How Come No American Made SKS?

[Marine Cpl]

There are companies like @franklinarmory and Troy that are trying to reinvent the wheel to sell AR's to ban states. I applaud them for looking out but they aren't ideal.

Why hasn't a company made an American made SKS? Something like this would be a hit. Even in free states.

They could improve on it. Make it more lightweight. Make it able to attach optics and accessories. Make it with a pistol grip as an option. Make it in 5.56 able to accept those stripper clips. Make it in .308. Ect.

Because the fixed mag AR guns now suffer from the ability to not be able to drop the magazine during a malfunction and the having to load it in a way that it wasn't designed for by either breaking open the action or using an unreliable and expensive magazine loader. A quality stripper clip is much cheaper and easier to carry.

Something like that would sell like hot cakes!

We can buy old ones but they are old and heavy and their strippers clips don't work too well.

 

[Modean]

A couple of reasons come to mind. First, the SKS is a milled receiver so a US made update would be fairly expensive, a lot more than what ARs can be made for. The Chinese did try to make them with stamped parts, to limited success . Second, from a tactical point of view, the SKS ejecting spent cases straight up make your position pretty obvious, and make optics use fairly problematic. I own several and think they are fun to shoot, but I don’t see anyone producing new ones.

 

[IrishMick]

Mostly because the workmanship on producing the SKS would be cost prohibitive especially for an outmoded platform. They really are a well made rifle.

 

[Edwardteach72]

The SKS was so short lived, much like the M14 it was pretty much obsolete by the time it was adopted.

Only reason the SKS was popular here in the US was because it was cheap AF and plentiful not because it was great or even all that good at anything

So no real reason for a company to invest in that kind of tooling and R&D for it

 

[Marine Cpl]

So no real reason for a company to invest in that kind of tooling and R&D for it

You don't think it would sell like hot cakes in the 6 ban states? I mean it doesn't have to be an exact copy of the SKS. Something like a modified receiver of the SKS on an AR looking type of platform because we all know that looks matter here.

 

[Podmonkey]

I just don't think there is enough of a market for it to justify the expense of production.

 

[Edwardteach72]

You don't think it would sell like hot cakes in the 6 ban states? I mean it doesn't have to be an exact copy of the SKS. Something like a modified receiver of the SKS on an AR looking type of platform because we all know that looks matter here.

Sadly not the numbers that would be needed to make up for the R&D and tooling cost. Especially when you can get a featureless AR with a thordson stock for under 700, my magical number I'd say for these would be well over $1,000 probably closer to $1,300

Case in point the M1 Carbine reproductions

 

[GOYABEAN]

If it ain't broke plenty others available with a ton waiting in line

 

[Podmonkey]

American companies are struggling to produce a decent all American AK still. The market is focused on that. The next hot segment are 9mm Vityaz clones. Beyond that if there is room in the combloc clone market for a third item it would be a Dragunov clone of you ask me.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Look at the Ruger PCC for example. That tooling was profitable. Not everyone wants everything in an AR format. Look at @Podmonkey. He can build a badass AR pistol with a folding arm brace but he wants a Ruger because it's different.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Look at the Ruger PCC for example. That tooling was profitable. Not everyone wants everything in an AR format. Look at @Podmonkey. He can build a badass AR pistol with a folding arm brace but he wants a Ruger because it's different.

The pcc9 is a simple blowback design based in the 10/22 that's completely different than reverse engineering an SKS and then testing and tweaking and then getting the tooling set up for mass production that probably wont sell all that many. Again the only real reason the sKS was popular here in the states is people were getting them for under 100 not that long ago (20 years ago) and under 400 even recently. Now they jumped in price and there are better options

 

[Podmonkey]

Look at the Ruger PCC for example. That tooling was profitable. Not everyone wants everything in an AR format. Look at @Podmonkey. He can build a badass AR pistol with a folding arm brace but he wants a Ruger because it's different.

