Cooling hot barrels while shooting

[Cleck]

I'm going to be doing some shooting this weekend and with a cheaper gun, I was wondering if there's any proven methods to keep the barrel cool so I can shoot longer or at least shoot a few shots and not have them go everywhere.

I heard about standing the rifle on the butt, letting the smoke/heat escape the barrel like a chimney, and I was thinking of having a cool towel to drape over the barrel after a few shots.

Are these effective? Is it ok to cool the barrel w/ a towel like that? Will it warp the cheaper Savage barrel?

What do you do, what do you think?

 

[MilesTeg]

I make sure to leave the action open. I'm sure this helps but how much I'm unsure of.

 

[Magnus]

You can always be the first to invent a water cooled long gun. Using heat transfer around parts of the barrel. I also think the type of long gun and barrel material make a diff.

 

[Podmonkey]

The best method is to bring a few other guns to switch to when one gets too hot.
I'll shoot my AR till I can't stand to hold onto it any longer then I'll shoot pistol, load mags and prep/hang targets, switch to the 10/22 ect.

 

[Catskillkid]

Do as the buffalo hunters did and urinate on your barrel.

Keeping Your Rifle Barrel Cool

 

[Mosinitis]

Avoid rapid fire. It also contributes to throat erosion and shortens barrel life.

 

[Cleck]

Do as the buffalo hunters did and urinate on your barrel.

Keeping Your Rifle Barrel Cool

Hahaha, I read about that, I was gonna spare the others

So, I will have other guns there, that won't be a problem. No issues with the towels then?

No idea if opening the bolt will help, but it could give the gas and heat another route to escape from?

 

[Airborneguy]

For AR's at least:

Caldwell® Accumax AR-15 Barrel Cooler : Cabela's

 

[@thewheels]

I leave the action open and switch to another gun every couple of magazines.

 

[Kent Goldings]

I usually let the barrel cool between shots. I also limit the number of rounds to 30 to 45.

 

[Cleck]

For AR's at least:

Caldwell® Accumax AR-15 Barrel Cooler : Cabela's

Seems gimmicky, but also seems like it would work. I like it.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Bring a pipe and put it around the barrel. The pipe will suck up all the heat.

 

[ProgSpear]

Only shoot when it's raining.

 

[squib]

Shoot underwater unless it's an AR. Over the Beach Test is pretty scary to watch

 

[NY Leatherneck]

If you can, remove the handguards.

 

[dsdmmat]

Can of compressed air shoot it down the barrel from the chamber end.

 

[meketrefe]

Those are all online myths w/o any logic nor foundation.

1st never fast cool a very hot barrel by using water or something like that.
Fast cooling changes the metallurgic properties of the alloy and shortens the barrel life.

Regarding cooling systems there two main methods:

A) Water

B) Air ( Cooler weather is going to help vs. Arizona dessert heat, duh!! )

Guns that are design for rapid sustained fire they are made of different alloys and designed differently to
assist with the cooling.

A gun that is not designed for long sessions of rapid fire will suffer a lot more than one that is designed
for that purpose. These guns that require caution and need more frequent cooling include most commercial rifles and carbines sold to civilians.

There are things that one can do to assist to the cooling to a degree like cooling fins, fluting,
carbon fiber wrapped barrels, etc.. but the limits of those guns are lower than the military ones designed
for sustained fire.

Bench rest competitors use aluminum dissipators and battery powered fans to help with the cooling
between sessions. These are better than nothing but they can be cumbersome and if the heat build up gets
bad then nothing but time is going to be needed.

JP dissipator

The best thing is to find out what your barrel and caliber is capable to sustain
w/o getting into dangerous temperatures that will impact your accuracy not just
in the short term but in the long term. When you hear the term burning your barrel
it doesn't mean that you actually burn it, but it might put irrecoverable stresses
on the alloy, from which it might never recover.

This happens much sooner than the point of failure. Hard to do with a bolt actin but
even if one doesn't get the barrel red hot it doesn't mean it is not damaged.

