Looming north korean threat
- Thread starter Drinkthekoolaid
- Start date
We would have no way to know whether an icbm has a nuke on it or not. They have the capability to do it today.
At a minimum we should shoot down every one they send up.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Yep. What she said in that statement pretty much makes it sound like Trump is done with the UN on this issue. Serious stuff. This whole situation is a picture perfect example at how useless the UN is.
Strange source (so take it with a grain of salt) but an update on potential aircraft carrier deployments.
US mulls sending 2 aircraft carriers to Korean Peninsula | Asia | China Daily
US mulls sending 2 aircraft carriers to Korean Peninsula | Asia | China Daily
Arjuna
.338 Win Mag
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Sounds like appeasement though.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
NK won't ever give up it's nukes, it's not even on the table for them. The US will not except a nuclear NK .the way I see it, there is no other possible outcome except war. I do believe the US would use tactical nukes from the get go.
I agree with all of this except the tactical nukes part. I believe we would handle it with conventional weapons unless NK used nukes first, which I don't think they would have a chance to do.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Even feinstein is warning against NK.
The thing is in the US even the dems are war hawks!
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I wholeheartedly agree with your first assertion but not the second. NK will not give up nukes. Even if we get them suspended, it is just a suspension. Long term it is their goal, more important than anything.
But I think the odds the US accepting a nuclear NK are very high because it has not taken the proper steps it is capable of taking to prevent it. We are so close now to nuclear ICBMs in the NK arsenal. We've had many years to stop it and have not.
War is the only way to stop NK from having nukes. But I don't see that the US has the will to go that far.
I'm surprised still China is not doing more (assuming they can). If NK gets nuke ICBMs we are going to have so many counter-missiles in place in SK, on destroyers, in Alaska, etc. it won't be possible to take a piss without staining one. And that will greatly decrease China's nuclear deterrent. They don't want that.
If the US preemptively strikes I'm 100% sure it will not use nuclear weapons to do it. The world would go (rightly) absolutely ape shit over that.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
What was the saying? "Republicans want a large military, but don't want to send it anywhere. Democrats want a small military and want to send it everywhere." Something like that.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Honestly I never understood why people care if the bad guys die from nuclear or non-nuclear weapons. Everyone whines about Hiroshima and Nagasaki; and yet those same anti-nuke folks don't say much about the Tokyo fire-bombings where we carpet bombed the entire city and killed more folks.
A Forgotten Horror: The Great Tokyo Air Raid | TIME.com
A Forgotten Horror: The Great Tokyo Air Raid
TOKYO – On a clear night in March 1945, more than 300 U.S. B-29 bombers launched one of the most devastating air raids in history. By dawn, more than 100,000 people were dead, a million were homeless, and 40 square kilometers of Tokyo were burned to the ground. More people were killed in the Tokyo firebombing of March 9-10 than in the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki five months later. Yet it remains one of the forgotten horrors of the Second World War. About 700 recently discovered photos of the attack and its aftermath are now on display at a small museum in Tokyo.
“Even in Japan, most people are not aware of the extent of the devastation,” says Masahiko Yamabe, chief researcher at the Tokyo Air Raid and War Damages Resource Center. “But it’s important that people remember this. Seeing the actual photos helps people understand that most of the victims were ordinary citizens. Most were not involved in war industry at all – they were just regular people going about their lives.”
Few photos of the U.S. raids on Tokyo, which began in late 1944, were known to have survived the war. But recently several thousand negatives were discovered from the archives of Tohosha, a wartime agency that produced a quarterly periodical patterned after Life magazine.
After painstaking restoration, the photos were put on display for the first time this month. Tohosha was organized to provide a bright and vibrant view of Japan, and photographers avoided showing much of the death and suffering from the raids; nonetheless, the new photos reveal much of the grim realities of the bombings and their aftermath.
During the March 9-10 raid, some 1,700 tons of incendiary bombs were scattered across Tokyo’s densely populated Shitamachi (downtown) district in an effort to disrupt war production and destroy Japanese morale. The firestorm boiled water in Tokyo’s rivers and canals, melted glass and towering columns of heat brought down nearly a dozen B-29s.
The exhibition continues through April 8. All photos below are courtesy of the Tokyo Air Raid and War Damages Resource Center (click for larger view).
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Allies targeted civilians big time in WW II. It's called terrorism these days but back then it was called this is how you have to win a war.
Most people just seem to like the fact nukes have never been used except in WW II.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Nukes seem so much cleaner. You have people you want gone. You press a shiny red button and the people go away. No 1 million troops, no 50 thousand tanks, no 4,000 planes, no 10 aircraft carriers. Just one simple button and poof. It seems so much more elegant. There are 8 billion people on this rock. Cockroaches, basically. Press a button and there are suddenly 7.990 billion cockroaches. I just don't see the downside to this.
