Let talk 6.5 Grendel

[zzrguy]

Well it time to build a new AR rifle when sitting at my bench I've notice I have half of what I need to reload for the Grendal just need some brass and a set of dies.

Why shouldn't I build a one?

Ok if should want length should I build it. I have a rifle length 223 and 6.5 creedmoore and a 308 so I was thinking a mid length 18in gun for hunting.

 

[meketrefe]

hi,

Nice! ... a discussion that is not politics or off topic!

I would practice with once fired from your gun and don't bump it too much so you can get a feeling for the proper headspace.
Dies for this I suggest redding or RCBS just because they have lapped buttons with 1 thousands variations so you can adjust tension also
depending on the bullets.
What firearm do you have and any brass spent?

 

[zzrguy]

Sorry I hit post before I wanted to.
I'm building my new NYGF upper & lower I already load 6.5 creedmoore and have a shit ton of 6.5 bullets in dam near every weight.

What I'm really looking for is what length gun and parts to get.
My rifle length 223 is going on the trap line with me this year cause I have a ton of Yotes that always seem to be hanging around just around 150yd mark plus I like to dispatch my game from a distance as to not stress them out more or have them taer up their pelts trying for one last chance to get away.

But now I got a new set to play with I'm think 18in mid length gas System not a big fan of free floating rails all seem to be way over priced for what they are.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Not sure about optimal barrel length.

Free float handguards are going to give you your best accuracy. I see them start at $80. That is not bad really.

 

[1075tech]

I have 2 Grendels. My suggestions: As with any AR, put the money in the barrel, trigger, and optics. Everything else is standard.

If you're not in a hurry, over at the Grendel Forum, they are doing a group buy of 18" barrels from Faxon.
Otherwise, Alexander Arms (the developer of the 6.5 Grendel) has both 16 and 18's.
OdinWorks seems to be doing well with the Grendel as well.

Go for the .136 bolt headspace rather than the .125 and the SAAMI chamber rather than some of the bastard variants.

Adjustable gas is my preference. I have an SLR Rifleworks on my AA 16" and an OdinWorks on my Faxon 16".

Some freefloats can be had on the cheap but will definitely make your rifle a better shooter. Mine both have ALG handguards but my next build will probably be something cheaper.

Plenty of factory options for ammo. Right now Wolf WPA steel can be had for .23/per. Not real accurate though. Federal has a 90gr varmint, 120gr, and 130gr match load and 120gr Fusion load. Hornady has the 123gr SST and 123gr Amax/ELD-M loads.

I can fairly consistantly get 100 yrd 5 shot groups sub .75 MOA with both of my Grendels (with Hornady factory SST loads).

ETA: A 16" barrel with Hornady SST factory loads, at 350' ASL, will still have enough velocity for reliable expansion out to about 375 yards. You can do better with some of the newer mono's if you handload.

 

[meketrefe]

The Grendel is a nice little round. It has a slow start so it benefits "a lot" from 22-24" barrels.
I have a 18" barrel but If you like something manageable I believe a 20" barrel is best.
IMO the best bolts quality wise are the ARP and he also have some nice melonited barrels
on sale.

20" 6.5 Grendel - Melonite 5R -MW profile, 5/8-24 THD

I use their bolts for all my cats including the powerful 35 gunner that uses Grendel brass and
I have yet to break a bolt made by them. Some of the hunting loads I developed are pretty
brutal and put a lot of thrust on the bolts. I would not even try them if I didn't have those
beefed up bolts.
The adjustable gas block is optional. The variations in pressure smooths out with the longer barrels.

The 123gr from hornady are a great value. I also like the sierra 107gr SMK that comes out screaming.
I use that one in the 6.5TCU in the AR15 and get comparable speeds using the 5.56 case as donor.
It doesn't get much easier than the 6.5 tcu. The only thing it requires a single stack magazine to
load the longest bullets far out. Those magazines are hard to get but one can fabricate a couple.
I don't think high round count is critical with this type of caliber and for hunting or target shooting.

