Lets talk Red Dots on handguns

[Edwardteach72]

Holy fuck..

Yea first like the first 3 min was advertising for safe lite.

Then it was about 30 seconds of pros for a red dot

Now its like "pros" in the sense of look at these... um he's calling it "cultural pros"

I legit can't understand what stupid shit he is saying.


Its bad

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[Will556]

Well I'm doing it, I'm watching his video for some reason

I couldn’t watch all of it. I stopped right after he posted all the real professionals’ comments telling him he a a fudd lol. His ideology is faulty. He’s blaming people on an individual skill basis; and not creating a real reason to show how the red dot itself as an accessories on a pistol is bad (which it’s not). This whole video is crap. At one point he stated if you are shooting at a target at long distance, you should never place the red dot above the target to get positive hits...How the fUcK do you want a .45acp that’s zero’d at 10, 15, 25yrds to hit poa/poi at 150+ yards?! That’s literally how ballistics work! No one in a self defense situation is taking a pistol and intending to shoot a target that far away. If someone did ever find themselves in that situation and needed to, that’s exactly what they would have to do to be able to effectively make that shot. Bullets don’t work like Goddamn lasers, from point A to point B in a perfectly straight line. It’s not like you’re zeroed at your chosen distance and from that moment on it’s going to be poa/poi to infinity distance. My mind is blown. With that theory there is literally no point for scopes to have any sort of bdc, because having to aim over your target to compensate for bullet drop is “Wrong” and “Super Irresponsible”.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Dude the video was just so bad but I think I triggered him on IG

 

[Edwardteach72]

I loved how he tried to use parallax as an excuse for red dots being bad In the beginning hahahaha

 

[togmaster]

"Jedi" is a fucking boss

View attachment 98146

He is. I'll be training with him this weekend.

 

[Edwardteach72]

He is. I'll be training with him this weekend.

Please please post up when you get a chance on how it is

 

[Edwardteach72]

"Jedi" is a fucking boss

View attachment 98146

@OnSight Firearms Training double fucking boss

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

*snicker*
Me and Tim Herron were discussing this privately about an hour ago. Yeah the dude is fucking off his rocker, but you know what? I think the more you engage him the more he feels the attention.
@togmaster I'll see ya Saturday. Email me and get me your contact info and where you are staying, we can meet up for dinner tomorrow night.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Oh for sure.. someone else deff got him to rrreee over shot timers as well

 

[Edwardteach72]

Damn and I see you offered to let him hop into one of your classes...

The amount of top level free training that this guy got offered in 2 days and he will ignore all of it

 

[Will556]

Damn and I see you offered to let him hop into one of your classes...

The amount of top level free training that this guy got offered in 2 days and he will ignore all of it

I’ll take his free spot in a NY course if he doesn’t take it, lol.

 

[OnSight Firearms Training]

I’ll take his free spot in a NY course if he doesn’t take it, lol.

 

[Will556]

 

[Will556]

He’s at it again. His logic is with irons, instead of raising the front sight you lower the rear sight to create the same increased angle to be able to make the shot at distance without occluding the target. If you wanted to you could do this same technique with a red dot. Depending on your target distance, that red dot would still be inside the optics window not completely disappear like this guy is saying. The dot is easily staying in the window at the 100yrd distance at which he shoots in the video. Also if you found yourself shooting at a distance where if you were using a red dot equipped pistol and the dot would completely go out of the window, you would now be shooting a pistol caliber at such a long distance that if you were using irons, there is almost no way you could 100% say you know where your shots are going with his technique. Your front and rear sight wouldn’t even be close to lined up and you’d just be guessing and lobbing in shots. Reminds me of the old technique of using a mortar. Just angle the mortar, drop a shell, and look for impact...than just attempt to adjust accordingly. Rinse and repeat until you’ve got hits on target. Watching and listening to this video made my head hurt a little bit.

 

[Will556]

He’s at it again. His logic is with irons, instead of raising the front sight you lower the rear sight to create the same increased angle to be able to make the shot at distance without occluding the target. If you wanted to you could do this same technique with a red dot. Depending on your target distance, that red dot would still be inside the optics window not completely disappear like this guy is saying. The dot is easily staying in the window at the 100yrd distance at which he shoots in the video. Also if you found yourself shooting at a distance where if you were using a red dot equipped pistol and the dot would completely go out of the window, you would now be shooting a pistol caliber at such a long distance that if you were using irons, there is almost no way you could 100% say you know where your shots are going with his technique. Your front and rear sight wouldn’t even be close to lined up and you’d just be guessing and lobbing in shots. Reminds me of the old technique of using a mortar. Just angle the mortar, drop a shell, and look for impact...than just attempt to adjust accordingly. Rinse and repeat until you’ve got hits on target. Watching and listening to this video made my head hurt a little bit.

The one part got me is where he is demonstrating show quick he can shoot while whining about something regarding shot timers and split times. He shoots three shots and then states that’s about as fast as you can shoot without outrunning a Nielsen Device (Booster for suppressor)...he shot that shit slow as molasses. I’ve seen full-auto pistols run suppressors with a booster. So unless he can magically physically pull a trigger that fast, which even Jerry Miculek wishes he could...I’m calling bullshit.

 

[Edwardteach72]

He's such a moron. I forgot until someone mentioned it, he did a video on how he doesn't carry with +1 because once he loads his pistol, he won't take the magazine out because now he isnt confident that it will be reliable

 

[BMF JK]

He's such a moron. I forgot until someone mentioned it, he did a video on how he doesn't carry with +1 because once he loads his pistol, he won't take the magazine out because now he isnt confident that it will be reliable

That makes zero sense ! I’m curious what was his explanation ?

