Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. The law is stupidly written.
Dude open carrying. nobody freaked out!
- Thread starter Target
- Start date
I was being facetious. But if I get arrested this fall for openly carrying my handgun during a hunt, I'll be sure to let everyone know...
Different Drummer
.44 mag
OK, I understand completely what is being said in the bold type. I am guessing it is quoted from somewhere.
It begins by saying that a Judge "statutorily" ( meaning by statute ) has the power to of his own will or desire (Sua Sponte) to "revoke or cancel a license".
It then qualifies the differences that exist between NYC, Nassau and Suffolk Counties with the rest of the counties in the State.
The last sentence says that the extraordinary power reposed ( rested in ) a licensing officer solely supports respondents ( the Judge ) determination to restrict the scope of petitioners (applicant or license holder's ) license.
So, where is the bold print from? It seems to use the word "Statutorily" to indicate by statute or law. I am trying to find the law that supports what is in Bold Type.
Dinkus the Stinkus
.44 mag
Based on the pistol permit class I took open carry of a handgun is illegal always but based on this thread it isn't always enforced.
I also have heard that open carry of a pistol is legal on your own property but am not sure if that's only within your home or anywhere on your property. Remember your property stops before the road, right of ways and such..
I also have heard that open carry of a pistol is legal on your own property but am not sure if that's only within your home or anywhere on your property. Remember your property stops before the road, right of ways and such..
This is the same thing explained to me in my permit class.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm sure you won't.I was being facetious. But if I get arrested this fall for openly carrying my handgun during a hunt, I'll be sure to let everyone know...
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It's not. But as I've said, who's going to bother you on your own property? No one.
Target
6.5 Creedmoor
I just got back from the gas station / convenience store and the dude was there again ( getting a 12 pack and a Tall Boy to go).
Once again, he was open carrying and I asked him if anyone ever gave him a hard time about it.
He says no. He collects rent on South Salina Street in Syracuse which is a shithole section of town.
Gave the impression that you'd be crazy to go there unarmed.
Says city cops see him all the time. Never had a problem.
You would not mistake him for a LEO.
It seems to be one of those things that If you look like you belong, nobody pays attention.
Once again, he was open carrying and I asked him if anyone ever gave him a hard time about it.
He says no. He collects rent on South Salina Street in Syracuse which is a shithole section of town.
Gave the impression that you'd be crazy to go there unarmed.
Says city cops see him all the time. Never had a problem.
You would not mistake him for a LEO.
It seems to be one of those things that If you look like you belong, nobody pays attention.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You OPEN carried?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
No. My point is that I or my imaginary friend got away with doing something we or you guys weren't supposed to be doing. I'm sure guys with 10/30 magazines have gotten away with test firing full 30's too. I will admit to driving with one headlight while speeding too and no one batted any eyelashes.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
A bit different but my I understand what you mean.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Just busting balls. Depends on the place though. You do that south of Albany and you might have to kiss the ground before everything gets sorted out.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I don’t go south or albany LOL.
Well actually I’m in Kingston next Thursday. Sucksssss.
Well actually I’m in Kingston next Thursday. Sucksssss.
I think the permit classes are saying open-carry is illegal simply for CYA purposes. They don't want to get in trouble if one of their students causes an incident. Legally-speaking, open-carry of a pistol is not illegal, otherwise thousands of hunters, trackers and target shooters would be charged on annual basis.
To be perfectly honest, a lot of self-proclaimed gun experts and advocacy groups have very little understanding of NY's intricate and complicated gun laws. I've seen a well known firearm advocacy group claim on their website that open carry, and possession, of any firearm on state land is illegal unless you are hunting within a regulated season....this kind of gouge is plainly false and the people who promote it haven't done their homework.
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Last post on this issue.
1. Is possession along with open or concealed carry legal without a license? Answer... No.
2. Why? Answer... You must be exempted from Penal Law 265 to be able to do so.
3. What kind of license that an average person who isn't police on or off duty or a military member in performance of their duties able to get to have an exemption to Penal Law 265 in regards to both ownership and carry? Answer... The 6th type of license labeled letter "F" in Penal Law 400 which states,"To have and carry concealed without regard to employment or place of possession by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof ;"
4. What exemptions does that type of license give you. Answer. The exemption to have (possess) and to conceal carry.
5. Does that type of license say anything in regards to exemptions to open carry? Answer... No.
6. So if no exemption to open carry is given to you with that 6th type of license, can you open carry without an exemption? Answer... No.
It's that simple.
1. Is possession along with open or concealed carry legal without a license? Answer... No.
2. Why? Answer... You must be exempted from Penal Law 265 to be able to do so.
3. What kind of license that an average person who isn't police on or off duty or a military member in performance of their duties able to get to have an exemption to Penal Law 265 in regards to both ownership and carry? Answer... The 6th type of license labeled letter "F" in Penal Law 400 which states,"To have and carry concealed without regard to employment or place of possession by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof ;"
4. What exemptions does that type of license give you. Answer. The exemption to have (possess) and to conceal carry.
5. Does that type of license say anything in regards to exemptions to open carry? Answer... No.
6. So if no exemption to open carry is given to you with that 6th type of license, can you open carry without an exemption? Answer... No.
