Honest Question About Revolvers

[71velle]

IMO the j-frame is still a viable carry gun. On paper 5 rounds is not a lot by any means, but probably enough to get out of a tight spot. The small revolver fits in pants pockets well. A big plus is that it can be carried in a coat pocket without a holster (I hear the flames coming now). The long heavy trigger wont be pulled on accident and can shoot from inside the pocket without jamming. Also, in a tight combat situation there is no slide to be pushed out of battery.

But when carrying iwb an auto is hard to beat, with so many compact reliable choices.

 

[spat]

If you can't rack a glock slide, you're going to have a bad time pulling a 12 pound revolver trigger with one finger. I think the reliability does come up big though. Pull trigger, didn't go bang. Pull it again. With an automatic the whole tap rack bang thing comes in to play and there's a least a few videos of convenience store owners dying while racking their slide. Now that we have very good factory self defense ammo available however, the point becomes less of an advantage.

It's a lot easier to pull a heavy trigger single handed than it is to rack a slide for instance.

 

[Podmonkey]

It's a lot easier to pull a heavy trigger single handed than it is to rack a slide for instance.

Actually I think while an auto can be reloaded single handed with difficulty, a revolver seems impossible to reload single handed at all.

 

[spat]

Actually I think while an auto can be reloaded single handed with difficulty, a revolver seems impossible to reload single handed at all.

Both platforms have benefits and detriments for sure, and on balance I think the semi is best most of the time. Just pointing out one of the cases where the revolver wins. Ultimately its a combination of personal preference and what circumstances you expect to run into most often.

Certainly anything where reloading comes into play the semi wins, Outside NYS, by the time you need to even think about reloading your full sized glock, you will have already had to reload your revolver twice. The revolver wins in a short engagement with only a couple shots fired in adverse conditions.

 

[Criticalt]

I disagree. For the most part, 1 to 3 shots is all that's needed. I can't argue with you there. But there are situations you can get yourself into that you'd curse yourself for bringing a knife to a gunfight.

For example, you are trapped in a bank robbery gone bad that they have now decided to kill hostages after being surrounded.

Yes,. It is rather unlikely, but still possible. There are many situations where one is trapped and your only hope of survival is dependent on the taking down of multiple targets.

And the Russians might attack, ninjas may surround me, Rambo may attack me in Walmart......
Im not overly paranoid. I carry a gun for that little edge over the average non carrier.
Theres a 99% chance ill never use my gun. In that 1 instance theres a 99% chance what you said wont happen......Those are pretty good odds.
I could wear a flack jacket, carry 3 guns, pepper spray and a Bowie knife, but id rather just live pretty safe until my day comes.

 

[Marine Cpl]

.357 magnum, the ultimate defensive caliber

If a .38 Special, 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Sig, and .357 Magnum in a FMJ configuration all have complete passthroughs on a human body and in a HP configuration all penetrate the same length, how is the .357 Magnum the ultimate caliber if it's the same diameter as each aforementioned caliber?

 

[Podmonkey]

If a .38 Special, 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Sig, and .357 Magnum in a FMJ configuration all have complete passthroughs on a human body and in a HP configuration all penetrate the same length, how is the .357 Magnum the ultimate caliber if it's the same diameter as each aforementioned caliber?

Because reasons.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And the Russians might attack, ninjas may surround me, Rambo may attack me in Walmart......
Im not overly paranoid. I carry a gun for that little edge over the average non carrier.
Theres a 99% chance ill never use my gun. In that 1 instance theres a 99% chance what you said wont happen......Those are pretty good odds.
I could wear a flack jacket, carry 3 guns, pepper spray and a Bowie knife, but id rather just live pretty safe until my day comes.

Come on dude. That's ridiculous. Most cops never fire their Glocks once yet it would be foolish to outfit them with 5 shot magazines.

