Denied my Sportsperson amendment!!!

[Raven20878]

You are wrong on so many levels I don't know where to begin. Also if the op takes your advice and doesn't contest his denial he will have to check off the box that askes if you have ever been denied a permit for the rest of his life.

Actually it is you who are wrong (and confused). He put in an amendment. It was the amendment that was denied, not his permit. He never has to mention it.

And a Shockwave weighs only 5 pounds. Easy to carry and much more practical than a handgun if you are really thinking woods and bears, coyotes as the OP originally stated. Look one up before you weigh in on something you don't know anything about.

 

[Raven20878]

Yeah, I'm one of those people.

And not carrying at all times because of an imaginary "law" could leave you dead. So if death outweighs the "they'll yank your permit" bogeyman nonsense then by all means, that's a choice you have to make for yourself.

Then why bother encouraging the OP to upgrade to a Sportsperson? Just get your target permit and carry outside of your restrictions. Sounds like a very logical plan (not).

 

[Raven20878]

If we dont fight every single activist judge, these laws will not be changed.
I know several people who have won appeals with the same judge who denied their restriction amendment.
I believe there are a few on this site........from Westchester even.

The only way the proper cause goes away in NY is if the Supreme Court makes it so. You guys are delusional if you think you are giving the OP good advice to contest this for a Sportsperson upgrade and that if he is successful it will change anything. It will cost him time and money and even if he succeeds, he still can't carry with any significant difference than with his target permit. And for those of you suggesting the restrictions don't mean anything, it even makes less sense for him to spend the time and money getting another "meaningless" restriction. You should be encouraging him to either ignore the restrictions or go for a full carry.

 

[BMF JK]

00 buck shot in a shockwave for animal defense ? Your limited to a short effective range for the shot to pattern effectively and then try to aim a shockwave effectively with that tight pattern ( which essentially requires the same accuracy as shooting a single projectile) ... I’ll stick to my Glock 20 !

 

[togmaster]

Actually it is you who are wrong (and confused). He put in an amendment. It was the amendment that was denied, not his permit. He never has to mention it.

And a Shockwave weighs only 5 pounds. Easy to carry and much more practical than a handgun if you are really thinking woods and bears, coyotes as the OP originally stated. Look one up before you weigh in on something you don't know anything about.

Ask a lawyer about that sparky. Shock wave is old news and the op wants to carry a pistol.

 

[Darth]

Then why bother encouraging the OP to upgrade to a Sportsperson? Just get your target permit and carry outside of your restrictions. Sounds like a very logical plan (not).

I didn't?

 

[Criticalt]

The only way the proper cause goes away in NY is if the Supreme Court makes it so. You guys are delusional if you think you are giving the OP good advice to contest this for a Sportsperson upgrade and that if he is successful it will change anything. It will cost him time and money and even if he succeeds, he still can't carry with any significant difference than with his target permit. And for those of you suggesting the restrictions don't mean anything, it even makes less sense for him to spend the time and money getting another "meaningless" restriction. You should be encouraging him to either ignore the restrictions or go for a full carry.

I dont give a shit what he wants to "upgrade" to...sportsman, unrestricted......
Many, many, many people get denied restriction amendments, then fight in court and win....period.
If this is what he wants, and he can afford it, he should fight for his rights.
The lawyer he talked to is one of the best in the state and she didnt blow him off.

As far as the Shockwave advice.....have you ever been in the woods?
Hiking, camping, collecting wood......that gun would be near useless.
30 yards away at camp while youre gathering wood isnt going to help if you need it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Not to mention there are many times when carrying a shotgun could cause you problems.

1. During a hunting season with no license.
2. During bow season.
3. When just hiking with other hikers. Oh. Here comes that bearded dude with the shotgun again. On a date going hiking with a brand new girl. Why did you bring a shotgun?
4. When in the woods with your kid's boyscout troop. I'm sorry mister. You can't bring that shotgun.
5. When you just don't want to be bothered with people looking at you. A handgun is out of sight and out of mind.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

5. When you just don't want to be bothered with people looking at you. A handgun is out if sight and out of mind.

Most people don't want to look at me anyway. So I'm out of sight out of mind by default, lol.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Not to mention there are many times when carrying a shotgun could cause you problems.