I don't want a Ruger because its different, I'd want it because it does what it does well and at a good price. It's not quite the same. Besides 9mm ARs are often problematic. The best 9mm PCCs, IMO are non ARs. Ruger, CZ, SIG and B&T.
The SKS was always popular chiefly because of it's very low cost, as the cost rises closer to that of ARs and AKs only the dedicated collectors will want them. In fact that's right about where we are at now. A new manufacture SKS of equivalent quality to the originals is going to be $1,000 gun or more. All that steel and expensive machining. People will pay that much for a first line modern fighting rifle, I don't think so much for a stopgap design like the SKS.
You are better off waiting for a good example to show up on an auction site.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I don't know. My 9mm AR never had a malfunction.

 

[Podmonkey]

I don't know. My 9mm AR never had a malfunction.

Some do some don't.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Some do some don't.

Get one that doesn't. Lol.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It is a good price though at 500 and something bucks. I can't complain other than the breakdown of it for cleaning.

It'll run without cleaning but I'm OCD. I'll even clean my gun if I only fire 1 or 2 rounds.

 

[Vapor]

Expensive to produce. Lots of milled parts. Already outdated as well.

I hate to say it, but guns like the pcc and mini 14 that are made from good investment castings are far eaiser and cheaper to produce. More modern as well.

The closest thing is the fixed mag vz 58 clones. They run over $1,000.

 

[Marine Cpl]

So why not make a Mini 14 that can accept stripper clips and have a fixed magazine just like the SKS? Or any existing rifle for that matter? There is a market for it.

And the SKS is obsolete only because the detachable magazined AK came out. It isn't obsolete because it doesn't work or doesn't work as well as another rifle as far as reliability goes.

 

[SuffolkArms]

So why not make a Mini 14 that can accept stripper clips and have a fixed magazine just like the SKS? Or any existing rifle for that matter? There is a market for it.

New Mini-14's already seem outside of the price range we're talking about. For that price it seems the VZ58s @Vapor mentioned are the closest thing. The Czechpoint VZ58 Liberty is a product I've seen in some NY gun stores.

Lee Armory sells saiga-styled AKs, but the pricepoint is $1000+. It is a shame that nobody is putting out what you describe, a ~$500 rifle that can be loaded from stripper clips as designed would crush it in ban states. But with 5.56 PSA ARs creeping under $300, I'm not sure the market will be friendly to any other rifle in the immediate future.

 

[Podmonkey]

So why not make a Mini 14 that can accept stripper clips and have a fixed magazine just like the SKS? Or any existing rifle for that matter? There is a market for it.

And the SKS is obsolete only because the detachable magazined AK came out. It isn't obsolete because it doesn't work or doesn't work as well as another rifle as far as reliability goes.

Of all you are after is a modern combat capable compliant arm you have a few options. The SCR, the RDB-C for instance. There are still so many vintage SKS in circulation it doesn't make sense to produce a new one. The market value for an original is less than than what a profitable price on a new manufactured one would be.
Yugo SKS are still out there at a decent price.
You could get a nice Garand still for less than what a new manufactured SKS would go for. The Garand isn't even a bad choice for a compliant option, you can even find .50 cans of new manufactured PPU M1 ball ammo at a somewhat decent price in the big box stores if you are patient. You could send a Garand to Schuff's to have it competently converted to a 16" barreled carbine too. Just invest in high grade hearing protection.

 

[nyenthusiast]

Came here to say that the VZ58 liberty is basically the closest thing to what you’re describing that’s currently available. They’re beautiful rifles, but as mentioned above, they are niche rifles due to the price point they sell at. What I would find much more appealing is if a company, like ruger for example, would explore making a modernized “featureless” rifle for ban states. Think upscaled PC9 with a gas piston operating system that takes AR mags in 5.56 or AK mags in 7.62x39. That would be excellent imho.

 

[Podmonkey]

Came here to say that the VZ58 liberty is basically the closest thing to what you’re describing that’s currently available. They’re beautiful rifles, but as mentioned above, they are niche rifles due to the price point they sell at. What I would find much more appealing is if a company, like ruger for example, would explore making a modernized “featureless” rifle for ban states. Think upscaled PC9 with a gas piston operating system that takes AR mags in 5.56 or AK mags in 7.62x39. That would be excellent imho.

You just described the Mini 14/30 rifles.

 

[nyenthusiast]

You just described the Mini 14/30 rifles.