 

[zzrguy]

Was doing a little looking for parts and I'm see 6.5 Grendel and 6.5 Grendel II or type 2.
What is the difference if any.

 

[meketrefe]

The size of the bolt recess (depth) to the bolt face is different by 10-11 thousands of an inch.

Never mix spec II and I !!!

Even with the same spec there is a risk of mix and matching parts.
The best thing is to buy everything from the same place with the bolt matched to the specific chambering job.
Those ARP parts are the best you are going to find, specially the bolts that are beefed up a little and
with a stronger allow and heat treatment 25-30% stronger than the typical bolt for this caliber.
That is why these do not break while others break prematurely.
The fact that a chamber passes the headspace gauge test doesn't mean it is the best choice.

 

[Prudii]

I'm holding out for a AK in 6.5Gren, My father wants to get the NY legal Kel-Tec RDB-C in 6.5.

Also Midway has 10 round 6.5 mags.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

What are the differences between the 6.5 Grendel, the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .260 Remington ?

 

[meketrefe]

I'm holding out for a AK in 6.5Gren, My father wants to get the NY legal Kel-Tec RDB-C in 6.5.

Also Midway has 10 round 6.5 mags.

hi Prudii,
AKs are complex in NYS unless one is LE or they are "sporterized" versions like a saiga and such.
Regarding the RDB how is this even possible?
It seems to me based on the small section they chose for the bolt radius this will be tricky plus
everything is proprietary.

 

[Prudii]

hi Prudii,
AKs are complex in NYS unless one is LE or they are "sporterized" versions like a saiga and such.
Regarding the RDB how is this even possible?
It seems to me based on the small section they chose for the bolt radius this will be tricky plus
everything is proprietary.

I escaped from NY about 5 months back, and the RDB-S is NY legal from the factory Kel-Tec | RDB-S

They are supposed to be coming out with conversion kits for it, one of them and the only one demostrated to the public so far is 6.5Gren.

 

[meketrefe]

What are the differences between the 6.5 Grendel, the 6.5 Creedmoor and the .260 Remington ?

the most powerful is the 260 remington due to the highest case capacity but the 6.5creed is pretty pretty close. These are derivates from the 308 winchester case that is a short action / AR10 type up to 2.280-2.820" max COAL (catrige overall length).

The Grendel was created from the 6mm PPC / 7.62x39 that is a shorter case in order to feed in a compact action like AR15, Mini14, small ak, etc..
These are up to 2.260-2.290 max COAL.

The 260 and 6.5x47 and 6.5 creed. will push 140gr bullets to very decent speeds while the grendel will struggle with anything heavier than 125gr.

The 260 can push a 120gr bullet at 3000fps that is 500fps faster than the grendel at 2500fps with a 24" barrel.

The 260 and 6.5 can push a 140gr bullet past 2700fps that is 200 fps faster than the grendel can push a 120gr bullet.

So the grendel is a decent small round but there is a substantial difference.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

the most powerful is the 260 remington due to the highest case capacity but the 6.5creed is pretty pretty close. These are derivates from the 308 winchester case that is a short action / AR10 type up to 2.280-2.820" max COAL (catrige overall length).

The Grendel was created from the 6mm PPC / 7.62x39 that is a shorter case in order to feed in a compact action like AR15, Mini14, small ak, etc..
These are up to 2.260-2.290 max COAL.

The 260 and 6.5x47 and 6.5 creed. will push 140gr bullets to very decent speeds while the grendel will struggle with anything heavier than 125gr.

The 260 can push a 120gr bullet at 3000fps that is 500fps faster than the grendel at 2500fps with a 24" barrel.

The 260 and 6.5 can push a 140gr bullet past 2700fps that is 200 fps faster than the grendel can push a 120gr bullet.

So the grendel is a decent small round but there is a substantial difference.

Thank you. So for a AR type frame, using the .260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor I'd need a .308 size upper, but for the 6.5 Grendel I could use a .556 upper?

