Let talk 6.5 Grendel

[ADK]

Summit ,Cobleskill, area and a little on long Island.

What are you trapping for? Fox, Coyote mink?

 

[meketrefe]

I've been waffling about which caliber to step up to for over a year now.

I'm almost sold on the Grendel, but for economic reasons, and since I almost never shoot over 200 yards, the Blackout keeps calling. I already use 30 caliber bullets, and it would be nice to make brass from plentiful .223 range brass.

Why do you want to come one step down from the 223?
The easiest and cheapest way to improve on the typical 223 is to invest on performance 223 ammunition.

If cost is a factor the 7.62x39 is going to give you more power and options than the whisper / blackout for less money specially if you also want
to shoot steel with it.
Many will give you chambers that can shoot both .310 bullets and .308 bullets using a 308 expanded button in the decamping pin of the FL or neck sizing die.

Or if you want a rifle that can do something significantly different at 200 yards what about the 450 bushmaster or the socom?

If you reload another good one is the 223 AI but if you want a way to give the a cartridge a 20-30% boost in performance w.o doing much, and you don't mind to reload the 6x45 or 6mm TCU are as easy as it gets. Affordable hunting bullets, extremely accurate and run like a dream from standard magazines.

Also if a 30 caliber is what you want something a bit more powerful what about something like a 30 herret? But with the 7.62x39 hybrid cambers I am not quite sure is worth the bit extra push.

 

[1075tech]

I'm almost sold on the Grendel, but for economic reasons, and since I almost never shoot over 200 yards, the Blackout keeps calling.

Economic reasons? If it's price of ammo, Wolf steel plinking ammo can be had for $0.23 per. Most of the Hornady factory hunting and match ammo is around $0.85 per. The Federal offerings are nearly the same price as the Hornady.

 

[kev74]

For me it will likely be nothing more than a range toy. The initial buy in price for some of the more exotic calibers has been scaring me off.

Then I see stuff like this and come close to pulling the trigger....but don't.

6.5 Grendel SA16 'Grendel' Series 16" 1:8 Nitride Carbine Builder Kit with Predator Stock Kit 12" KeyMod Handguard - $269

I have a feeling it might take me a while to build my NYGF lower.

 

[meketrefe]

Kev,
16" barrel, No bolt, cut with the M4 profile for who knows what reason? ...I don't know. Not that great.

Do you reload? If so the 6x45 or TCU will give you match grade accuracy and extra reach and performance very inexpensively.

 

[Catskillkid]

Thanks for starting this thread. Now that I have the Bullet Guy lower I've been trying to think about what type of build I want. I already have two rifles in .223/5.56 so I don't want to go that route again. I'm almost sold on the Grendel (such as badass name). Been interesting to see how things develop.

 

[meketrefe]

For me it will likely be nothing more than a range toy. The initial buy in price for some of the more exotic calibers has been scaring me off.

Then I see stuff like this and come close to pulling the trigger....but don't.

6.5 Grendel SA16 'Grendel' Series 16" 1:8 Nitride Carbine Builder Kit with Predator Stock Kit 12" KeyMod Handguard - $269

I have a feeling it might take me a while to build my NYGF lower.

Kev,
What about a nice precision 223R upper? The 223 can be loaded with 70-82gr bullets that perform really well. there is also
plenty of match ammo in those weights some match winning ammo and some that gives amazing terminal performance
for defense or hunting.
Even thee is inexpensive 75gr ammo that is really effective and still have the option of more conventional tipical loads.
So whether you are target shooting or defense or even long range shooting the 223 does very well. In practical terms
the 223R with those loads is going to do the same things as the grendel and some others even better.

What do you think a Grendel is going to do for you that a super accurate 223 R cannot do?

If the 22 caliber is not legal for white tail in your area then you can easily lean on the 6x45 or 6mm TCU also very affordable
to feed and as easy as it gets.

 

[ManrisFrack]

Ok. I strayed from the path, I'll admit it. But yall need ta come ta Jesus and build 6.8s.

 

[kev74]

Kev,
What about a nice precision 223R upper? The 223 can be loaded with 70-82gr bullets that perform really well. there is also
plenty of match ammo in those weights some match winning ammo and some that gives amazing terminal performance
for defense or hunting.
Even thee is inexpensive 75gr ammo that is really effective and still have the option of more conventional tipical loads.
So whether you are target shooting or defense or even long range shooting the 223 does very well. In practical terms
the 223R with those loads is going to do the same things as the grendel and some others even better.

What do you think a Grendel is going to do for you that a super accurate 223 R cannot do?

If the 22 caliber is not legal for white tail in your area then you can easily lean on the 6x45 or 6mm TCU also very affordable
to feed and as easy as it gets.

I've already got 2 ar's in .223 that shoot better than I can. Its going to be a long time before my ability exceeds their potential. I have no practical reason for building another - but I'm not going to let that stop me!

