Hunting Rifle

[MilesTeg]

The first set of targets we're at 50 yards getting the gun dialed in. While I cleaned the bore after every round and let the barrel cool between shots. The second target I moved out to 100 yards. I don't think I've ever taken out a bull's-eye so well before. This wasn't the only one of the day surprisingly.

 

[MilesTeg]

Next I moved to the hunting ammo because I ran out of the cheap ammo. I shot 5 shot groups and cleaned the gun between groups. As you can tell it wasn't great shooting and both types of ammo produced similar groups. Again I think I was a factor here more than anything else. I still haven't decided which round I will use, also if I'm going to test more variety of ammo. I'm leaning towards just using one of these rounds for this season then do a full workup next summer when I have time.

 

[meketrefe]

Looking good. you got 3 inside 1" in the 2nd group.
I still think you might have the glass a tad too high and back and will be hard to get a steady position.
But again hard to say. Take the sticker off the barrel before you continue! lol.

 

[MilesTeg]

Lol Ya I took it off right after that picture. Now you mention it again and thinking about shooting today you could be absolutely right about the height. I did have a pad on my bench rifle I could commendeer. I don't know if I want to buy a new one considering I'm leaning on changing the scope mounting around when I have time and money next summer. Most of the shots from my tree stand will be within 100 yds so I think I can get bye. After today though I'm pretty excited to do a proper load work up next summer for sure. The gun was a pleasure to shoot.

 

[meketrefe]

These ones they like a 270 and they are perfect for deer and smaller game...
Light and fast!

 

[meketrefe]

You have some super inexpensive in ebay that work the same as the popular generic brands (OEM made anyway).
If you tell me the height I might have some spare rings you can use.
It might work for you but I am also telling you becase I see this issue all the time and it is super easy to get a decent improvement. If you need a pad that is the easy part. You can even made one with duck tape and foam.
Duck tape still is one of the most popular ways including service rifles.
All pennies on the dollar.

 

[MilesTeg]

Wow that was devastating. how do the light copper bullets like that do in wind on a long range shot compared to a standard bonded bullet let's say 150gr. I don't see this to be a concern just more of a curiosity.

 

[meketrefe]

Not ideal for long range. They do worse than 150gr in wind but they get to 300 yards FAST! so for most uses it is negligible and
what you want is speed on the target. At the average distances you have a 308 that works just like a mighty 270.
130gr at 3100 - 3200 fps that is the speed of a 55gr 5.56 bullet from a M16 but with 130gr of solid flaps so you do the math.
You see, these are stout bullets and they stay together and because they hit so fast the activate very fast and very efficiently so one can
sacrifice a little of sectional density, weight and ballistics in flight in exchange for hyper speeds.
So in the average ranges they shoot flatter, hit harder and release energy very fast (faster than a heavier solid) that is
what you want with soft skin game like deer, mountain goat, etc...
I think 130gr is the minimum for the 30 caliber and bullets should be sent at hyper speeds that way we assure brutal
hydraulic shock and instant collapse. The animal does't collapse from the wound and blood loss but from the disruption
to the CNS when these bullets are put right on the plexus (through shoulders).

speed kills.

Here same thing. WSM launches the 150gr like the 308w launches the 130gr TTSX... See the shock wave in slow mo.
It is like it was hit by lightining. I like this style of killing because animals drop where they stand and there is zero
suffering involved, something that concerns me a great deal when I harvest game.

 

[MilesTeg]

Wow that is an amazing video. To see the shock wave on a target like that is insane. I agree this is what every hunter should strive for when taking game, clean instant kills that minimize suffering. This way my main motivation for transitioning to a rifle to a shot gun. Very rarely was there a shot I couldn't make with my shotgun but the terminal performance was appalling and I couldn't do it anymore.

 

[meketrefe]

Compassion is important on anything we do in life, including hunting.
We have to think like "if I was in the game I would like to abandone life like that instead of slowly bleeding to death".
Sometimes less becomes more in the end. Speed is key.

