Sounds like you have a tight chamber! I will be driving around Saturday looking I'll let you know. Are you looking for ball ammo or hunting ammo in bulk?
Hunting Rifle
- Thread starter MilesTeg
- Start date
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Not sure about either of those but I bought my Remington 700 eXstreme Hunting Rifle (XHR) at Herb Phillipson about 5 years ago for I think about $650, give or take? Half an MOA, the triangular barrel is supposedly better at rigidity than even my 700 Police fluted bull barrel, and I swapped out the recalled X Mark Pro trigger for a Timney 510 on sale for $135. I recently put a Nikon P308 on top and love that setup (plus the thumbhole stock is so comfy). If you figure $650 for the weapon, $125 for the stock, $250 for the scope, and $75 for the rings you have a tack hammer hunting rifle all-in for $1K.
I can't argue against a beautiful 700 that also shoots well. Without going to a long story I don't trust Remington's quality control. I think they have a solid design, but are shooting them in foot bye letting some of these crappy rifles out of their factory. It's enough of an issue that I don't want to roll the dice to see what I get.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Fair point and I have mixed feelings about that. I think it sucks that two years after I move up here to Ilion area, they move the IT to Huntsville. I should have known Cerebus would do something like that; though I love it up here. When Cerebus got involved and started buying every gun manufacturer in USA, they did not give enough consideration to letting these companies stay autonomous and not tinker with cost saving just because analytics data shows cost cuts can raise profit margins. I'd like to see more time allotted to Quality Assurance and more money allotted to quantitative and qualitative analysis on the production line.
That having been said, I knew most of the people in the executive portion of Remington and to a person the belief is that if your weapon is not 100% to your liking they will make it right no matter how much they have to lose on that rifle doing it. They will fix it or send you a new one; and will NEVER stray from that belief and approach. I can guarantee to you (even though I am not a Remington / Cerebus employee) that if your Remington is not perfect the day you get it, it will be perfect after you send it back. And this is no different than Colt or any other big manufacturer. I have a Colt National Match Gold Cup Delta Elite that wasn't doing the groups I wanted for IPSC and I drove to the Colt compound and dropped it off at the building on the side called the "Colt Custom Gun Shop". They mixed and matched parts until that weapon was doing 1" groups at 25 yards and gave me back the weapon all dialed in 100% for free.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Ball I guess. Just plinking ammo until I can start reloading 30-06. For hunting I buy Hornady from a store. So maybe some case of 1K rounds but not erratic like that Greek ball from the CMP that I bought. And sadly I bought 10 boxes; so 10,000 rounds of that stuff. I figured I could use it in my 1919A4, M1 Garand, and 1903A3 so it was a good purchase. I had no idea it would stop the bolt operation on a new 30-06.
One other place to sniff around before you make your purchase. That guy Mel that owns Sniper Central - he gets deals on rifles from some place in California that makes tack hammers that come out of the box at 0.10 to 0.25 MOA accuracy. But the prices on those are kinda stupid IMHO. I can't see myself blowing $5K on a bolt rifle without glass.
I agree I have no doubt that they will make it right. I had a Savage that had to go back the factory, so I agree Remington isn't the only one. My thing right now is that money is still pretty tight in my household, so trying to get the most bang for my buck is a big deal. If I can get a Bergara for the same price as a Remington and it's a superior rifle I'd be crazy not to get it.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
I know nothing about Bergara other than they are made in Spain and not USA. You would be sending your money to some foreign country; and it's a country with like 40% unemployment and I'd hate to have to send something to Spain for a repair or worry about some Spanish company being in business in 5 or 10 years. You don't see Llama selling 1911's anymore and they were a huge Spain gun manufacturer. Me personally - I am all about Remington in Ilion, Savage in Utica, Ruger in Southport CT, Colt in Hartford. Buying product locally where I can get in my car and drive to the company to get something fixed.
