Let's talk about scopes...... again.

[Podmonkey]

Namely MOA vs Mil Dot. Whats the difference? How do the work? Which do you prefer and why?
I've got it narrowed down pretty much to two options, the Trijicon 1-6 Accupoint and the new Zeiss 1-6 Conquest. Both chosen for combination of optical clarity and realtive lightweight, though the Trijicon is borderline there.
The rifle they would go on is that Daniel Defense 16" some of you have seen. Intended puropse is to be a lightweight, highly mobile and versatile precision carbine for use out to 400 yards. In reality it will see most of its time punching paper from 25 to 200 yards.
The Trijicon is available in numerous reticles inculding both Mil Dot and MOA. The Zeiss is only availble in MOA and plain style crosshairs.
I'm not interested in BDC reticles as I shoot different weight bullets all the time, 55gr, 62/64gr and 77gr pills.

 

[Exonautic]

from my limited understanding MOA is better for precision shooting, while mrad/mil-dot is better for on the fly adjustments, i.e. man sized targets. MOA is better for more fine adjustments.

 

[Podmonkey]

from my limited understanding MOA is better for precision shooting, while mrad/mil-dot is better for on the fly adjustments, i.e. man sized targets. MOA is better for more fine adjustments.

For my puropses, based on that, I'd prolly be better of with the Mil Dot then. I wish the Zeiss offered a Mil Dot reticle, its 3 oz lighter than the Trijicon.

 

[dsdmmat]

I prefer MOA and simple cross hairs, with the maximum magnification I can stand. With your limit of 400 yards stick to MOA and 1/4 clicks.

 

[Acer-m14]

remember MIL dot only works at a certain Zoom setting .. most likely mid power of the scope unless the scope is a first focal plane type where the raticle changes size when you zoom in and out ...

 

[Jaywmustang]

Moa is1” at 100 yards and mrad is 3.6”. So like exonautic said the moa would give you a finer adjustment for precision shooting. I would suggest getting a optic that the reticle and turrets match. I am no expert either. I chose mrad/mrad optics cause it was more commonly talked about on gun forums so it was easier to find information.

 

[squib]

Mil dots are used for ranging targets and hold overs. Good if your planning on shooting 400yds

 

[96coal449]

I'm here to learn. I've never shot magnified.
Thank you @Podmonkey and everyone for free education.

 

[MilesTeg]

Mil dot and MOA in simplistic terms breaks down to metric versus English. Both work, yes one offers finer adjustments but that's negligible to most shooters. The one key as states above is to have a matching reticle to the turrets.

If you are just starting out I would recommend picking one and learning the math and ranging of the system. Other key points is to get a first focal plane scope for any range shooting.

 

[Podmonkey]

Both scopes I'm looking at are 2nd focal plane. This is fine with me, I figure If I using less than the full 6x the range will be so short that ranging and dopes will be irrelvant, just put the center dot on the target and shoot I figure. That's why I like to shoot 55 gr ammo recreationally, the trajectory out to 300 yards is so flat as to render holds unnecessary right? This might not be the case for the 62/64 gr Gold Dots or the 77gr SMKs though.
When I get close to buting the scope I'll be asking about the math. I'm totally usless when it comes to numbers. I have what they call a sequencing disorder.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I,m old school, I just want the old school scope and I'll make it work.

There is so much out there to fill everyone's needs.

It's a WIN/WIN situation.

 

[Podmonkey]

I,m old school, I just want the old school scope and I'll make it work.

There is so much out there to fill everyone's needs.

It's a WIN/WIN situation.

Well the nice thing about some of these fancier reticles is it takes a some of the guess work out of holding on targets of unknown distance, which is what I want for this rifle.

 

[Jaywmustang]

Your holdover will not be accurate with a second focal plane unless you have the magnification where it needs to be for full value of your reticle. Did that make sense lol.

 

[HighlandLofts]

I have an acquaintance that is into long range shooting. He spent close to two grand on his AR platform rifle then $2,300 on his scope.

Way out of my network.

Just give me a Mossberg mag fed 22lr bolt action and a $150 Redfield.

 

[Acer-m14]

@Podmonkey with a 2nd plane focus .. like i have .. 5 to 16 zoom or something like that .. .. the MIL dots are on for 10X setting for ranging and using the dots for hold over and wind ... so you have to be on 10x for a set yard you zeroed the scope at .. ... what you can do is time consuming .. is make a dope chart for the scope at different zooms .. so like at 15x the dots now are 6.5 inches and not the 3.6 inches .. .. you have to be up on your math with the scope you get ..
mine is Mil dot rad with MOA turrets .. so not fun in a way .. but keeps the math skills up in your head ..

 

[Acer-m14]

Your holdover will not be accurate with a sfp unless you have the magnification where it needs to be for full value of your reticle. Did that make sense lol.

with SPF the dots are the same 3.6 at any zoom setting .. it will be all out of wack with the 2nd plane type .. the rat stays fixed

 

[Podmonkey]

Your holdover will not be accurate with a sfp unless you have the magnification where it needs to be for full value of your reticle. Did that make sense lol.