I don’t think I have. I own a mini 14. I’m talking about designing a rifle with a modern gas system that has greater accuracy than minute of barn and doesn't take expensive proprietary magazines. Giving those rifles a face lift essentially.

 

[SuffolkArms]

Of all you are after is a modern combat capable compliant arm you have a few options. The SCR, the RDB-C for instance.

I wish Fightlite could design a 308 and not sell the lowers for $600 like they do currently.

Kel-Tec supposedly was going to sell the RDB-C in something other than 5.56 but we're all still waiting on that. I wish they'd chop the barrel to 16in and remove the thread protector from the factory. Having to pay a gunsmith to do it is a dealbreaker when the rifle costs $900 + FFL fees + modifications.

 

[Podmonkey]

I don’t think I have. I own a mini 14. I’m talking about designing a rifle with a modern gas system that has greater accuracy than minute of barn and doesn't take expensive proprietary magazines. Giving those rifles a face lift essentially.

Ruger already sells AR15/10 derivatives. Ruger is not going to update the Mini series along the lines you have stated as the Mini has already lost its price advantage against the more modern AR.

@Willjr75 What it really comes down to is that the world we live in, unwise, is pretty much an AR-AK dichotomy. Those are the two top platforms with everything else nipping at their heels.
Now even in NYS you have workable compliant options of both platforms. The SCR is a good rifle and not nearly so goofy as a Thordsen stock and if you can ignore what they cost just a few years ago a Saiga sporter is also a good compliant option and still much better than an SKS.

 

[Podmonkey]

I wish Fightlite could design a 308 and not sell the lowers for $600 like they do currently.

Kel-Tec supposedly was going to sell the RDB-C in something other than 5.56 but we're all still waiting on that. I wish they'd chop the barrel to 16in and remove the thread protector from the factory. Having to pay a gunsmith to do it is a dealbreaker when the rifle costs $900 + FFL fees + modifications.

For a 308 a Socom 16 ot M1A in general is your best bet but as always I advise you to avoid supporting Springfield Armory with your money after the tried to screw over Illinois gun owners with their lobby orgininazation. If you purchased a used one that would suffice I suppose.

 

[nyenthusiast]

I’m equally surprised that more people haven’t pursued making the fixed magazine option more user friendly. Clearing a malfunction on a fixed mag Ar is a pain in the ass at best. Certainly not something I’d want to do under stress. There have been some prototypes for lowers where the mag can be partially retracted downward, and rounds loaded through a port on the side of the receiver. Especially with the Mean Arms and Bear Flag Defense speed loaders that are now available, this seems like a viable idea. Here’s one LRB was showcasing a prototype of some time ago.

 

[SuffolkArms]

Here’s one LRB was showcasing a prototype of some time ago.

Wow that’s pretty awesome. I’m planning on using a fixed compmag on a future build but I hate how it’s the same height as a 30 round mag which makes shooting prone difficult.

An underutilized option for SAFE compliance is the exception carved out for any rifle which can not accept a magazine over 5 rounds. I always thought it’d be cool to have an AR receiver which is blocked off and accepts custom magazines that are large enough to hold 5 rounds but too short to hold anything else.

 

[Podmonkey]

I’m equally surprised that more people haven’t pursued making the fixed magazine option more user friendly. Clearing a malfunction on a fixed mag Ar is a pain in the ass at best. Certainly not something I’d want to do under stress. There have been some prototypes for lowers where the mag can be partially retracted downward, and rounds loaded through a port on the side of the receiver. Especially with the Mean Arms and Bear Flag Defense speed loaders that are now available, this seems like a viable idea. Here’s one LRB was showcasing a prototype of some time ago.

That's because fixed mag is inferior to a detachable featureless design.

 

[Edwardteach72]

There are already plenty if mediocre options on the market..

Option 1/2 mini 14 or 30 ($850)


Option 3 VZ 58 Liberty ($1,000+)


Option 4/5 Saiga or Lee Armory ($1,000+/-)
side note, look at the Lee price on a what is essentially a new US made Saiga clone, this will give you an idea if how much a new US made SKS will cost

Option 6 Featurless AR ($500-how ever much)


Option 6/7 Fightlite SCR or lower ($600- how ever much you want.)



Or option 9 used SKS ($500 and up when you can find them)