I think a better approach to very rapid fire is to shoot less and hit more.
More times than not less bullets means more contact with a good marksman
who that takes his/her time.

In the marines you take your time to take the shots. you train hard to be
good with the rifle and as a result you need less bullets to do the job vs other
branches of the military. Less bullets = more hits.
I had to qualify for 500 meters with iron sights. I am not sure if this is
still done today but most Armies are putting more emphasis now in
the quality than the quantity.

 

[Podmonkey]

These guns that require caution and need more frequent cooling include most commercial rifles and carbines sold to civilians.

Oh I don't know, I think a chromed, or perhaps nitrided, Cold Hammer Forged barrel from any reputable manufacturer will hold up to abuse well and such are widely available to the civilian consumer. Which I am sure you are aware of, but for the benefit of any that read this and may not know otherwise. I routinely shoot my rifle till even a gloved hand cannot hold onto the forend any longer, the bore and rifling are fine and the accuracy has not degraded. The first few magazines are always amusing as there is copious amounts of smoke pouring out from under the rail as the oil from the last cleaning burns off.

But the OP claims it is a, and I qoute, "cheaper gun" . Really there is no need to complicate matters, the best remedy for a hot barrel is time. Load mags, rehang and mark targets or switch to another gun. It won't take over long for the barrel to cool back down to a reasonable level.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Dont worry about it. It will be fine.. unless you are trying to melt it.

I have run several mags through(rapid fire) mine and still hit 2-3 moa targets out to 300

 

[Eddie Gunks]

In the winter i stick the suppressor in the snow. Or i pour water on it.

You could do either (weather permitting).

 

[Criticalt]

I know from working with metal that rapid cooling can warp steel.
I dont know if gun makers have figured a way to stop that but I woudnt use cold water to cool it.
But again, I dont know for sure.

 

[squib]

In the winter i stick the suppressor in the snow. Or i pour water on it.

You could do either (weather permitting).

not nice to tease the peasants

 

[meketrefe]

Oh I don't know, I think a chromed, or perhaps nitrided, Cold Hammer Forged barrel from any reputable manufacturer will hold up to abuse well and such are widely available to the civilian consumer. Which I am sure you are aware of, but for the benefit of any that read this and may not know otherwise. I routinely shoot my rifle till even a gloved hand cannot hold onto the forend any longer, the bore and rifling are fine and the accuracy has not degraded. The first few magazines are always amusing as there is copious amounts of smoke pouring out from under the rail as the oil from the last cleaning burns off.

But the OP claims it is a, and I qoute, "cheaper gun" . Really there is no need to complicate matters, the best remedy for a hot barrel is time. Load mags, rehang and mark targets or switch to another gun. It won't take over long for the barrel to cool back down to a reasonable level.

When we are talking about life we refer to accuracy life and reliability. Accuracy in many military applications has a lot more tolerances
than some civilian use like if one is trying to compete in service rifle for example. Also in the military there is the requirement for more
precision for those applications that call for it like designated marksman and snipers. Reliability can be affected by erosion on the gas port that
is also going to be impacted by the chrome and the hardness of the alloy underneath.

My experience shooting both in the military and as civilian is that stainless lasts half the time of chrome lined barrels but when induced extreme heat they loose that accuracy edge sooner. Lothar Walther LW50 lasts longer than softer stainless steel. In exchange Stainless produces some of the most accurate barrels one can buy. If barrels are nicrocarburized then they are also as accurate yet erosion resistance is much higher but they foul faster for the first 2-3K rounds. Nitrocarburization is still being used in bench rest competition so this is a testament that it can be used to extend barrel life w/o compromising accuracy. Hammer forged barrels are not the most accurate barrels one can buy. They can be pretty accurate but in reality is a method to produce large amount of barrels at lower cost per unit. But they are just another method and in fact button rifled (shilen, Lothar Walter) or rifling cut (krieger among others) have been producing match winning barrels for decades.

Also hammer forged barrels like 11595-E chrome lined barrels last probably twice the life of the typical 4140 chrome lined barrels hammer forged or not.