Yes, and like I say, if the target is far enough away that holding over is necessary than why would I be at anything under 6x? Under 100 yards with the 5.56 I can just hold center of mass and get a hit.

 

[Jaywmustang]

with SPF the dots are the same 3.6 at any zoom setting .. it will be all out of wack with the 2nd plane type .. the rat stays fixed

Sorry I should have spelled it out. I meant second focal plane(sfp). I’ll correct it up top

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Podmonkey]

@Podmonkey with a 2nd plane focus .. like i have .. 5 to 16 zoom or something like that .. .. the MIL dots are on for 10X setting for ranging and using the dots for hold over and wind ... so you have to be on 10x for a set yard you zeroed the scope at .. ... what you can do is time consuming .. is make a dope chart for the scope at different zooms .. so like at 15x the dots now are 6.5 inches and not the 3.6 inches .. .. you have to be up on your math with the scope you get ..
mine is Mil dot rad with MOA turrets .. so not fun in a way .. but keeps the math skills up in your head ..

For a 1-6 out to 400 yards I would imagine there would not be a too big a difference, no?

 

[Acer-m14]

for a 1 to 6 the Mil rad most likely be on the 3x for using the Mil dots for ranging .. where to hold over .. so you would have be on 3x to hit target at 400 for zero setting say 100 yards .. if you zoom to 6x you could miss unless you do some range testing .. 2nd plane scopes

 

[Acer-m14]

i think i should say too would apply to MOA rat too .. same thing just english / metric ..

 

[96coal449]

From what i have gathered a FFP scope is better suited for target rich environments. Also more expensive.

 

[Exonautic]

for a 1 to 6 the Mil rad most likely be on the 3x for using the Mil dots for ranging .. where to hold over .. so you would have be on 3x to hit target at 400 for zero setting say 100 yards .. if you zoom to 6x you could miss unless you do some range testing .. 2nd plane scopes

I don't think this is necessarily true. I know for a fact most of the viper line of vortex scopes the reticle is true at Max power. It's not always somewhere in the middle.

 

[Acer-m14]

@96coal449 yes they are .. and not just target rich areas .. sight in at 100 ... target at 50 or 500 look at dope chart for bullet drop or raise and you know what dot to use at any zoom level ..

 

[Podmonkey]

I have an acquaintance that is into long range shooting. He spent close to two grand on his AR platform rifle then $2,300 on his scope.

Way out of my network.

Just give me a Mossberg mag fed 22lr bolt action and a $150 Redfield.

It seems to me that the gains in perfomance to be had much above th5w $1500 level is very much a case of dminushing returns. The $1000 level seems to be a sweet spot dor scopes, full features and 99% of the optical performances of the rwally high dollar scopes. I favor the Zeiss for it's 17oz weight and the Trijicon for its ruggedness and simplicity. There are many other grwat scopes to be had at this price point but the all seem to be heavier with no actual edge over these two. With maybe the exception of the SWFA 1-6. For an additional two ounces it gains a FFP. I am not all that concerned about focal planes though, not at this magnification level. 20oz is my hard limit, the Trijicon is right at (well over by a few hundredths actually) this limit. 20oz limit DQs a lot of scopes. The weight is important though, this is to be a lightweight field carbine, even if it will be benched most of the time. I want it to serve as the go to SHTF rifle.

 

[Acer-m14]

I don't think this is necessarily true. I know for a fact most of the viper line of vortex scopes the reticle is true at Max power. It's not always somewhere in the middle.

mine is in the middle power .. not a vortex .. but its something to be aware of with brands ..

 

[Podmonkey]

for a 1 to 6 the Mil rad most likely be on the 3x for using the Mil dots for ranging .. where to hold over .. so you would have be on 3x to hit target at 400 for zero setting say 100 yards .. if you zoom to 6x you could miss unless you do some range testing .. 2nd plane scopes

I don't think this is necessarily true. I know for a fact most of the viper line of vortex scopes the reticle is true at Max power. It's not always somewhere in the middle.

All the scopes I'm shopping advertise the reticles to be trued at the maximum 6x zoom, which simplifies things for the reasons I've listed above.

 

[Acer-m14]

all is good if you keep on 6x and can see out to 400 .. i can't LOL .. i need 20x LOL

with my scope at 10x ( mil dot setting mark ) at 50 the damn target is a blur to me lol
paper target ...

 

[Podmonkey]

all is good if you keep on 6x and can see out to 400 .. i can't LOL .. i need 20x LOL

with my scope at 10x ( mil dot setting mark ) at 50 the damn target is a blur to me lol
paper target ...

My vision is still good..... for now. But that is why I'm willing to pay the extra for clear glass. The better the glass the better able you can make do with lower magnification. When I get around to the SPR build someday I'll be putting a bit more of a substantial scope on it.