 

[MilesTeg]

I wanted to follow up on this thread. I just shot a big doe (158lb)with this rifle. Unless there's overwhelming demand I won't be posting a picture. The long story short I made a bad shot. I'm pretty dissapointed in myself and the deer deserved better. The rifle preformed flawlessly and it was 100% my fault. I can't wait to do some more shooting with this rifle next summer and become better acquainted. I'm also stoked about some load development.

 

[Jaywmustang]

Crap happens sometimes. All u can do is try your best.

 

[ECU Pirates]

I wanted to follow up on this thread. I just shot a big doe (158lb)with this rifle. Unless there's overwhelming demand I won't be posting a picture. The long story short I made a bad shot. I'm pretty dissapointed in myself and the deer deserved better. The rifle preformed flawlessly and it was 100% my fault. I can't wait to do some more shooting with this rifle next summer and become better acquainted. I'm also stoked about some load development.

How bad of a shot?

 

[MilesTeg]

First shot blew the front leg off. It was high enough to pass through the rib cage. Second shot miss. Third shot center mass between between the shoulder blades.

The fits shot was bad because I over corrected when she took a step.

 

[meketrefe]

At least you have the courage to recognize it and get better. I have done some bad shots myself and nothing to be proud.
I never post pictures of game. I hunt a lot with my BIL who is 1/2 native american and he does the prayer and the whole thing
so I would not even bring the subject of a picture and quite frankly I could care less at this point.
We owe it to the animals and mother nature to protect what we have. There are very dark forces at play to take everything
we hold sacred away from us including our right to hunt and also firearms for self defense. No need for trophy hunting here.
at least for me, I don't care. If I am not going to eat it, I don't shoo it. Very simple.
I am happy you are happy with the Bergara since I kind of talked you into it.

 

[meketrefe]

I think one of the advantages of the 308 is that IT IS A 308! but also the nr. of loads that might be accurate
is less % than other calibers. First because there are so many loads in 308 that just the number and standards for
loading are a bit spread all over.
2nd because commercial rifles tend to chamber a couple of thousands larger chamber to avoid problems with all kinds
of commercial ammo including NATO ammo in 7.62x51. The bergara seems to have pretty tight chambers but they
cannot go beyond a point at the risk of not having many ammo chamber or being safe to fire that it can become
a liability for a rifle maker too.

Now that you have once fire you can try loading a few rounds w/o bumping the shoulders back and looking for top accuracy.
This is what I suggest:

- Good mount and rings. Bed this to the action. Then install everything properly so you don't have to worry about this again.

- Find out max COAL. For each bullet you are to try this will dictate the length of the rounds with bullets loaded at different depths therefore difference distances from the lands that should show more accuracy.

- For the chamber. Also compare once fired brass w/o resizing vs. a once fired case FL resized with your dies. This will give you a delta (Difference) to work with. Ideally you can just neck size many times or FL size but w/o going all the way pushing the shoulders back.

- Try other ammo including top shelve match ammo but if you are going to reload you will save money. But some super consistent match bullets to try would not hurt. your accuracy load for a hunting rifle should be milder than the full power hunting load. Any new bullet find max coal so
you can calculate distance from the lands.

- Another thing in a new rifle is to torque the action screws to consistent value and then write down the values. Eventually the action will settle in the stock through pounding so you want to be able to take the action for cleaning and service and torque back to the same specs. Additionally while looking for accuracy you might torque different values that will have an impact in the accuracy nodes of the barrel (harmonics). This is like tuning a piano string. Torque wrenches in inch pounds are cheap. don't buy an expensive one.

-The B14 has an adjustable trigger. You might not need to touch it but you should have all ergonomics along with the new scope rings, proper cheek height, LOP and everything else setup to suit you. It is like going to the tailor. the rifle needs to adapt to you and not the other way around.
This is a very common problem I see all the time at the range. People are not properly setup even if they do not want to admit it.