Hell, when deployed, I never fired my rifle. That doesn't mean I should have carried only a revolver when tasked with convoy security.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Because reasons.

I'm waiting!

 

[Podmonkey]

I'm waiting!

Because elephants have long noses. Its been a long day lemme alone dude.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Because elephants have long noses. Its been a long day lemme alone dude.

 

[Criticalt]

Come on dude. That's ridiculous. Most cops never fire their Glocks once yet it would be foolish to outfit them with 5 shot magazines.

Hell, when deployed, I never fired my rifle. That doesn't mean I should have carried only a revolver when tasked with convoy security.

I did 3 combat tours in Afghanistan and fired my weapon thousands of times and I know how fire fights work and know how to stay calm and execute.
If you cant get it done in 5-6, you aint getting it done in 10. Five well placed shots are better than 30 bad ones.
There are guys who can take out 2 armed thugs with ZERO rounds, believe it.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

And now we've made @JaguarJaguarGolf feel bad, but it happens to the best of us.

I've never had your situation, but one time I had my Glock under my towel as I went in the hot tub, forgot I had it there, and had it hit the deck.

We all make mistakes.

Don't worry lads, I'm OK. If I wasn't up to admitting the stupid things that have happened to me I wouldn't tell you about them. I do learn by my mistakes. I hope some of you learn from my mistakes. Some people are not as fortunate as I, they do not live through their mistakes. I did sand down the magazine release a bit on my Glock, but I do like the European heel magazine release on my P-1.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I did 3 combat tours in Afghanistan and fired my weapon thousands of times and I know how fire fights work and know how to stay calm and execute.
If you cant get it done in 5-6, you aint getting it done in 10. Five well placed shots are better than 30 bad ones.
There are guys who can take out 2 armed thugs with ZERO rounds, believe it.

So cops should only carry 5?

 

[Criticalt]

So cops should only carry 5?

I could really care less what they carry, thats on them.

 

[HighlandLofts]

And where is @HighlandLofts isn't he the "WheelGun Master"?? Or I'm confusing him with someone else that posts the bazillion revolvers on a wood table

Man this thread really took off, I don't know about being the "Wheel Gun Master" but I do have a few with a few more on the want list.

Personally I prefer my Smith 642 as my every day carry gun over anything else I have and I have a LOT TO CHOOSE FROM. The 642 with the internal hammer stays clean inside from off of the shit that ends up in my right front pocket. When I was working 95 to 105 hours a week at the dairy farm I use to get a lot of hay chaft in my pocket and it always managed to litter the pocket sleve pretty bad. If I carried a semi or a J-Frame with an exposed hammer I would guarantee they would adventually jam up.
The 642 just keeps on shooting with out any failures what so ever.
I started working for a friend building houses so I get a lot of sawdust in my pockets, never a problem with the 642.
Plus I can shoot it really decent.

Depending on where I go depends on an additional handgun. When I go up in the Cascade Mountains for any reason what so ever I carry my Glock 20 - 10mm with the fifteen round magazine with two additional magazines.People run in to Meth Cooking Operations A LOT up there. In a case like that you want a lot of shots with some ASS ENOUGH to do business.

If I go out to dinner or a movie I'll take my Colt Combat Commander or my 40 caliber Walther PPS.

As always my 642 is in my right front pocket.

Lately I have been open carrying, when I do I like to carry my 6" 357 GP100 or my 357 Rossi 971, or my 327 Fed. mag SP101 of my Rossi 720 - 44spl, the list goes on & on.

They are all good it just depends on your personal likes & dislikes.

Here is a target from a couple of weeks ago, the target o the right is mine. The top shots are from my 357 Redhawk, the shots on the bottom are from my 357 GP100.
The ammo used was a hodge-podge of old ammo I had.

The target on the left is from my friend I went shooting with.

As you can see he would definatly benifit with a HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINE. Mean while I'd do go with of my wheel guns.