They have just opened a facility in Georgia. Where they make the custom higher end rifles. They recruited former military armorers and put them to work. So for me they are no different from any of the other manufactures. I will concede that the rifle line I am looking at is made in span not the US. As far as purchasing USA made I try to do that but it's not a big deal in my book. I don't know why I should be punished with a inferior product that is more expensive. If the government would get their dirty hand out of the cookie jar US business would take off again. That reality sadly won't ever happen therefore I am going for the best bang for my buck without worrying about where my money goes.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Well I should have gotten a picture of the bergara sticker on the stock. The tag says cva
Thank you! I might have to make the drive! Any thoughts or impressions after putting your hands on the rifle?
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
It felt sturdier than I thought it would. The stock is not like Remington sps line up. The bolt was really smooth. I would not hesitate on buying one. I just went back down lol. The counter guy told me it was a cva and made me second guess myself. I made sure this time. Even had them find the box.
Last edited:
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Fair point; though we disagree a little. If I can buy something made in USA where the money goes to a USA corporation I tend to try and do that. I'm not being punished by buying American - just being pro-America. Rather give my money to some guy who has to feed his children in Pennsylvania or Arkansas than to someone who has to feed his family in Madrid or Palma de Mallorca. That having been said:
1) How much MOA accuracy do you need? I would say 0.5 MOA to 0.75 MOA from a bolt gun is very realistic and that our money being well spent means we need that level of accuracy.
2) How much bang for the buck do you need? I would say when I pay $500 to $700 for a bolt gun I paid a reasonable amount and I don't feel guilty that I spent too much.
3) With regard to the above 2 questions; what USA companies make sub-MOA for $600 and what non-USA companies make sub-MOA for $600? As I said earlier I admittedly don't know shit about this Spanish company. I do believe that a Remington Police or XHR is $600, that a Savage is about $500, and that a Thompson Center 0.5 MOA guaranteed Venture series is about $600. On the website T/C Venture Weather Shield is showing $568. Remington isn't showing the police on the website, but Gun Broker is saying $729. I swear I paid about $600 each 10 years ago. Savage Axis is also 0.5 MOA to 0.75 MOA from the box, and the Savage website says the Axis II XP is $506.
Lol I that must be why when I called my local store they thought I was crazy. They believe it to be a CVA.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
That is a Bergara rifle. CVA cannot be its brand.
Just to be clear. I don't work for Bergara and my opinions here are unbiased, in good faith and to the best of my knowledge.
Some people here know me in person from the leagues, shooting and improving the rifles and equipment and I try to collect
as much info as I can and test every rifle I can get my hands on to so I can have a somewhat decently formed opinion.
Bergara has invested heavily in the USA and opened a large manufacturing plant in Georgia.
They hired some of the best gunsmiths in the country (some veterans too) to serve professionals, Law Enforcement and special units.
Swat, police, they all are buying the equipment because they are made made in Georgia and provide more quality w/o astronomic prices like others do.
Some entry models like the B14 are made in Spain but they also partnered shilen (Another american company) to get their barrels where they
are today. They also use other USA made parts.
I have been a Remington 700 enthusiast all my life but their quality has come down to levels where others are beating them to the punch.
If one wants a quality Remington 700 will have to aproach a master builder and put some serious moola down for a cumtom properly blueprinted action.
There are some out fo the box ready to go but made on the same principal. We don't have the same consistency out of the box as we
used to have with them.
I also used to buy Chevy but after the last two cars I will not buy Chevy ever again. I have come to the realization that nobody makes motorcycles
and cars like the Japs with a few exceptions. If I can I buy a model that is made here or at least a brand that has manufacturing in the USA even
if it is not for my model. If car makers like other items want to be competitive they need to make things with some minimum quality standards.
Look what Remington has done to the once amazing marlin lever action rifles?
I also buy Savage that are made in the USA and over the years they have schooled all other manufactures how to make super accurate affordable
rifles for the working man. So if Savage can make it happen why is Remington not doing it? It seems they have fallen asleep at the wheel.