 

[meketrefe]

I escaped from NY about 5 months back, and the RDB-S is NY legal from the factory Kel-Tec | RDB-S

They are supposed to be coming out with conversion kits for it, one of them and the only one demostrated to the public so far is 6.5Gren.

Oh ok.
I am wondering how since the size of the extension and bolt radious is very small.
I think that is where they made their first mistake in the first place imho.
I see their business made in the novelty, innovation and proprietary stuff vs. taking over any markets.

But maybe the change the design or something... we'll see, I guess.

 

[meketrefe]

Thank you. So for a AR type frame, using the .260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor I'd need a .308 size upper, but for the 6.5 Grendel I could use a .556 upper?

Receiver wise yes, you use the AR15's. barrel nut is the same. the bolt and magazine are different. one could reconditioned a 223 magazine with a different follower and some mods to work up to 4-5 rounds before sweeling but they are inexpensive so I would not even try.
Everything else is the same.

Like I said before take a look at the ARP barrel and bolts. They are stronger bolts than the competition.

I like the grendel however at the average distances I think the power of the 6.8 is amazing and a more reliable and dependable
round and gun all around. Specially if one is to hunt with a light carbine the 6.8 hits like a hammer.

But if one wants to share the bullets with other 6.5 calibers there is a point to take something that uses the same bullets up
to 120-125grains.

 

[Prudii]

Oh ok.
I am wondering how since the size of the extension and bolt radious is very small.
I think that is where they made their first mistake in the first place imho.
I see their business made in the novelty, innovation and proprietary stuff vs. taking over any markets.

But maybe the change the design or something... we'll see, I guess.

Here is the video with MAC talking about the RDB-S in 6.5

That sounds like Kel-Tec they made their business making some pretty innovative guns, however hey had a reputation for bad reliability. But a few years back they redid all their manufacturing standards and got ISO certified and their quality has improved quite a bit.

 

[meketrefe]

Here is the video with MAC talking about the RDB-S in 6.5

That sounds like Kel-Tec they made their business making some pretty innovative guns, however hey had a reputation for bad reliability. But a few years back they redid all their manufacturing standards and got ISO certified and their quality has improved quite a bit.

I don't know. I think the keltec su-16 is a pretty ranch rifle and perhaps because it is so simple it is more reliable
but everything else I bought from them ended up being total garbage. They seem like good people on the phone but
the headaches are too many.

I don't know the ISO certification is going to help them unless they start to put better design and materials into the guns.
And I don't mean in a bad way because some people might not want nor need a gun for heavy use but if you want an
all terrain dependable gun you need to have something that is proven, that can easily and quickly be fixed and
parts and aftermarket found all over. Otherwise they become one more piece in the novelty department.

When all the parts are different than any previous platforms this presents huge challenges. Essentially prices cannot come
down and if they do is with poor quality. If they do come down the reliability falls and if they do not come out the
market share does not grow. So this is why it is very hard to make it.

Proprietary today is very complicated specially when you have "open source" platforms and resources growing and proliferating
everywhere. I think that brands who fail to understand this, they are shooting themselves on the foot.

We have examples of failures and successes. Bergara made a R700 based model and is eating market share in the bolt action
from the inventors of the blueprint. 1911 with new features that share the same parts keep coming out and selling big.
Anything glock whether is taking mags or in rifle, AR, etc.. sells.

POF just released a 308 that uses AR15 carriers and handguards that is huge. they just killed the DPMS Gen II concept and they
are so stupid that didn't make bolts and extensions availabe for the general public. Lets see what POF that but perhaps same
way to kill their own stuff. Olympic killed themselves with the lack of open parts widely available.

The list goes on an on... both failures and successes and the reaons are always the same ... well aside from the horrible
marketing of remington. Cannot understand how those guys were not fired after the 30RAR, 68 campaign, GenII and all other damages.