Fallout.... People you don't want to die terribly become affected. (in this case it would be SK, japan, china, Russia etc)
Nukes were way better until people understood radiation and fallout.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
You really responded to that drivel? Uhhh I mean bait. SMH
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
They used to do atomic bomb parties on hotel roofs in Las Vegas. Tell Japan snd SK to have roof parties.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
North Korea has stated it will use nukes to defend itself as does the US. American commanders must assume that they will and act accordingly. You cannot count on the good will of the enemy to refrain from protecting themselves.
It would be irresponsible and foolish not to use nukes in the attempt to save the lives of many people. you gain nothing if you let them strike first.
It would be irresponsible and foolish not to use nukes in the attempt to save the lives of many people. you gain nothing if you let them strike first.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Respectfully, wholeheartedly disagree. We'd absolutely be flying solo if we did a pre-emptive nuclear strike. We'd have the entire world against that action. We'd conceivably have at the bare minimum China knocking on our door, possibly Russia too. Dropping an unprovoked nuclear attack on China's border would 100% create an alliance with NK. Right now it is at least kept to a whisper and they are doing some lackluster diplomatic negotiating, but that all comes off the table if we drop the bomb on NK.
We cannot exercise our military mite with reckless abandon. And that's what a first nuclear strike would be. As stated numerous times in this thread there are other ways to utterly destroy NK without having to resort to nuclear capabilities. Remember, once we go nuclear there's no turning back. It basically says that nuc's are now on the table for any other country to use. No way would there be a good outcome once that ace in the hole is played.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
What are you going to do when they nuke our troops in South Korea?
Or the container ship going to NY or LA...
Arjuna
.338 Win Mag
Good news guys... It seems NK is only 6-18 months away from completing development of a hydrogen bomb.
North Korea could soon develop a hydrogen bomb more powerful than the atomic bombs dropped on Japan
Ugggghhh
North Korea could soon develop a hydrogen bomb more powerful than the atomic bombs dropped on Japan
Ugggghhh
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
His response was about preemptive nuclear attack. I agree doing that against NK is an absolutely terrible idea at this point. If NK nukes anybody, the entire world knows a nuke begets a nuke. NK does that, they are going to be flattened inside of hours and we'll see how those minutemans really work.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Precisely
Arjuna
.338 Win Mag
http://nypost.com/2017/08/03/why-china-wants-north-korea-to-be-a-nuclear-threat/
If worse came to worst and North Korea detonated a nuclear warhead above Honolulu, the losses would include up to 44,000 US troops, as well as our vital bases ringing the city — beginning with Pearl Harbor.
Who would benefit?
Not North Korea. We’d level that mountainous country.
Certainly not us, with our Pacific forces crippled to a degree the Japanese couldn’t have hoped to achieve in 1941.
The sole winner would be China — not even a party to the conflict. And that is a cardinal reason why Beijing will not help us halt Pyongyang’s nuke and missile programs.
Washington has deluded itself into bipartisan groupthink yet again, desperate to believe that, if only we better explain our argument, China will turn on its most important ally, North Korea. Our folly ignores the strategic perspective entirely: We don’t even try to identify China’s ultimate goals.
The central Chinese ambition is to become the dominant military (as well as economic) power in the Pacific. North Korea could fulfill that ambition for Beijing without the Chinese firing one shot.
Hawaii would top the target list, but Pyongyang’s intermediate range missiles would aim at our bases in Japan — not least, on Okinawa — while ICBMs also would target our bases in northwestern Washington state, from Joint Base Lewis-McChord to the Bangor naval base that’s our only Trident ballistic missile submarine sustainment facility in the Pacific theater. One nuke on Bangor, and our indispensable Trident subs are homeless.
But the biggest mainland target would be the complex of Navy and Marine bases in San Diego County, Calif.
With its active-duty population of 110,000 service members, the county’s the Pacific heart of our Marine Corps, as well as the home port for 66 irreplaceable surface vessels and submarines, almost a quarter of our current fleet.
Hit those three target complexes hard enough — Hawaii, San Diego County and the greater Puget Sound area in Washington, then toss in Guam, and China inherits the Pacific by default — unless we want to fight Beijing with our arms already broken.
Did I mention the Panama Canal? In World War II, the canal we built gave us a vital strategic advantage as we transferred forces and materiel between the Atlantic and Pacific theaters.
Today — thank you, President Carter — the canal is operated by a Chinese company that could close the canal to “all combatant nations” in time of war. North Korea has no navy to speak of, so that means us
Oh, Washington wonks will object that China would be too worried about North Korean refugees flooding Manchuria to let a war happen. Sorry, but Beijing is confident that the People’s Liberation Army could handle any footloose North Koreans.