It's that simple.
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I’m open carrying right now.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Good.
8. "Possess" means to have physical possession or otherwise to exercise dominion or control over tangible property.
I think possess is the word in question. Because you posses and CC. I can do this and this. Open carrying would be posessing, hunting would be possessing, target shooting be possessing.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Why isn't concealed carry possession then?
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I'm open containering right now.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
Try explaining to a LEO, State's AG, judge, jury, etc, ad nauseam, how "Possession" equates to open carry in penal law. It's isn't going to end well.
Just like traffic laws, some things are overlooked. Many times in this instance we just have conservation LEOs that have our backs.
Just like traffic laws, some things are overlooked. Many times in this instance we just have conservation LEOs that have our backs.
This is the contradiction that @Willjr75 refuses to acknowledge.
How can someone abide by this implied 'no open-carry' law when they are hunting and/or target shooting? Handgun hunting is legal. Handgun target shooting is legal. Open-carry is required for both. Open carry is legal.
There are no exemptions for any of those activities built into Law 400.00. They are legal because there is now law which states otherwise, not even Law 265.00. As @Willjr75 said earlier:
spat
.700 Nitro Express
It says you may possess, and you may conceal carry.
The only thing you could be charged with under PL265 is possession, which your permit exempts you from.
Ergo, it's legal.
Your mistake is that you read it as if it said "you may possess while carrying concealed", which it clearly does not.
It clearly says "you may possess and carry concealed".
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FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
I read it as you may have=own, and carry concealed=no explanation there. The law states you can own a handgun, and also stating you can carry concealed. It's a long shot stating "Have" in PL400 means open carry.
But oddly enough, my permit says "License To Carry Pistol Is Hereby Granted". I think some others have said their's stated concealed carry.
I also went looking through Environmental Conservation Law to see if they had any input on manner of carrying during hunting, nothing there at all.
New York Consolidated Laws, Environmental Conservation Law - ENV § 11-0931 | FindLaw
But oddly enough, my permit says "License To Carry Pistol Is Hereby Granted". I think some others have said their's stated concealed carry.
I also went looking through Environmental Conservation Law to see if they had any input on manner of carrying during hunting, nothing there at all.
New York Consolidated Laws, Environmental Conservation Law - ENV § 11-0931 | FindLaw
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Have doesn't mean open carry, but nowhere in the law does it forbid open carry. It only forbids possession, which I read as possession=have.
FrankenCub
.338 Win Mag
You will never win a case against the state claiming PL400 doesn't forbid open carry no matter how great a lawyer you could find. They will say the law specifically gives permission to own or carry concealed.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
No, they will always change the charge to something unrelated, like menacing, or disturbing the peace, because they don't want to try and make that argument in court.
There *is no law* forbidding open carry, only possession.
PL 265 doesn't say anything like that, and PL 400 doesn't either.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Dictionary definitions about possession from Merriam Webster don't apply to the penal laws.
As far as the penal laws not saying anything about open carry, read and refer to post 346 or any of my previous posts or continue ignoring it and and saying the same crap over and over without disputing it because if you try to dispute it, you cannot.
Fireworks are illegal. But, but how else will you celebrate the 4th of july? It happens all the time! Celebrating the 4th of July isn't illegal! Name one arrest in my upstate county relating to fireworks on the 4th of July!
As far as the penal laws not saying anything about open carry, read and refer to post 346 or any of my previous posts or continue ignoring it and and saying the same crap over and over without disputing it because if you try to dispute it, you cannot.
Fireworks are illegal. But, but how else will you celebrate the 4th of july? It happens all the time! Celebrating the 4th of July isn't illegal! Name one arrest in my upstate county relating to fireworks on the 4th of July!
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Yes @spat the charge will be Menacing, [ S 120.14} Then the licensing officer can revoke the pistol license and then you are forbidden from possessing a hand gun! So in a round about way open carry is forbidden!
S 120.13 Menacing in the first degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the first degree when he or she
commits the crime of menacing in the second degree and has been
previously convicted of the crime of menacing in the second degree
within the preceding ten years.
Menacing in the first degree is a class E felony.
S 120.14 Menacing in the second degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the second degree when:
1. He or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person
in reasonable fear of physical injury, serious physical injury or death
by displaying a deadly weapon, dangerous instrument or what appears to
be a pistol, revolver, rifle, shotgun, machine gun or other firearm; or
2. He or she repeatedly follows a person or engages in a course of
conduct or repeatedly commits acts over a period of time intentionally
placing or attempting to place another person in reasonable fear of
physical injury, serious physical injury or death; or
3. He or she commits the crime of menacing in the third degree in
violation of that part of a duly served order of protection, or such
order which the defendant has actual knowledge of because he or she was
present in court when such order was issued, pursuant to article eight
of the family court act, section 530.12 of the criminal procedure law,
or an order of protection issued by a court of competent jurisdiction in
another state, territorial or tribal jurisdiction, which directed the
respondent or defendant to stay away from the person or persons on whose
behalf the order was issued.
Menacing in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
S 120.15 Menacing in the third degree.
A person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical
menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another
person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical
injury.
Menacing in the third degree is a class B misdemeanor.