The bergara is a very solid piece. The prices will go up fast. You will see.
I have pictures of R700 fiascos I found when breaking factory actions in the 700 that are totally unacceptable.
Rough finished chambers, short tenons, crappy threads, timing totally off, garbage triggers, etc... Of course after working on them they become
a world class rifle but why spend extra for a hunting rifle when you have the same action with all the improvements out fo the box?
Remington need to wake up. For all we know Soros might own Remington like he owns huge stakes on Federal/ Lake City ammo manufacturing.
He is also stakeholder in the Dinosaur BBQ and another reason I stopped eating there, even when I love those ribs.
This is the guy who wants to take all your firearms away. So where your dollars really go is far more tricky than originally expected.
Just to be clear. I don't work for Bergara and my opinions here are unbiased, in good faith and to the best of my knowledge.
Some people here know me in person from the leagues, shooting and improving the rifles and equipment and I try to collect
as much info as I can and test every rifle I can get my hands on to so I can have a somewhat decently formed opinion.
Bergara has invested heavily in the USA and opened a large manufacturing plant in Georgia.
They hired some of the best gunsmiths in the country (some veterans too) to serve professionals, Law Enforcement and special units.
Swat, police, they all are buying the equipment because they are made made in Georgia and provide more quality w/o astronomic prices like others do.
Some entry models like the B14 are made in Spain but they also partnered shilen (Another american company) to get their barrels where they
are today. They also use other USA made parts.
I have been a Remington 700 enthusiast all my life but their quality has come down to levels where others are beating them to the punch.
If one wants a quality Remington 700 will have to aproach a master builder and put some serious moola down for a cumtom properly blueprinted action.
There are some out fo the box ready to go but made on the same principal. We don't have the same consistency out of the box as we
used to have with them.
I also used to buy Chevy but after the last two cars I will not buy Chevy ever again. I have come to the realization that nobody makes motorcycles
and cars like the Japs with a few exceptions. If I can I buy a model that is made here or at least a brand that has manufacturing in the USA even
if it is not for my model. If car makers like other items want to be competitive they need to make things with some minimum quality standards.
Look what Remington has done to the once amazing marlin lever action rifles?
I also buy Savage that are made in the USA and over the years they have schooled all other manufactures how to make super accurate affordable
rifles for the working man. So if Savage can make it happen why is Remington not doing it? It seems they have fallen asleep at the wheel.
The bergara is a very solid piece. The prices will go up fast. You will see.
I have pictures of R700 fiascos I found when breaking factory actions in the 700 that are totally unacceptable.
Rough finished chambers, short tenons, crappy threads, timing totally off, garbage triggers, etc... Of course after working on them they become
a world class rifle but why spend extra for a hunting rifle when you have the same action with all the improvements out fo the box?
Remington need to wake up. For all we know Soros might own Remington like he owns huge stakes on Federal/ Lake City ammo manufacturing.
He is also stakeholder in the Dinosaur BBQ and another reason I stopped eating there, even when I love those ribs.
This is the guy who wants to take all your firearms away. So where your dollars really go is far more tricky than originally expected.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Never bought a Jap car. Rather walk. Not even sure how we ended up friends with them after what they did in WW II. Any time I think of that, I shake my head and wonder why nobody seemed to care about the Rape of Nanjing. China was our friend and Japan was the enemy. Strange how quickly things change.
Remington is owned by Cerebus. That's the same VC firm that bought Dodge, if you remember that. What Cerebus did was buy pretty much every gun manufacturer that was willing to sell and joined them all together into something called Freedom Group and let Bob Nardelli run the show (of Home Depot fame after Bernie and Art retired). Bob stepped down a few years back. The company is mostly owned by Cerebus still along with California State Teachers. They hold that in their pension plan which is like $200 billion bucks. I don't know anything about Soros. I spent many years consulting at Remington and Home Depot (I run SAP projects) - never heard of the dude until Hitlery Clintard decided she needed to be Queen of America to feed her inflated ego.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Jap. motorcycles and cars are awesome. Everyone knows that. They didn't become the nr. 1 by accident.