Hammer forged chrome lined barrels are more accurate than non hammer forged barrels and it has nothing to do with cold hammer forging being better or worse but due to the way in which these barrels are chromed if the companies know what they are doing that is different story. Chome lining generally affects accuracy but less in cold forged barrels. They also tend to last longer even with the regular thickness on the lining and specially if they are a harder alloy vs. the 4140 so popular in inexpensive kits and rifles.

Then the thicker the chrome lining is, the longer it will take to show erosion. Even in barrels with double the thickness in chrome, extreme heat and sustained fire will eventually expose the metal underneath yet it will continue to be functional for the type of accuracy required by many military applications. One thing is clear, the harder underlying alloy is, the more it will contribute to that chrome to stay longer due to the heat and erosion that is specially important in the throat area and port.

I think at some point Noveske and others offered barrels cut from M249 blanks at around 450-500 dollars each.

With the M4 style tactical barrels that even after being cut form M249 blanks (SAW machine gun barrels) the dimensions and profile of the
M4 tacticool uppers does not help with heat distribution and dissipation. Even with the extra hardness and double chrome line thickness those barrels are automatically weaker because they are compromised by the minor diameter at the most critical point ahead of the chamber that has been shown many times as a single point of failure even before the gas block or tube burst.

The 1/2" threads and carbine porting of these M4 budget tacticool barrels doesn't help neither. specially those that have been cut and threaded w/o additional stresss relief that accounts for 90% of the AR15 market. Same thing about HP testing. Most simply lie. Only 3 companies do comprehensive HP testing who are Colt, FN and H&K. Everyone else is lying about compliance to the same level of standards.

Most people who question burning the barrel shooting paper dinner plates at the range call of duty style will have no problems burning a barrel and will not affect their range time fun.Same thing with some local fun matches were long shots are never required. Barrels can take some punishment, even the inexpensive ones and might run until they are smooth bores like a shotgun, but do not expect a barrel that has been abused to last the same or produce the same consistency of a barrel that has been used with more care and potentially of better quality to start with.

Even in certain military applications, when there is a doubt, the barrel is serviced. It is not unusual for a marine armorer to replace the barrel up to 3 or 4
times in the same tour even when no much fighting is happening. Why is this done? Well perhaps a waste and unnecessary but when in doubt
the fighter and marksman only deserves the best.

Nobody can answer all those questions for you, everyone has different expectations on quality and accuracy the same way also folks might
have different budgets. With uncle sam behind cost is not a problem. And it should not be, look how much it costs one single laser guided
ordinance to even consider being cheap with someone's rifle who is risking his/her life on the front.

What do you need the round and firearm for? The answer to this question answers a lot of the other questions one might have.

 

[meketrefe]

In the winter i stick the suppressor in the snow. Or i pour water on it.

You could do either (weather permitting).

cook bacon and brew some tea too? lol

 

[Eddie Gunks]

cook bacon and brew some tea too? lol

I dont wanna burn the bacon though.......

 

[kev74]

I only need one bullet, so I don't have to worry about these issues.

 

[meketrefe]

I only need one bullet, so I don't have to worry about these issues.

Yes sir! that is the correct answer!

Me too!! LOL

 

[Podmonkey]

When we are talking about life we refer to accuracy life and reliability. Accuracy in many military applications has a lot more tolerances
than some civilian use like if one is trying to compete in service rifle for example. Also in the military there is the requirement for more
precision for those applications that call for it like designated marksman and snipers. Reliability can be affected by erosion on the gas port that
is also going to be impacted by the chrome and the hardness of the alloy underneath.

My experience shooting both in the military and as civilian is that stainless lasts half the time of chrome lined barrels but when induced extreme heat they loose that accuracy edge sooner. Lothar Walther LW50 lasts longer than softer stainless steel. In exchange Stainless produces some of the most accurate barrels one can buy. If barrels are nicrocarburized then they are also as accurate yet erosion resistance is much higher but they foul faster for the first 2-3K rounds. Nitrocarburization is still being used in bench rest competition so this is a testament that it can be used to extend barrel life w/o compromising accuracy. Hammer forged barrels are not the most accurate barrels one can buy. They can be pretty accurate but in reality is a method to produce large amount of barrels at lower cost per unit. But they are just another method and in fact button rifled (shilen, Lothar Walter) or rifling cut (krieger among others) have been producing match winning barrels for decades.