 

[meketrefe]

btw... thanks for sharing the video but that guys says something that is not true.
He said the grendel can push heavier bullets to higher speed than the 6.8 that is totally false.
It is quite the opposite. What the grendel can do is to send 120gr bullets that have a better ballistic coefficient
so for paper punching and ringing steel at long range they are better but the average ranges the 6.8 has more power
and section and a huge assortment of hunting bullets in that 80gr to 120gr range that the 6.5mm doesn't have.
6.5mm in lighter bullets is and AR15 is better for target than it is for hunting imo.
It doesn't mean it cannot hunt well but I have both and I can tell form experience after many
years using both.

 

[zzrguy]

Thank you. So for a AR type frame, using the .260 or the 6.5 Creedmoor I'd need a .308 size upper, but for the 6.5 Grendel I could use a .556 upper?

You need a AR 10 platforum not just a upper for the 6.5 creedmoore
As the 6.5 Grendel is based on the AR 15 platform. I own a 308 and a 6.5 Creedmoore both DPMS AR10s and and I have a couple of AR15s in 223/5.56.

Top is a AR10 bottom AR15 you can see the size difference of the 2.

 

[ADK]

Where are you trapping?

 

[ManrisFrack]

ARP 20" rifle gas $155: 20" 6.5 Grendel - Melonite 5R -MW profile, 5/8-24 THD

Enhanced 9310 Grendel bolt: 6.5 Grendel 9310 alloy (enhanced) .135 recess

I just bought a 6.5 Grendel bolt and barrel combo from him. I'm not big on the Grendel numbers but I know an ARP barrel at that price is a good deal. Gotta find out why the cartridge has such a rabid following. If you want that 750XD bolt, ask for it in the comments when you buy the barrel. It's $125 as I recall. You can just buy the enhanced bolt instead and they'll check headspace if it's on the same order as the barrel.

If you're going to buy from ARP do it quick. He's moving and the last day to order is 9/24. Evidently it'll be at least November before he starts taking orders again.

 

[meketrefe]

ARP 20" rifle gas $155: 20" 6.5 Grendel - Melonite 5R -MW profile, 5/8-24 THD

Enhanced 9310 Grendel bolt: 6.5 Grendel 9310 alloy (enhanced) .135 recess

I just bought a 6.5 Grendel bolt and barrel combo from him. I'm not big on the Grendel numbers but I know an ARP barrel at that price is a good deal. Gotta find out why the cartridge has such a rabid following. If you want that 750XD bolt, ask for it in the comments when you buy the barrel. It's $125 as I recall. You can just buy the enhanced bolt instead and they'll check headspace if it's on the same order as the barrel.

If you're going to buy from ARP do it quick. He's moving and the last day to order is 9/24. Evidently it'll be at least November before he starts taking orders again.

I think the XD bolt is the way to go that will last your life, your son's life and your grand children! lol ... but like I said the 'standard' 6.5 bolt
they make is much better than anything else.
Yes I heard the orders should be made before this Sunday and will not resume order processging until end October as the owner is moving to FL keys!

 

[zzrguy]

Well now to make it even harder I shot my friends 300 Blackout me likey. Argh!

I have to do more research now.

FLM

 

[meketrefe]

Well now to make it even harder I shot my friends 300 Blackout me likey. Argh!

I have to do more research now.

FLM

I thought you were looking for a powerful and accurate round?

 

[kev74]

I thought you were looking for a powerful and accurate round?

 

[zzrguy]

I thought you were looking for a powerful and accurate round?

Wow!

 

[ADK]

zzrguy.... I see you mentioned trapping.
Where are you trapping?

 

[zzrguy]

zzrguy.... I see you mentioned trapping.
Where are you trapping?

Summit ,Cobleskill, area and a little on long Island.

 

[kev74]

I've been waffling about which caliber to step up to for over a year now.

I'm almost sold on the Grendel, but for economic reasons, and since I almost never shoot over 200 yards, the Blackout keeps calling. I already use 30 caliber bullets, and it would be nice to make brass from plentiful .223 range brass.