The freedom group is the same that runs Remington, DPMS and Bushmaster right?
Also, wasn't the Home Depot's CEO the one who contributed millions to Cuomo's campaigns? I forgot his name.
I think some people at Remington are great but the problem are the higher ups "thinking" heads.
They have been using the spaghetti approach. Start something, toss it to the wall, and see if sticks. they do not follow through.
The 30RAR and 6.8spc are just small examples of it. A dedicated group of enthusiasts get a hold of the abandoned
projects and take them to next level eating from the very own Remington market share.
Also QC has suffered a lot. The Marlin lever forums are full of horror stories after this group took over.
They should let some of the actual employees make the strategic decisions as they know more about the products and
customers and they actually care about them.
I don't know how much this commie Soros holds but it seems he has a huge stake in the ammo we use. Interesting we might
be funding this mother fucker right? Just like the Saudi, we put gas money in their pockets so they can come back
and hurt us. I am more worries about these goons than any Japs. The japs are actually pretty civilized now and we could
learn a lesson or two from them.
The freedom group is the same that runs Remington, DPMS and Bushmaster right?
Also, wasn't the Home Depot's CEO the one who contributed millions to Cuomo's campaigns? I forgot his name.
I think some people at Remington are great but the problem are the higher ups "thinking" heads.
They have been using the spaghetti approach. Start something, toss it to the wall, and see if sticks. they do not follow through.
The 30RAR and 6.8spc are just small examples of it. A dedicated group of enthusiasts get a hold of the abandoned
projects and take them to next level eating from the very own Remington market share.
Also QC has suffered a lot. The Marlin lever forums are full of horror stories after this group took over.
They should let some of the actual employees make the strategic decisions as they know more about the products and
customers and they actually care about them.
I don't know how much this commie Soros holds but it seems he has a huge stake in the ammo we use. Interesting we might
be funding this mother fucker right? Just like the Saudi, we put gas money in their pockets so they can come back
and hurt us. I am more worries about these goons than any Japs. The japs are actually pretty civilized now and we could
learn a lesson or two from them.
Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
just my 1 cents here .. i went with a .270 cal .. will take down anything here in NY .. lower recoil then the 06 .. 06 brass can be re-sized to 270 ..
and i will leave u with this ..
and i will leave u with this ..
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Freedom Group owns Remington, Bushmaster, Marlin, DPMS Panther Arms, Cobb Manufacturing, Dakota Arms, AAC, H&R, Taapco, Para Ordnance, Barnes Bullets, and I think they are in the process of buying Barrett Arms and a few others. First Art Blank and Bernie Marcus ran THD. When I implemented SAP for THD, that's who was still in power there. Then they brought in Bob Nardelli at the end of our multi year SAP implementation and he doubled the size of THD. Toe the point THD was popping up a new store every 53 hours, kicked Sears off the DOW to replace them, and was doing $1B a week through their POS system $440 at a time. Bob was supposed to be the Heir Apparent for Jack Walsh at GE. He's a Cerebus meat puppet. Cerebus bought Dodge Chrysler and stuffed him in as CEO. Then they bought every gun manufacturer in USA they could, and put him in charge of that next. Cerebus has like $50 billion cash and they buy distressed companies and turn them around for big profit. Every time they shift him to the next project they have, they pay him close to a quarter billion in cash. He made $210M from his shift off THD to Chrysler, and another $200M to swap over to Freedom Group. If he channeled money into Cuomo it would probably be some sort of tax write-off he was doing.