I've got a new lower sitting on a shelf and want a new toy. That's all.

The TCU has me intrigued, but the build cost is significantly higher than building for some of the more popular calibers.

Since I'm lazy, using regular AR mags is a plus. So is being able to load with components I already have around. That's kind of pushing me toward 300 Blackout. Its too bad Blackout is 3-5 years past its coolness peak. We all want to be cool, right?

I'm trying really hard not to let cheapness be my guide on this one and instead focus on quality.

 

[dsdmmat]

I've already got 2 ar's in .223 that shoot better than I can. Its going to be a long time before my ability exceeds their potential. I have no practical reason for building another - but I'm not going to let that stop me!
I've got a new lower sitting on a shelf and want a new toy. That's all.
The TCU has me intrigued, but the build cost is significantly higher than building for some of the more popular calibers.
Since I'm lazy, using regular AR mags is a plus. So is being able to load with components I already have around. That's kind of pushing me toward 300 Blackout. Its too bad Blackout is 3-5 years past its coolness peak. We all want to be cool, right?
I'm trying really hard not to let cheapness be my guide on this one and instead focus on quality.

I have more than a few blackouts. The ability to make all the brass for the 300BLK you want from range pick ups, and use what you ready have at home to reload it is an attractive plus. As long as you are shooting 0-200 yards it is a fun cartridge beyond that it get a little challenging.

 

[meketrefe]

I have more than a few blackouts. The ability to make all the brass for the 300BLK you want from range pick ups, and use what you ready have at home to reload it is an attractive plus. As long as you are shooting 0-200 yards it is a fun cartridge beyond that it get a little challenging.

That is why I proposed the 6x45 or TCU that is even easier to reload with 223 brass and extremely acurate for 200 yards or 800 yards if you want. Barrels are also plentiful and works like a dream.
It is very affordable and a substantial improvement in performance over the 223 and obviously the whisper blackout.
I have several uppers in the calibers mentioned on these threads and always come back to the 6mm because it is just so easy and accurate.

 

[kev74]

That is why I proposed the 6x45 or TCU that is even easier to reload with 223 brass and extremely acurate for 200 yards or 800 yards if you want. Barrels are also plentiful and works like a dream.
It is very affordable and a substantial improvement in performance over the 223 and obviously the whisper blackout.
I have several uppers in the calibers mentioned on these threads and always come back to the 6mm because it is just so easy and accurate.

Do you have any recommendations for barrel vendors? I don't see many (any) at Midway, Brownells, etc.

 

[meketrefe]

Do you have any recommendations for barrel vendors? I don't see many (any) at Midway, Brownells, etc.

Do you reload right?
Midway carries a nice one made by either Douglas or McGrowen (their stoner brand) in 6x45.
I know there are not as popular as others but they are out there.
If they don't have one I might have a spare one somewhere because I always buy them in twos or threes sometimes.
One of the most accurate uppers I have is a 6x45 with a barrel made by Lothar Walther custom shop. They didn't take
them long but those are more expensive if you order custom.
Les Baer has them in stock as uppers or entire rifles but those guys are expensive. But it is also true those actually
win 100-300 yards score competition matches.
I think spikes also had them in stock at some point.

Did you read the threads about the 6x45 and other wildcats I developed?

 

[kev74]

Do you reload right?
Midway carries a nice one made by either Douglas or McGrowen (their stoner brand) in 6x45.
I know there are not as popular as others but they are out there.
If they don't have one I might have a spare one somewhere because I always buy them in twos or threes sometimes.
One of the most accurate uppers I have is a 6x45 with a barrel made by Lothar Walther custom shop. They didn't take
them long but those are more expensive if you order custom.
Les Baer has them in stock as uppers or entire rifles but those guys are expensive. But it is also true those actually
win 100-300 yards score competition matches.
I think spikes also had them in stock at some point.

Did you read the threads about the 6x45 and other wildcats I developed?

I read the threads you had posted.

I can't find any 6mm TCU barrels for sale and the only 6x45 I saw was almost $500 for just a barrel. That's out of my league. By a lot.

I'll likely wait for a hot steaming deal on a kit and swap off and sell the parts I don't want. Or find an upper I like and take care of the rest.

 

[meketrefe]

I read the threads you had posted.

I can't find any 6mm TCU barrels for sale and the only 6x45 I saw was almost $500 for just a barrel. That's out of my league. By a lot.

I'll likely wait for a hot steaming deal on a kit and swap off and sell the parts I don't want. Or find an upper I like and take care of the rest.

Oh..sorry.. I think that might have been in the other forum when it was a firearms forum.
I might have to copy the thread here.

TCU might be harder to find. The 6x45 were at midway. $180 maybe... I forgot.
who is charging 500 for a 6x45? I hope is a krieger barrel or something in that league.