- Shooting routine. With a new rifle one needs to get into a lever of control. Hunting rifles are lighter therefore more susceptible to jerking during firing. One can easily add more weight in the back of the stock but also getting solid support and right shooting routines. This is something key that I see people struggle with all the time.
Sometimes it can be a bad habit acquired with other rifle or simple never had a one on one sit down with a professional instructor or mentor.
I do this once in a while and have a professional instructor watching me looking for any bad habits or simply tips to improve based on my foundation and skills.

There are a few more things one can do. IMO it is all fun learning and getting antiquated with the firearm in question but some important
foundation stuff too.

 

[MilesTeg]

For anyone that has been following this thread, meke's post was a result of a private conversation we've been having. He had the great idea to bring it public so other people could learn and input also.

As earlier post have suggested I was unhappy with the grouping I was getting with this rifle. Meke and I believe it's a result of 2 different factors that I'm going to try to remedy.

First being the scope mounting issue. The short of the problem was I had limited funds and time to set this rifle up before the last hunting season. Because of this I used what I already had all in all it cost me $14 to put the scope on it for this past season so I went that route. The problem that arose was the scope was too high for the stock. The quick fix I did for the season was to steal my cheek pad from my bench rifle.

Second issue was the ammo. I suspect the rifle didn't really like the selection I had. I looked in the local area and there was nothing in a decent price range to try out. Therefore I went with what I had.

This brings us up to now. My next steps for the rifle is to properly mount the scope to fit me and the rifle. I have ordered a scope base from midway yesterday to start the process along.

I also ordered some 130gr TTSX's to try to develop a load for. I also splurged and bought 100 of the new starline brass to try out.

For my next rounds of questions for Meke or anyone else that was to discuss this topic.
1. There has been a lot of talk about torques. I currently only own bigger torque wrenches. Therefore I would welcome recommendations on what to get.
2. Meke has also talked about torqueing the mounting screws and different measurements I should be keeping track of. How does everyone record the information for a new rifle? A dedicated note book if so what's your format and what do you track? If you use something else I don't know of?
3. Lastly how do I probably bed the scope base to the rifle? A tutorial or video would be welcomed. After that how to measure for the proper scope height?

Thanks for everyone's help and I will add pictures and updates as this moves along.

 

[Jaywmustang]

I use the wheeler torque wrench for all my mounting. It is cheap and easy to use.

Are u talking about the action screws? I have not really messed with torquing outside of factory specs. I do have a rifle I am going to mess with. The stock manufacturer gave me a range of 55-65 in-lbs.

 

[MilesTeg]

I use the wheeler torque wrench for all my mounting. It is cheap and easy to use.

Are u talking about the action screws? I have not really messed with torquing outside of factory specs. I do have a rifle I am going to mess with. The stock manufacturer gave me a range of 55-65 in-lbs.

Yes those and for the scope mounting. Maybe I will have to order that wrench with the scope rings when I get the proper measurement.

 

[meketrefe]

Hi,
Miles
don't spend too much. The torque doesn't have to be super precise. the main thing is that is uniform and consistent between the
screws. you could use this in-lb one...

1/4 in. Drive Click Type Torque Wrench

20-30 in-lb for the base / rings
50-60 for the action.

Regarding the you need to get a nice steel base first and then check for clearance. My guess is the base on the bergara might
not need any epoxy or very minimum just skim bedding.

I found a couple of videos for you. Otherwise we can make one and we can talk more about this after Christmas.

On this one I would clean the base with an emery cloth to remove any paint so the epoxy sticks better to the base.
And be more careful about the screw holes and screws to make sure you do not get any epoxy there...

Preparation like this but with a better steel base vs. aluminum one...


Another one... not necessarily agree with everything but good to watch..