You are wrong about Remington. They take all their OLTP data (SAP ECC, SRM, SCM, MDM) and feed it into their OLAP (SAP BI on HANA). Then with that analytic data, they build data cubes and determine how to cut costs, when to delete / grow / alter product lines, etc. The problem is they don't let SAP QM (quality management) drive their SAP PS (project systems). So they let marketing determine price points and product lines instead of driving it from a quality perspective. Lots of companies suffer that mistake. This is actually one of the smart things about Clinton, versus dumbass Trump who can only build skyscrapers and crashes at other ventures (gambling, airline industry, etc). Clinton realizes that companies running to meet same-quarter-last-year predictions often force themselves to ditch long term investing in manufacturing. I am not sure what her full plan is to fix that (since I hate DNC and don't follow them ad infenitum); but she does have a plan and has talked about it and I heard her speak on XM Sirius POTUS channel about it a few times.
I don't know dick about this Soros guy. Guess I should read up on him. I just figured he was another shitstain fund manager that made stupid money on hedge funds and whatnot. Lots of Jews make it big in business - he isn't the first and won't be the last. It's something that apparently Jews adapt well to. Everyone but me I guess. LOL
Fuck Japan. I barely tolerate going to Tokyo every year. I don't like their culture, their elitism, the way they steal technology, and I certainly don't like what they did to China. We should have dropped 100 bombs on them and not even asked them to give up. Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia If I cannot buy a product made by my fellow Americans, I ponder how I can do without that product. Granted we have to go to the foreign well for laptops etc; but I wish that was not the case. My stereo is 100% American, for example. No Jap crap in there. Bob Carver / Steve Johnston and Paul Klipsch built every part and I will repair those until the day I die and not buy Jap. And if George C Mathes still owned Curtis Mathes and made TV's for the public, I wouldn't own LG or Sony. NTT Data offered me a dream role but I had to leave my American company behind. I told them to suck my dick and wouldn't even talk to them. I'm not saying other people need to buy American; but that's my personal choice and I am proud of it. My driveway is filled with Chevrolet, Ford, and Dodge. Suburban, F150, Avalanche, supercharged Impala SS, some Vettes of different series, and a pair of Vipers. Tell me the Japs make something nicer than this:
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
SAP? That's German right? Let's not forget ww2 (and ww1). So you hate everything Japanese because of the past but implement systems that make the Germans money? Seems odd but whatever.
Freedom Group owns Remington, Bushmaster, Marlin, DPMS Panther Arms, Cobb Manufacturing, Dakota Arms, AAC, H&R, Taapco, Para Ordnance, Barnes Bullets, and I think they are in the process of buying Barrett Arms and a few others. First Art Blank and Bernie Marcus ran THD. When I implemented SAP for THD, that's who was still in power there. Then they brought in Bob Nardelli at the end of our multi year SAP implementation and he doubled the size of THD. Toe the point THD was popping up a new store every 53 hours, kicked Sears off the DOW to replace them, and was doing $1B a week through their POS system $440 at a time. Bob was supposed to be the Heir Apparent for Jack Walsh at GE. He's a Cerebus meat puppet. Cerebus bought Dodge Chrysler and stuffed him in as CEO. Then they bought every gun manufacturer in USA they could, and put him in charge of that next. Cerebus has like $50 billion cash and they buy distressed companies and turn them around for big profit. Every time they shift him to the next project they have, they pay him close to a quarter billion in cash. He made $210M from his shift off THD to Chrysler, and another $200M to swap over to Freedom Group. If he channeled money into Cuomo it would probably be some sort of tax write-off he was doing.
You are wrong about Remington. They take all their OLTP data (SAP ECC, SRM, SCM, MDM) and feed it into their OLAP (SAP BI on HANA). Then with that analytic data, they build data cubes and determine how to cut costs, when to delete / grow / alter product lines, etc. The problem is they don't let SAP QM (quality management) drive their SAP PS (project systems). So they let marketing determine price points and product lines instead of driving it from a quality perspective. Lots of companies suffer that mistake. This is actually one of the smart things about Clinton, versus dumbass Trump who can only build skyscrapers and crashes at other ventures (gambling, airline industry, etc). Clinton realizes that companies running to meet same-quarter-last-year predictions often force themselves to ditch long term investing in manufacturing. I am not sure what her full plan is to fix that (since I hate DNC and don't follow them ad infenitum); but she does have a plan and has talked about it and I heard her speak on XM Sirius POTUS channel about it a few times.