1. During a hunting season with no license.
2. During bow season.
3. When just hiking with other hikers. Oh. Here comes that bearded dude with the shotgun again. On a date going hiking with a brand new girl. Why did you bring a shotgun?
4. When in the woods with your kid's boyscout troop. I'm sorry mister. You can't bring that shotgun.
5. When you just don't want to be bothered with people looking at you. A handgun is out if sight and out of mind.

Well technically its not a shotgun

 

[Marine Cpl]

Well technically its not a shotgun

It's a shotgun just like and an AR pistol is carbine and a Republican is a Democrat. They are all wearing sheep's clothing.

 

[misunderestimated]

I am sorry for your troubles
, this is almost laughable, Imagine where we will be in 5 years, What part of shall not be infringed don't they get.

The sheep of New York , When is when

PS sportsman is not an UPGRADE its a restrictions a matter of fact all of them are restrictions.THEY DONT WANT US ARMED I have a co workers in Sullivan or Dutches county he and his wife never handled Hand guns, and they both were issued FULL Carry with there pistol permits. The closer we get to the city the more unreasonable personal Agenda Judges we have Enforcing there personal feel good rules and regulations.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I am sorry for your troubles
, this is almost laughable, Imagine where we will be in 5 years, What part of shall not be infringed don't they get.

The sheep of New York , When is when

PS sportsman is not an UPGRADE its a restrictions a matter of fact all of them are restrictions.THEY DONT WANT US ARMED I have a co workers in Sullivan or Dutches county he and his wife never handled Hand guns, and they both were issued FULL Carry with there pistol permits. The closer we get to the city the more unreasonable personal Agenda Judges we have Enforcing there personal feel good rules and regulations.

Being close to the city means nothing, look up tompkins county, their paperwork specifically says most licenses will only be restricted to hunting and target shooting.

 

[wizrd]

This is so wrong, on so many counts -- we 'townspeople' should be swarming outside this judges home with torches & pitchforks....and...

 

[Edwardteach72]

This is so wrong, on so many counts -- we 'townspeople' should be swarming outside this judges home with torches & pitchforks....and...

This, this right here, thank you, thank you for not being one of those who try and say this is (one of the few that isnt) Cuomos fault

 

[Darth]

Not to mention there are many times when carrying a shotgun could cause you problems.

1. During a hunting season with no license.
2. During bow season.
3. When just hiking with other hikers. Oh. Here comes that bearded dude with the shotgun again. On a date going hiking with a brand new girl. Why did you bring a shotgun?
4. When in the woods with your kid's boyscout troop. I'm sorry mister. You can't bring that shotgun.
5. When you just don't want to be bothered with people looking at you. A handgun is out of sight and out of mind.

 

[Raven20878]

Ask a lawyer about that sparky. Shock wave is old news and the op wants to carry a pistol.

Don't have to. I am one.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Don't have to. I am one.

 

[Raven20878]

Ask a lawyer about that sparky. Shock wave is old news and the op wants to carry a pistol.

The denial of an amendment is not the same as a denial of a permit. If you are denied a request to remove a restriction or to change a restriction you are not required to report that to anyone on any other license application. It is amazing to me how much misinformation is propagated on this site by folks who think they know what they are talking about but actually are either confused or just ignorant of facts.

 

[Edwardteach72]

The denial of an amendment is not the same as a denial of a permit. If you are denied a request to remove a restriction or to change a restriction you are not required to report that to anyone on any other license application. It is amazing to me how much misinformation is propagated on this site by folks who think they know what they are talking about but actually are either confused or just ignorant of facts.

(I use this as my cheers because I love above post emoji)

 

[togmaster]

Don't have to. I am one.

One who gives the advice to carry a shotgun when asked about a pistol license. How many times did it take you to get to pass the bar?

 

[togmaster]

The denial of an amendment is not the same as a denial of a permit. If you are denied a request to remove a restriction or to change a restriction you are not required to report that to anyone on any other license application. It is amazing to me how much misinformation is propagated on this site by folks who think they know what they are talking about but actually are either confused or just ignorant of facts.

Its the denial of an application for a license. There is no confusion here. I don't post from second hand information. Only personal experience.

 

[Edwardteach72]

One who gives the advice to carry a shotgun when asked about a pistol license. How many times did it take you to get to pass the bar?

50% agree with this. Cause at the same time no license is needed for a "firearm" remember the shockwave isnt a shotgun

 

[Raven20878]

I dont give a shit what he wants to "upgrade" to...sportsman, unrestricted......
Many, many, many people get denied restriction amendments, then fight in court and win....period.
If this is what he wants, and he can afford it, he should fight for his rights.
The lawyer he talked to is one of the best in the state and she didnt blow him off.