Forget about the fact this guy is trying to build a precission system for $500 and the garbage scope and rings
but look at how he decides on the proper height and position of the scope to help the shooter.
In order to actually level the scope there is one way to get this properly in line with the bore so I do not
agree with this part but otherwise it is giving a good illustration of how the rifle and glass should be adapted
to FIT YOU and not your forcing your posture to work on the rifle. It is like going to the tailor to get a suit
made. If you want watch the whole series. He takes the cheapest axis and garbage boodys stock and makes
everything work much better for his goal of competing with that rifle. I found it was fun to watch. Again
we can talk about a few things that are not ideal in terms of getting the best results but overall you will
get a picture of what people with the right DIY kind of deal are looking for...


Merry Christmas.

 

[DoD1776]

I'm having huge issues zeroing my scope right now my shots are hugely inaccurate

 

[meketrefe]

I'm having huge issues zeroing my scope right now my shots are hugely inaccurate

Dayten,
You went with a 30-06 in a very light rifle that is going to be a challenge on itself.
There are a number of things you can do from easier to more involved.
I know you are on a budget but will have to commit some time to go item by item.
The first thing I would do is to check everything and make sure everything is torqued down with locktite.
Get some weight inside the stock in the back it can be lead shot or even sand well wrapped in bags and this
will work as a dead blow weight for you.
Also lets zero the rifle from the prone position or have to devise a way to avoid this light rifle jumping
all over in the bench. I think the by-pod will help and get into a push routine for shooting.

Merry Christmas!

 

[meketrefe]

I would simply neck sized the once fired brass or then resize the brass but w/o bumping the shoulder too far back.
One could use a simple gauge to take a relative measure and compared from fired cases form our own chamber.

 

[MilesTeg]

Thanks for the videos Meke. I just finished watching them. I have a good plan in place for when the base gets here. I pulled apart the rifle gave it a top to bottom cleaning and removed the scope & bases. So I will have to go shopping for the needed supplies sometime this week. Any suggestions on rings once I have a measurement?

 

[meketrefe]

No problem. They are not ideal but they give a good idea.
I will give you a few tips with a good explanation why and along with the videos we don't need to make one ourselves.
for rings there are some good ones w/o spending an eye but also don't go dirt cheap on them.
You got the steel base right? I think the steel rings are in order and will assure a life time of pounding w/o moving a hair.
I am not against aluminum but on average there are less issues with steel in the long run. Given we keep away from moisture and corrosive stuff but the entire rifle is steel too so you want to do that anyway.

 

[MilesTeg]

Yes I bought a steel base. I'm pretty curious to see if I'm going to need to bed the base.

 

[MilesTeg]

OK wired question. Is abnormal to buy a different set of dies for different rifles in the same caliber? I'm thinking about this for the Begara because my current 308 dies are setup for bench rifle. If I do do this I'm thinking about changing up brands of dies, I've only ever used RCBS. I'm thinking about trying Hornaday. Anyone have any experience with them? I see there are two different types dies they offer (neglecting bench rest dies) are the normal ones that much better than the Americans?

 

[meketrefe]

I don't know anyone who has dies for a specific rifle only but it is normal to have more than one set in the same caliber.
Specially for competition or a set with bushing changing system vs. classic or one for the auto-loaders with a stop to avoid case expanding.
I have a few hornady dies. They are fine but they are not my favorites. They seem to be softer and less polished than redding that are
my favorite ones. RCBS are also pretty good. If one gets a great deal go for them otherwise the redding are hard to beat.
There is no reason one could not reload great with hornady. They make great components. It also depends on what features one is looking
for and cost.

 

[dsdmmat]

I have dies for my 700s in 30-06, 308 and 223 then I have a set of dies that I use for the semi autos in all of those calibers.

 

[MilesTeg]

For $20 it seems worth it. No confusion no readjusting, it seems worth it. But I don't know if the American series is going to be adequate for my task. I know it's a hunting rifle but I still am a little anal about getting the most accuracy I can.
American Series 2 Dieset 308 Win (.308) With Free Shell Holder

I'm not trying to be cheap I just happened upon this deal while researching scope rings.