some individual story like the Hunter Biden story.

A standard (French: Norme, German: Norm) is a technical document designed to be used as a rule, guideline or definition. It is a consensus-built, repeatable way of doing something.

Next week say a story breaks from a News Paper and its about Biden family hidden money overseas. Banning that story from your site is making you a publisher. Banning talk about violence to said family would be a standard.

So "No Nazi memes" is a standard but "No talking about Hunter Biden Corruption" isn't? They both seem very topic specific.

 

[GOPerfect]

Me, I am sickened by all of this. I am sickened first at the House for writing this BULLSHIT bill. I am secondly sickened by the Senate going along with it.

I am very sickened and quite sad that Trump signed it. I do not know if they would have overridden his veto, too me, makes no difference. He should have said no.

I hope this added debt tosses the US government over financially. I really do. I hope that this is the straw that breaks the back of the camel and of the American people.

None of this should be happening. There should be no shutdowns, no lock downs and no direct or indirect payments of any kind.

we as a Nation cannot sustain the road that we are on. We can not continue to spend without a firm replenishment of dollars. We cannot keep these lock downs going.

We cannot allow the election frauds to go on. We cannot afford to live life like all is well. My Nation is in serious crisis and we are on the verge of absolute collapse.

This is not a Right or a left thing. This is not a White or black thing. This is not about Trump or Biden. We are in a serious mess and I feel if these programs continue, we will end....

 

[drowhawk]

Me, I am sickened by all of this. I am sickened first at the House for writing this BULLSHIT bill. I am secondly sickened by the Senate going along with it.

I am very sickened and quite sad that Trump signed it. I do not know if they would have overridden his veto, too me, makes no difference. He should have said no.

I hope this added debt tosses the US government over financially. I really do. I hope that this is the straw that breaks the back of the camel and of the American people.

None of this should be happening. There should be no shutdowns, no lock downs and no direct or indirect payments of any kind.

we as a Nation cannot sustain the road that we are on. We can not continue to spend without a firm replenishment of dollars. We cannot keep these lock downs going.

We cannot allow the election frauds to go on. We cannot afford to live life like all is well. My Nation is in serious crisis and we are on the verge of absolute collapse.

This is not a Right or a left thing. This is not a White or black thing. This is not about Trump or Biden. We are in a serious mess and I feel if these programs continue, we will end....

For the most part, I agree. As someone I would consider loyal to Trump, you should be enraged. He promised you that we'd never have this wasteful spending again. And yet, after only a few days, he caved. So much for the "art of the deal," eh?

I hope you can see now if only for a brief moment, why people like myself refuse to participate in the duopoly. We're tired of repeating history over and over again. We're tired of hearing, "this time is different." I think Trump lost a lot of his support by signing that bill and I think it will hurt the GOP's chances in GA. Rightfully so, too.

 

[GOPerfect]

For the most part, I agree. As someone I would consider loyal to Trump, you should be enraged. He promised you that we'd never have this wasteful spending again. And yet, after only a few days, he caved. So much for the "art of the deal," eh?

I hope you can see now if only for a brief moment, why people like myself refuse to participate in the duopoly. We're tired of repeating history over and over again. We're tired of hearing, "this time is different." I think Trump lost a lot of his support by signing that bill and I think it will hurt the GOP's chances in GA. Rightfully so, too.

I do, I think it sucks. I will pay attention to all of the details in the next couple of days. There may be some things that we are not aware of, I doubt it though.

I would like to know exactly what he was thinking when he signed this shit.

I am a very patient person in regards to politics. I will see if more is to come.

I will stand by him though, still. If he does not stay in January, I will still know that he was one of the greatest Presidents in a very, very long time.

Yeah, I am a cheerleader to the end....

 

[GOPerfect]

My family is of the most important entity in my life, My Country is a close second. My loyalty is near tied between the two. My loyalty to any President is not in the top five for me.

My nation way before my President.

 

[Steal2B]

My family is of the most important entity in my life, My Country is a close second. My loyalty is near tied between the two. My loyalty to any President is not in the top five for me.

My nation way before my President.

 

[spat]

So then if they can create a "No Nazi memes" standard then they can create a standard that says, "No discussing possible Hunter Biden corruption". Now we're right back at square one, no one can talk about it on their platform.... as long as they publish a "standard" regarding it, they can filter.... just like now.

The difference is that they have to explicitly say "no hunter biden stuff".

They can't hide behind "community standards" they have to openly admit their biases.

I wouldn't expect a site run by the Democratic party to tolerate someone running Republican campaign ads, but they have to explicitly say that.

That also means that if a site says "no fake news" then they need to be prepared to defend, in court, their classification.

If they say "no hunter biden stories" as a matter of policy, that's easy.

If they try to hide behind "no fake news" though, then taking down true hunter biden stuff claiming it is "fake news" jeopardizes their "neutral platform" standing.

That also means their "independent fact checkers" would need some serious liability insurance, and would have to put some serious effort into really being fair.

 

[SonOfSun]

The difference is that they have to explicitly say "no hunter biden stuff".

They can't hide behind "community standards" they have to openly admit their biases.