As far as the Shockwave advice.....have you ever been in the woods?
Hiking, camping, collecting wood......that gun would be near useless.
30 yards away at camp while youre gathering wood isnt going to help if you need it.

I never said he can't "fight for his rights" if he wants to. I just gave him my opinion. Fighting for a Sportsperson restriction, at the end of the day, may not be worth his time and money. If he wants to spend that time and money just to prove a point, then that is his choice. It will not move the needle an inch on 2A rights in NY whether he wins or loses. NY will still use proper cause in an arbitrary way and judges will still be able to impose restrictions and deny requests to have them removed as they see fit. The only thing that will change this is a decision at the appellate or Supreme Court level that declares proper cause unconstitutional. This happened at the appellate level in DC. If the OP (or any of you) really want to change this in NY (and across the US for other may issue States), take your denial cases all the way through the appellate process and beyond. Put your time and money where your mouth is.

 

[togmaster]

50% agree with this. Cause at the same time no license is needed for a "firearm" remember the shockwave isnt a shotgun

The OP wants to carry a hand gun. The reason for this thread.

 

[Edwardteach72]

The OP wants to carry a hand gun. The reason for this thread.

No I 100% agree, and who ever started bringing in the shockwave first makes no sense. Granted if my options are nothing orrr... shockwave.. yes shockwave.

But to offer the shockwave as a better option no sorry a handgun would be the best option for what OP is looking for and the shockwave would actually be more of a hindrance (see some of what @Willjr75 said)

 

[Raven20878]

Its the denial of an application for a license. There is no confusion here. I don't post from second hand information. Only personal experience.

You are wrong. He already had his license. He was not applying for a new license. He filed an amendment to change a restriction. Unless the letter from the judge resulted in the revocation of his current license then this is not a denial of a license. When you make an application for a pistol license you are asked whether you were ever denied a pistol permit in that State or another State. You are not asked whether or not you were denied a request to change a restriction. Again, you are confused and you are stating things as facts that are not correct. I suggest you consult an attorney, and if you have already done so and they told you a denial of a request for a change in restriction is the same as a denial of an application for a license then I suggest you find another attorney.

 

[nortatoga]

 

[Raven20878]

One who gives the advice to carry a shotgun when asked about a pistol license. How many times did it take you to get to pass the bar?

Passed the bar on the first try thank you.

OP stated his reason for wanting the Sportsperson restriction was to protect his family from bears, coyotes and mountain lions (doubt he would see any mountain lions in NY) while hiking and camping. A 9mm handgun would not be very effective against any of those threats except that it will make a big bang and hopefully scare them off. A shotgun would make a louder bang and require less precision to effect the same outcome. But let's face it, the OP doesn't really need the restriction change for that purpose. He wants the restriction change so he can carry more often than just to the range and back. The judges see through this and that is why Sportsperson is no longer on the Westchester Pistol website and why his request for a restriction change was denied. There was no real "proper cause" justification that the OP was at any greater risk than the general population. That is the standard in Westchester, like it or not, and it has been supported by court decisions. Bottom line is that the judges can make whatever determination they like with respect to imposing restrictions as they, wait for it, INVENTED THE RESTRICTIONS. The judges decisions can be challenged, and the OP is free to do that. In some cases the judges will change their decision based on the challenge. In others, they don't. If the OP wants to take the time and pay the money to attempt to change the mind of the judge he is free to do that. I was simply pointing out to him that there are alternatives that would be far less costly both in time and money and that Sportsperson in reality is not much different than the restriction he currently has. He should however, have NO fear that if he doesn't fight this, he risks having a denial of permit on his record. That is just not true despite how much you apparently believe it is and how much you would like it to be so. Facts are important.

 

[Raven20878]

Its the denial of an application for a license. There is no confusion here. I don't post from second hand information. Only personal experience.

Again, just for the sake of folks who may read this and be as confused as the person who wrote it, a request for amendment to an existing pistol license is not considered an application for a pistol license. If the amendment is denied it has no impact on your current license, unless in the denial letter the judge specifically revokes or suspends your current license. In the case of the OP, he stated he already has a Target restriction on his current license. His denial for a change of restriction to Sportsperson has no effect on his current license and therefore he has never been denied A LICENSE OR PERMIT. I hope this clarifies things...at least one can hope.