When I shoot, i take it seriously. If I can't hit my target with a certain gun it leaves the stable. I like the feeling of being confident with my choice of weapons. If you can't shoot straight, go high capacity.


By the way I'll have to get a new group picture of my handgun collection for you guys to drool over. I have a few decent ones.

 

[Exile Machine]

I conceal carry a S&W 460XVR (8 3/8" barrel) in a Kenai chest rig. 5 shots of .460 S&W Magnum should be enough for just about any bad situation.
-Mark

 

[Jmac00]

I only have one revolver, a 629 Classic with a 6" bll, I hunt with it mostly as it's hard to hide a big 4 pound gun even in a shoulder rig.

But the bottom line is this: I CAN MISS JUST AS FAST WITH A WHEEL GUN AS I CAN WITH A SEMI-AUTO

 

[NY Leatherneck]

IMO, I always felt I shoot a revolver better. Also, I like the fact that my 357 can shoot 38spcl & +P as well as my 44Mag can shoot 44spcl. More options. I like the 100% brass recovery of them as well. Not to say I dont like the feel of my 1911 on my side occsssionally but that is usually in the winter where clothing aids in concealability. If i feel a potential I'll be in an undesireable location, a speed loader is nearby me or in my pocket. Fuck, lets get some porn on this thread.

 

[HighlandLofts]

Nothing like good "GUN PORN"




Step a side JACK!

 

[nortatoga]

Who really needs 10 rounds? LOL!!!

 

[ECU Pirates]

If a .38 Special, 9mm, .38 Super, .357 Sig, and .357 Magnum in a FMJ configuration all have complete passthroughs on a human body and in a HP configuration all penetrate the same length, how is the .357 Magnum the ultimate caliber if it's the same diameter as each aforementioned caliber?

Why do you like the .357 sig? Frying pans and such. Same reason to like the magnum. Some also say hydrostatic shock comes into play with the .357's. The mag is also very versatile.

Your boy on performance haha....

 

[Marine Cpl]

Why do you like the .357 sig? Frying pans and such. Same reason to like the magnum. Some also say hydrostatic shock comes into play with the .357's. The mag is also very versatile.

Your boy on performance haha....

Of course I know that. Speed penetrates hard barriers. That's why I like faster calibers. Many don't know that however and think that on a body, a .357 Magnum will perform better than a caliber of the same diameter.

Some also think that in a FMJ configuration, a 9mm is better than a .380 when fired into a human body.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Of course I know that. Speed penetrates hard barriers. That's why I like faster calibers. Many don't know that however and think that on a body, a .357 Magnum will perform better than a caliber of the same diameter.

Some also think that in a FMJ configuration, a 9mm is better than a .380 when fired into a human body.

Speed also means more hydrostatic shock according to many "experts". Some say the .357 mag is fast enough to cause it meaning it will outperform a slower bullet of the same diameter.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Speed also means more hydrostatic shock according to many "experts". Some say the .357 mag is fast enough to cause it meaning it will outperform a slower bullet of the same diameter.

No. Experts have determined that the lower velocity from a pistol round doesn't produce any effect on hydrostatic shock since it doesn't stretch the tissue past the level where it tears causing the stretch to become permanent. We are only talking about a couple hundred fps differences in most cases between the calibers.

A rifle round well over 2000 fps does however. That is why you'll see a small entry and a larger exit even with a FMJ.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Hydrostatic shock is a myth according to extensive testing by the FBI after the Miami incident when they issued parameters on how a pistol round should perform.

A lot of testing was done to determine this by guys that wear lab coats and know much more than us.

I will post the link when I find it. I believe Dr. Fackler was another one who disputed the hydrostatic shock myth.

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

Well... I knew it was just a matter of time before this spiraled out of control into an all out caliber war and why the 357 sig is the best handgun round known to man.