I wouldn't expect a site run by the Democratic party to tolerate someone running Republican campaign ads, but they have to explicitly say that.

That also means that if a site says "no fake news" then they need to be prepared to defend, in court, their classification.

If they say "no hunter biden stories" as a matter of policy, that's easy.

If they try to hide behind "no fake news" though, then taking down true hunter biden stuff claiming it is "fake news" jeopardizes their "neutral platform" standing.

That also means their "independent fact checkers" would need some serious liability insurance, and would have to put some serious effort into really being fair.

So if I understand your position, it's more of a "full disclosure required to filter" type thing than anything else?

If that's the case I can understand that position. Filter as you like but be open about it.

 

[spat]

Me, I am sickened by all of this. I am sickened first at the House for writing this BULLSHIT bill. I am secondly sickened by the Senate going along with it.

I am very sickened and quite sad that Trump signed it. I do not know if they would have overridden his veto, too me, makes no difference. He should have said no.

I hope this added debt tosses the US government over financially. I really do. I hope that this is the straw that breaks the back of the camel and of the American people.

None of this should be happening. There should be no shutdowns, no lock downs and no direct or indirect payments of any kind.

we as a Nation cannot sustain the road that we are on. We can not continue to spend without a firm replenishment of dollars. We cannot keep these lock downs going.

We cannot allow the election frauds to go on. We cannot afford to live life like all is well. My Nation is in serious crisis and we are on the verge of absolute collapse.

This is not a Right or a left thing. This is not a White or black thing. This is not about Trump or Biden. We are in a serious mess and I feel if these programs continue, we will end....

My understanding of the way this works with the way Trump "redlined" parts is that they may be able to force congress to vote again to specifically reauthorize just those parts.

So, now they won't be voting on the whole bill, they will *just* be voting on the pork.

That will make them individually take a stand, they can't hide behind "well, I had to give pakistani gender studies a billion dollars in order to get Americans the relief they needed". They are voting on *just* those red lined items.

They can avoid a vote altogether and then the money gets spent, but it could allow Republicans in congress to make the Dems justify all that pork.

 

[spat]

So if I understand your position, it's more of a "full disclosure required to filter" type thing than anything else?

If that's the case I can understand that position. Filter as you like but be open about it.

Basically.

That and you must actually adhere to the policy you publicly claim to have, and it must be a *real* policy, not some ill defined "we know it when we see it" crap.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Trump Uses Impoundment Control Act to Demand Payments Increase to $2,000

www.theepochtimes.com

 

[Robin]

Sorely let down.
Robin

 

[Saltwater60]

A couple of topics being discussed here. First Trump should NOT have signed this bill. Its loaded with PORK. I think the reason he caved was he was convinced it would effect the GA senate Race. As long as the two current senators from GA voted for it I don't think it would have . But he was convinced it would. That is my GUESS WHY he signed such an awful spending package.

Now section 230. Twitter and the like would have to STOP censoring to keep from being deemed a publisher which would make them libel for content. As long as they stopped censoring they would be fine. Ending 230 would be a good thing for people like us.

I agree that’s why he signed it. I disagree and think it would have effected the GA senate race and that’s possibly why the senate will pass the 2000 amount. If not they will be seen as heartless and grouped as one.

 

[Saltwater60]

House just singed and agreed to $2,000 checks. Now it’s in the senate and Republicans hands. If they say no it’s all going democrat for at least two years and the country GOPERFECT loves will be no more. Nothing against you GP I love the USA as well. If Biden trashes it I will make plans to leave the USA when I retire or before then if I can.

 

[Blimey]

I will say that if the GOP refuses to play ball with upping the direct payments from $600 to $2,000, they are going to F themselves even harder in the GA senate races than if Trump had just vetoed. People are going to look at the GOP as being the reason they got screwed out of the extra gov't money. EVERY single Republican I've talked to in the past few days wants the larger direct payments. Obviously the Dems wanted it all along.

This is the problem with gov't money. You can't just give $1200 as a "temporary" relief and then spend 9 months arguing over how much money to give to Israel and come back to the American people with $600 checks. People got that $1200 in March. Now they want more because they were told it was "temporary" and that "more was coming."

Probably true. I’m just reeling at the idea that everyone will get this. It’s beyond reason.

Many people’s incomes are up since last year. Is this to stimulate the economy which in theory we could do by having “free”’money every month or is it to help people out? I dare so most receiving this money don’t need it at all. Deficits have to matter. So this is another $200B plus I’m guessing?

 

[SonOfSun]

Probably true. I’m just reeling at the idea that everyone will get this. It’s beyond reason.

Many people’s incomes are up since last year. Is this to stimulate the economy which in theory we could do by having “free”’money every month or is it to help people out? I dare so most receiving this money don’t need it at all. Deficits have to matter. So this is another $200B plus I’m guessing?

You're close for a fast guess

2019 us population estimate. 209 million people 18+

2019 Percentage of population making 75/150K+ 18.6%

For spitball accuracy numbers, 170 ish million adults would qualify for the extra $1400. So about 238 Billion more. Give or take.