Also hammer forged barrels like 11595-E chrome lined barrels last probably twice the life of the typical 4140 chrome lined barrels hammer forged or not.

Hammer forged chrome lined barrels are more accurate than non hammer forged barrels and it has nothing to do with cold hammer forging being better or worse but due to the way in which these barrels are chromed if the companies know what they are doing that is different story. Chome lining generally affects accuracy but less in cold forged barrels. They also tend to last longer even with the regular thickness on the lining and specially if they are a harder alloy vs. the 4140 so popular in inexpensive kits and rifles.

Then the thicker the chrome lining is, the longer it will take to show erosion. Even in barrels with double the thickness in chrome, extreme heat and sustained fire will eventually expose the metal underneath yet it will continue to be functional for the type of accuracy required by many military applications. One thing is clear, the harder underlying alloy is, the more it will contribute to that chrome to stay longer due to the heat and erosion that is specially important in the throat area and port.

I think at some point Noveske and others offered barrels cut from M249 blanks at around 450-500 dollars each.

With the M4 style tactical barrels that even after being cut form M249 blanks (SAW machine gun barrels) the dimensions and profile of the
M4 tacticool uppers does not help with heat distribution and dissipation. Even with the extra hardness and double chrome line thickness those barrels are automatically weaker because they are compromised by the minor diameter at the most critical point ahead of the chamber that has been shown many times as a single point of failure even before the gas block or tube burst.

The 1/2" threads and carbine porting of these M4 budget tacticool barrels doesn't help neither. specially those that have been cut and threaded w/o additional stresss relief that accounts for 90% of the AR15 market. Same thing about HP testing. Most simply lie. Only 3 companies do comprehensive HP testing who are Colt, FN and H&K. Everyone else is lying about compliance to the same level of standards.

Most people who question burning the barrel shooting paper dinner plates at the range call of duty style will have no problems burning a barrel and will not affect their range time fun.Same thing with some local fun matches were long shots are never required. Barrels can take some punishment, even the inexpensive ones and might run until they are smooth bores like a shotgun, but do not expect a barrel that has been abused to last the same or produce the same consistency of a barrel that has been used with more care and potentially of better quality to start with.

Even in certain military applications, when there is a doubt, the barrel is serviced. It is not unusual for a marine armorer to replace the barrel up to 3 or 4
times in the same tour even when no much fighting is happening. Why is this done? Well perhaps a waste and unnecessary but when in doubt
the fighter and marksman only deserves the best.

Nobody can answer all those questions for you, everyone has different expectations on quality and accuracy the same way also folks might
have different budgets. With uncle sam behind cost is not a problem. And it should not be, look how much it costs one single laser guided
ordinance to even consider being cheap with someone's rifle who is risking his/her life on the front.

What do you need the round and firearm for? The answer to this question answers a lot of the other questions one might have.

My rifle, with a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel can do just under 1 MOA 5 shot groups. How much more accuracy could anyone possibly need out of a 16" duty carbine? It can shoot better than I can as it is. Daniel Defense makes an excellent barrel, that is for certain. I have cained the living snot out of that thing too, takes it in stride, bore still looks sharp. I do take very good care of it afterward though.

 

[meketrefe]

My rifle, with a cold hammer forged chrome lined barrel can do just under 1 MOA, 5 shot groups. How much more accuracy could anyone possibly need out of a 16" duty carbine? It can shoot better than I can as it is. Daniel Defense makes an excellent barrel, that is for certain. I have cained the living snot out of that thing too, takes it in stride, bore still looks sharp. I do do take very good care of it afterward though.

That's pretty good. Don't abuse it.

 

[Mosinitis]

When barrel craps out it shows first at longer ranges. Good quality .223 AR barrel will shoot accurately up to 4000 rds, longer at short ranges.
If it is abused, all bets are off.