Radiation blowing across the Yalu into northeast China? A small price to pay for an otherwise bloodless strategic victory. Anyway, the Chinese attitude remains the same as that of Stalin’s generals in the Great Patriotic War: “We’ve got a lot of people.”
Yes, the scenario outlined above is the worst-case version. But in the military, you always plan for the worst (a dictum ignored, to disastrous effects, in the US invasion of Iraq).
Any serious strategist with a grasp of history would describe our current responses to the North Korean threat as irresponsible. I’d call it frivolous. Certainly, that’s how Kim Jong-un and his cadres see it.
So we blunder on, fingers crossed, while the Chinese revel in our strategic blindness.
If worse came to worst and North Korea detonated a nuclear warhead above Honolulu, the losses would include up to 44,000 US troops, as well as our vital bases ringing the city — beginning with Pearl Harbor.
Who would benefit?
Not North Korea. We’d level that mountainous country.
Certainly not us, with our Pacific forces crippled to a degree the Japanese couldn’t have hoped to achieve in 1941.
The sole winner would be China — not even a party to the conflict. And that is a cardinal reason why Beijing will not help us halt Pyongyang’s nuke and missile programs.
Washington has deluded itself into bipartisan groupthink yet again, desperate to believe that, if only we better explain our argument, China will turn on its most important ally, North Korea. Our folly ignores the strategic perspective entirely: We don’t even try to identify China’s ultimate goals.
The central Chinese ambition is to become the dominant military (as well as economic) power in the Pacific. North Korea could fulfill that ambition for Beijing without the Chinese firing one shot.
Hawaii would top the target list, but Pyongyang’s intermediate range missiles would aim at our bases in Japan — not least, on Okinawa — while ICBMs also would target our bases in northwestern Washington state, from Joint Base Lewis-McChord to the Bangor naval base that’s our only Trident ballistic missile submarine sustainment facility in the Pacific theater. One nuke on Bangor, and our indispensable Trident subs are homeless.
But the biggest mainland target would be the complex of Navy and Marine bases in San Diego County, Calif.
With its active-duty population of 110,000 service members, the county’s the Pacific heart of our Marine Corps, as well as the home port for 66 irreplaceable surface vessels and submarines, almost a quarter of our current fleet.
Hit those three target complexes hard enough — Hawaii, San Diego County and the greater Puget Sound area in Washington, then toss in Guam, and China inherits the Pacific by default — unless we want to fight Beijing with our arms already broken.
Did I mention the Panama Canal? In World War II, the canal we built gave us a vital strategic advantage as we transferred forces and materiel between the Atlantic and Pacific theaters.
Today — thank you, President Carter — the canal is operated by a Chinese company that could close the canal to “all combatant nations” in time of war. North Korea has no navy to speak of, so that means us
Oh, Washington wonks will object that China would be too worried about North Korean refugees flooding Manchuria to let a war happen. Sorry, but Beijing is confident that the People’s Liberation Army could handle any footloose North Koreans.
Radiation blowing across the Yalu into northeast China? A small price to pay for an otherwise bloodless strategic victory. Anyway, the Chinese attitude remains the same as that of Stalin’s generals in the Great Patriotic War: “We’ve got a lot of people.”
Yes, the scenario outlined above is the worst-case version. But in the military, you always plan for the worst (a dictum ignored, to disastrous effects, in the US invasion of Iraq).
Any serious strategist with a grasp of history would describe our current responses to the North Korean threat as irresponsible. I’d call it frivolous. Certainly, that’s how Kim Jong-un and his cadres see it.
So we blunder on, fingers crossed, while the Chinese revel in our strategic blindness.
I 100% agree with this. I've been called crazy conspiracy guy for this but I honestly think China is going to play NK and use them as pawns. If NK nukes is in the Pacific we would be severely weakened and China would be free to do anything they want and we couldn't oppose them. Taiwan, phillippines, South China sea. Helll even invade Australia. China needs resources. take out guam, Honolulu, okinawa etc and China rules the Pacific.
If NK nukes us, NK will cease to exist. and that's also probably ok with China. they would have a giant radioactive contamination zone to act as a buffer between them and SK and they wouldn't have to deal with NK shenanigans any more. 2 problems solved. China benefits.
I see this shit going down like a tom Clancy book. China is far more strategic and forward thinking than we give them credit for.
I still maintain China wants to set NK up as a patsy to attack and weaken us and China can claim deniability and pretend to side with us as we turn NK into glass.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
If its being thought about here on this forum, you can bet your ass that it's been thought about and contingency plans have been drafted already. I highly doubt we've been flying blind when it comes to China and NK. Our government and the military industrial complex would love nothing more than a new cold war with China and NK.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I agree with virtually all the above, but how much more of a cold war with NK can we have? China, sure.