I don't know dick about this Soros guy. Guess I should read up on him. I just figured he was another shitstain fund manager that made stupid money on hedge funds and whatnot. Lots of Jews make it big in business - he isn't the first and won't be the last. It's something that apparently Jews adapt well to. Everyone but me I guess. LOL
Fuck Japan. I barely tolerate going to Tokyo every year. I don't like their culture, their elitism, the way they steal technology, and I certainly don't like what they did to China. We should have dropped 100 bombs on them and not even asked them to give up. Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia If I cannot buy a product made by my fellow Americans, I ponder how I can do without that product. Granted we have to go to the foreign well for laptops etc; but I wish that was not the case. My stereo is 100% American, for example. No Jap crap in there. Bob Carver / Steve Johnston and Paul Klipsch built every part and I will repair those until the day I die and not buy Jap. And if George C Mathes still owned Curtis Mathes and made TV's for the public, I wouldn't own LG or Sony. NTT Data offered me a dream role but I had to leave my American company behind. I told them to suck my dick and wouldn't even talk to them. I'm not saying other people need to buy American; but that's my personal choice and I am proud of it. My driveway is filled with Chevrolet, Ford, and Dodge. Suburban, F150, Avalanche, supercharged Impala SS, some Vettes of different series, and a pair of Vipers. Tell me the Japs make something nicer than this:
I havent driven either, but have ridden in both, the Viper and the GT-R!
if i could choose either, i want the GT-R!
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Never driven in a GT-R. I'm sure it's nice; but it's not Viper nice. I also have a Z06 from the same year of their 50th Anniversary model and I put in a Zex nitrous system that if you fog in 6th gear you can bury the speedo (200 mph). Scary and fun at the same time. I did that a few times on I75 between Lake Allatoona and Calhoun. I also ran it at Southeastern Dragway for two years. But the place closed. Longest running NHRA track in the South, and they closed it to make fucking condos. LOL
LOL you have to love how crazy derailed a thread can get. Started out on hunting rifles and we are now on to beautiful cars.
Greywolf224
6.5 Creedmoor
Only to wind up with ugly Hildabeasts!
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Here might be my favorite. I bought it new in 86 and the Ford dealer the next year said they needed to replace the turbo due to a tech bulletin. Then a week later they call to tell me they accidentally totaled it when they were test driving the new turbocharger. Dafuq? This is the only car I ever got a hummer in while driving on the highway. ;-) Can't believe the wife went for that idea. If I could have any car back, it would be this one or maybe my 70 Buick Gran Sport with ram air, 4 barrel, under dash 8-track and A/C. I bet that's rare now.
Greywolf224
6.5 Creedmoor
This is BonnyLynn (the car) my 1976 Pontiac Firebird Formula. Dad bought it for me off a little ole lady in 1979.
Still have and drive her regularly. Use to take her down to Englishtown in the late 80's. Will never part with her.
Still have and drive her regularly. Use to take her down to Englishtown in the late 80's. Will never part with her.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Milesteg did u try calling back herbs to see if they had any cva/bergara or whatever they call them in stock?
I tried the local one Monday before the pictures were posted. They said they never carried a Bergara rifle. Now I've seen the pictures I realize I should call back and ask for a CVA rifle. I'm going to go shopping Saturday with my father and we will hit up the 3 in the area anyways. They are a small detour from our other destinations.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
Snappo, you're clearly into rockets, but the GT-R is designed to drive on roads with these things called curves.
The shit Detroit foisted on the American public for decades is why many of us now own Japanese or German cars. Bikes aren't even worth mentioning, the Japanese own that market and make awesome products, suggesting otherwise is delusional.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Are u going to the Oswego herbs if u can't find one locally?