I was thinking a local group of folks here got into the 35 caliber based on a design I made.
This is a caliber that uses the 7.62x39 or Grendel case as parent yet it produces more momentum
at 300 yards than the x39 at the muzzle and obviuosly even more than the whisper / blackout.

We found out the 180 and 200 grain bullets work the best for white tail and hogs but the thing
can be loaded to tackle even moose. It is ballistically superior to the 450, socom and bewulf
and feeds perfectly from standard x39 or grendel magazines.

If that was not enough, the round can be loaded with inexpensive 9mm and 357 pistol bullets
that come out like lightning.

I am thinking because the 200 yards this gives a lot of horse power whitin 300 yards.
In a 300 yards with a 16" barrels makes more sense than the 308 itself but running from
a much smaller AR15 carbine.

 

[Calculon]

Oh..sorry.. I think that might have been in the other forum when it was a firearms forum.
I might have to copy the thread here.

Please do. I remember that thread and would like to build something like that.

 

[Calculon]

Oh..sorry.. I think that might have been in the other forum when it was a firearms forum.
I might have to copy the thread here.

Please do. I remember that thread and would like to build something like that.

 

[meketrefe]

Please do. I remember that thread and would like to build something like that.

Sorry guys,
I thought I had the threads here but didn't get to re-post all those calibers and I somehow it seems I also deleted the folder with the pics.
But I promised I will have everything recreated here and all pics up to date. will probably create new ones as I cannot edit old posts.
One thing at the time.

I was also thinking to perhaps get another barrel made in 18" to add to the Gunner collection.

Last time we got 10 made for local folks and forum members and everyone are very happy with the new caliber so maybe we
should do another group buy/build.
The thing is a blast to shoot and puts the AR15 into Big Game hunting category.

The barrels, dies and gauges came out to $455 with the super bolt and the modified dies. The thing with these projects is that the larger
the volume, the lower the price goes, like everything I guess.

But even w/o super affordable barrels the thing pays by itself pretty quickly both in fun and affordable reloads if you want. I got 2K TMJ 357 200gr
bullets from Natcheszz that were .16 cents each. One cannot do this with any other caliber for a 200gr pistol bullet that can be used to shoot steel or even to pulverize a deer or a hog on a budget.

horse power! lol

 

[Catskillkid]

Alright, I've settled on the 6.5 Grendel for the new build. Let's talk barrels and twist rates for a moment. Right now I'm leaning towards a 20 or 22 inch barrel with a 1/8 twist rate. From what little I've read 1/8 is good for the longer barrels (20 inch plus) and 1/9 is better for the shorter barrels (18 inch or less). I have all carbines right now so I thought it would be nice to go with a true rifle length build this time (hence the longer barrel). Thoughts, comments, suggestions appreciated.

 

[meketrefe]

Alright, I've settled on the 6.5 Grendel for the new build. Let's talk barrels and twist rates for a moment. Right now I'm leaning towards a 20 or 22 inch barrel with a 1/8 twist rate. From what little I've read 1/8 is good for the longer barrels (20 inch plus) and 1/9 is better for the shorter barrels (18 inch or less). I have all carbines right now so I thought it would be nice to go with a true rifle length build this time (hence the longer barrel). Thoughts, comments, suggestions appreciated.

Who told you lower rate is better for shorter barrels and why?
1:9 is plenty for most bullets the length you want to shoot with the grendel but if for example you want to try solid bullets you will
need a 1:8.
The twist has everything to do with the speed, length, shape and construction of the bullet and not grain.
The Grendel has a slow start so the longer the barrel you feel comfortable with, the better.
I have a 18" and in the future I will go with a 20", 21 or 22".
I mean if you are going to hunt in a tree stand the 18" is better and plenty but if you are going to mainly shoot target the 20" or 22"
is going to give you an advantage.
I think one can still hunt from a blind or a stand with a 20"
I would also go with 1:8 twist in order to use GS and Flat line bullets.

 

[Catskillkid]

Who told you lower rate is better for shorter barrels and why?
1:9 is plenty for most bullets the length you want to shoot with the grendel but if for example you want to try solid bullets you will
need a 1:8.
The twist has everything to do with the speed, length, shape and construction of the bullet and not grain.
The Grendel has a slow start so the longer the barrel you feel comfortable with, the better.
I have a 18" and in the future I will go with a 20", 21 or 22".
I mean if you are going to hunt in a tree stand the 18" is better and plenty but if you are going to mainly shoot target the 20" or 22"
is going to give you an advantage.
I think one can still hunt from a blind or a stand with a 20"
I would also go with 1:8 twist in order to use GS and Flat line bullets.

I think I may have actually written that backwards or perhaps misread it in the first go around (I tend to do that). Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards the larger barrel (20, 22 or 24 inch). More than likely this will be a bench gun. Most of my guns are toys to be honest and this probably won't be an exception.