 

[Phazer]

He's such a moron. I forgot until someone mentioned it, he did a video on how he doesn't carry with +1 because once he loads his pistol, he won't take the magazine out because now he isnt confident that it will be reliable

I actually test this very scenario with all of my pistols at the range. I rack in a round, remove the mag, top off the mag, and reinsert the mag. I then test for proper cycling (especially, the second round).

I've found that you must be very cognizant of the potential additional force required to seat a loaded mag against a slide that is in battery. If one tries to use the same force as when seating a mag into a pistol with a locked-back slide, the mag may not fully engage and either slide out or not cycle properly. Thus, proper preparation when running +1 requires that the operator understand their hardware and know how to check for proper magazine engagement before holstering the pistol.

I'm sure I'm not stating anything that isn't well known to those here. But, it's something for new carriers to consider.

 

[Edwardteach72]

That makes zero sense ! I’m curious what was his explanation ?

Something about how by putting the mag in and racking the slide means the system is working,
But once you pull the magazine out and put in a different one, you can't know if it will load or fail

 

[BMF JK]

Ok I can see the theory behind it . My 10 rd M&P mags are a PIA to insert on a closed slide , Glock not so much .
Plus 1 is done in a controlled environment not under stress , so not sure how you can muck up the mag insertion. Idk to each their own I guess.

 

[Will556]

Something about how by putting the mag in and racking the slide means the system is working,
But once you pull the magazine out and put in a different one, you can't know if it will load or fail

 

[BMF JK]

Now I’m thinking about it , I guess he wouldn’t recommend a tactical reload .

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ok I can see the theory behind it . My 10 rd M&P mags are a PIA to insert on a closed slide , Glock not so much .
Plus 1 is done in a controlled environment not under stress , so not sure how you can muck up the mag insertion. Idk to each their own I guess.

No he's legit saying that even if you perfectly seat a brand new magazine he still won't trust it because the system or whatever he called it (i won't give him any more views on that video other than the one time I watched it) has been broken when you removed the magazine the first time

 

[BMF JK]

No he's legit saying that even if you perfectly seat a brand new magazine he still won't trust it because the system or whatever he called it (i won't give him any more views on that video other than the one time I watched it) has been broken when you removed the magazine the first time

yeah he mentioned like the breaking of the seal or some shit. Lmfao. He also referred to not fully seating the mag on a closed slide .

 

[Edwardteach72]

yeah he mentioned like the breaking of the seal or some shit. Lmfao. He also referred to not fully seating the mag on a closed slide .

The guy is a complete moron..

I saw another video of his on why aluminum ar mags are better than pmags..

His reason is that polymer breaks down faster and that they are therfore disposable

But aluminum doesn't break down as fast and should last 200 years and aren't disposable..


MAGAZINES ARE ALL DISPOSABLE, the original idea behind the aluminum m16/ar mags were single use

 

[Will556]

The guy is a complete moron..

I saw another video of his on why aluminum ar mags are better than pmags..

His reason is that polymer breaks down faster and that they are therfore disposable

But aluminum doesn't break down as fast and should last 200 years and aren't disposable..


MAGAZINES ARE ALL DISPOSABLE, the original idea behind the aluminum m16/ar mags were single use

Good quality polymer or plastic mags work perfectly fine. Is he referring to the actual biodegradation of polymer mags? If that’s the argument, himself and a few generations after him would still be fine. A magazine would most likely fail from a spring, follower, or it literally just physically breaking way before it was to biodegrade.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Good quality polymer or plastic mags work perfectly fine. Is he referring to the actual biodegradation of polymer mags? If that’s the argument, himself and a few generations after him would still be fine. A magazine would most likely fail from a spring, follower, or it literally just physically breaking way before it was to biodegrade.

Yes he was talking about the molecular level of degrading and that aluminum doesn't degrade as fast as polymer so that's why he preferred aluminum


Oh he also said that if you drop a polymer magazine it will break and all the ammo will fly everywhere..

But aluminum you can drop all day and it will be fine and won't lose any ammo

 

[speedkills27]

Hate to break up the hate fest, but I figured I'll get this thread back on track.

I recently adopted a Gen 5 Glock 17 MOS from a friend who passed. When I got the gun he had a Burris fast fire mounted to it. After taking it to the range I discovered quickly that the Fast Fire is trash. The dot wasn't as crisp as my RMR, it flickered on recoil, The buttons were clumsy and hard to press, and it doesn't have a shake awake or constant on feature. Ever since taking the red dot class with @OnSight Firearms Training I've been itching to try a Holosun 507C, so I bought myself one for Christmas.

After doing some reading and Youtubing it seemed like the general consensus was that the weakest link in the MOS system are the plates. So I also ordered a C&H Precision V4 mounting plate.

This is a side by side of the two plates, the further being the stock Glock plate. The C&H plate offers 4 positive indexing points for the sight to mount to as opposed to only two on the stock plate.
Plate and sight fit like a glove and looks good too.

it filled the awkward space between the optic and the slide cut.
I took the gun to the range this weekend to zero and familiarize myself with the new optic. I only got about 100 rounds through it this session but on first impression its dope. The field of view seems much bigger than my RMR making catching the dot on a draw much easier and faster. Playing around with the multi-reticle settings was fun but I'm not sure how useful the circle dot or circle only will be in the future. Cant wait to get more rounds downrange and/or a class and really put this thing through its paces to see how it holds up.

 

[Edwardteach72]

V4 plates for the win