 

[ECU Pirates]

No. Experts have determined that the lower velocity from a pistol round doesn't produce and effect on hydrostatic shock since it doesn't stretch the tissue past the level where it tears causing the stretch to become permanent.

A rifle round well over 2000 fps does however. That is why you'll see a small entry and a larger exit even with a FMJ.

Wrong. I think the Yankee Marshall must have read your posts. Some say faster pistols do in fact perform better on living bodies.

Human autopsy results have demonstrated brain hemorrhaging from fatal hits to the chest, including cases with handgun bullets.[4] Thirty-three cases of fatal penetrating chest wounds by a single bullet were selected from a much larger set by excluding all other traumatic factors, including past history.

"In self-defense, military, and law enforcement communities, opinions vary regarding the importance of remote wounding effects in ammunition design and selection. In his book on hostage rescuers, Leroy Thompson discusses the importance of hydrostatic shock in choosing a specific design of .357 Magnum and 9×19mm Parabellum bullets.[51] In Armed and Female, Paxton Quigley explains that hydrostatic shock is the real source of “stopping power.”[52] Jim Carmichael, who served as shooting editor for Outdoor Life magazine for 25 years, believes that hydrostatic shock is important to “a more immediate disabling effect” and is a key difference in the performance of .38 Special and .357 Magnum hollow point bullets.[53] In “The search for an effective police handgun,” Allen Bristow describes that police departments recognize the importance of hydrostatic shock when choosing ammunition.[54] A research group at West Point suggests handgun loads with at least 500 ft·lbf (680 J) of energy and 12 inches (300 mm) of penetration and recommends:[55]"


"It has often been asserted that hydrostatic shock and other descriptions of remote wounding effects are nothing but myths.[6] Correspondence in the journal, Neurosurgery, reviews the published evidence and concludes that the phenomenon is well-established."

 

[ECU Pirates]

Well... I knew it was just a matter of time before this spiraled out of control into an all out caliber war and why the 357 sig is the best handgun round known to man.

It reality I think most calibers 9mm and above perform about the same. I just like to mess with Will.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Wrong. I think the Yankee Marshall must have read your posts. Some say faster pistols do in fact perform better on living bodies.

Human autopsy results have demonstrated brain hemorrhaging from fatal hits to the chest, including cases with handgun bullets.[4] Thirty-three cases of fatal penetrating chest wounds by a single bullet were selected from a much larger set by excluding all other traumatic factors, including past history.

"In self-defense, military, and law enforcement communities, opinions vary regarding the importance of remote wounding effects in ammunition design and selection. In his book on hostage rescuers, Leroy Thompson discusses the importance of hydrostatic shock in choosing a specific design of .357 Magnum and 9×19mm Parabellum bullets.[51] In Armed and Female, Paxton Quigley explains that hydrostatic shock is the real source of “stopping power.”[52] Jim Carmichael, who served as shooting editor for Outdoor Life magazine for 25 years, believes that hydrostatic shock is important to “a more immediate disabling effect” and is a key difference in the performance of .38 Special and .357 Magnum hollow point bullets.[53] In “The search for an effective police handgun,” Allen Bristow describes that police departments recognize the importance of hydrostatic shock when choosing ammunition.[54] A research group at West Point suggests handgun loads with at least 500 ft·lbf (680 J) of energy and 12 inches (300 mm) of penetration and recommends:[55]"


"It has often been asserted that hydrostatic shock and other descriptions of remote wounding effects are nothing but myths.[6] Correspondence in the journal, Neurosurgery, reviews the published evidence and concludes that the phenomenon is well-established."

Let me ask you this. What will kill you? A .38 Special FMJ that will reach vitals or a .357 Magnum with a poorly designed HP bullet that expands explosively with tons of hydrostatic shock but doesn't penetrate enough?

That was the issue in the Miami shooting. The 9mm Winchester Silvertips expanded explosively into the gunman but stopped short of vitals. According to the hydrostatic shock myth, that should have put an end to him.