A little off topic but I always appreciate your advice and wisdom, meketrefe. What are the advantages of barrel fluting if any?

For the record my cousin is friends with folks who work with Black Hole Weaponry/Columbia River Arms and I might order a barrel through them. They have lots of options. Columbia River Arms

 

[meketrefe]

I think I may have actually written that backwards or perhaps misread it in the first go around (I tend to do that). Thanks for the advice. I'm leaning towards the larger barrel (20, 22 or 24 inch). More than likely this will be a bench gun. Most of my guns are toys to be honest and this probably won't be an exception.

A little off topic but I always appreciate your advice and wisdom, meketrefe. What are the advantages of barrel fluting if any?

For the record my cousin is friends with folks who work with Black Hole Weaponry/Columbia River Arms and I might order a barrel through them. They have lots of options. Columbia River Arms

Oh ok. I was asking because there is no basis for that claim.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I am always learning from what others do anyway.
I think 24 is great but a bit on the cumbersome side. Maybe you will be happier with 22 that is more than plenty anyway.
Past the 21" the rate of speed increase slows down.
If you know someone at the Black hole great but I had lots of problems with them. I guess it is a hit or miss situation.
One barrel is amazing the next all full of problems. Great people though but not sure about consistent quality.
I still think that 20" ARP with their super bolt is the way to go based on their quality, and I have a fair share of makers and brands.
The issue is that I think they were closing this week for the move and until Nov.
I know shilen, pac nor and lothar walter will make you one but will be more money.

I have a 6.5 TCU in 22" that is also amazing for a fraction of the cost to shoot. I don't use it anymore since I am now concentrated
on the 6mm and the 35 gunner so if you want the barrel and dies let me know.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

Just shot mine again today. Love me my Grendel....away from the prying eyes of the Prince of course.

 

[zzrguy]

What are you trapping for? Fox, Coyote mink?

Mostly yotes and beaver we have weasels but no luck getting any I had a Bobby cat last year in a leg hold trap but he was a small cat so I let her go.

But recently the coyote have become a real pain in the ass so I'm looking to kill as many of they cocksucker as I can.

 

[zzrguy]

Ok guys anyone ever use Grendel Hunter he seem to have a good deal for Barrel, BCG, and gas system for under 400.

18″ 6.5 Grendel Barrel – Grendel Hunter

 

[ManrisFrack]

Grendel Hunter Reviews - Hunting and Shooting with the Modern Sporting Rifle (AR-15/AR-10)

ETA: I think I read somewhere that Grendel Hunter uses and sells Satern barrels. Also on that forum, they have a group buy going for 20" Satern barrels, fluted 1 in 8 5R with a Maxim bolt for $325 shipped. The catch is they'll keep the buy open until 12 barrels are spoken for so you'll probably be waiting awhile.

 

[JamieZ]

Just an FYI about barrel manufacturers. I've purchased 2 barrels from Lilja, one in 223 and one in 204. They don't skimp on how they make their barrels. I have excellent accuracy out of both of them. They make barrels for the elite forces of the Navy Seals and people shooting in competitions in the Olympics. Their barrels aren't cheap and they do make a 6.5 Grendel.

http://riflebarrels.com/product-category/drop-in-barrels/ar/ar15/65-grendel/

Personally,,,when I was thinking about Grendels a few years back,,,I built a 6.8 instead.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I see the Grendel as good for someone who wants to share an upper with an existing 5.56 receiver to hunt something a little bigger or for someone who wants to tinker, enjoys reloading it, or is actually going to shoot it at distances on paper at up to 800 yards. It's a great compromise caliber to share and upper with your existing lower.

But if you actually are going to get a dedicated lower for it, why not go with an AR 10 and get more velocity, range, ammo grain weight, and common ammo availability? The extra 2 pounds it weighs is worth it in my opinion. It's not like you are going to carry it all day on patrol in the Helmand Province.

 

[ManrisFrack]

Personally,,,when I was thinking about Grendels a few years back,,,I built a 6.8 instead.

Me too. I haven't shot on a range longer than 200yrds since the military and 200+ opportunities while hunting are the exception. At those distances there is very little difference in energy. However, the 6.8 will be generally be a touch faster (grain for grain and inch for inch) and has a much better selection of good hunting bullets. I struggle to see why the Grendel following is as large as it is and why it seems to be growing. Maybe the idea of punching targets at long range is sexier than actual utility?


Even boutique calibers in the AR-15 platform are cheaper and easier to shop/build for than the standard AR 10 calibers. Weight isn't the only trade-off.

 

[meketrefe]

I got a few of these barrels and I am going to sell a couple.
This gives you significant more speed and performance form the AR15.
It is also more accurate than the Grendel.