Looming north korean threat
- Thread starter Drinkthekoolaid
- Start date
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
I don't believe the Koreans fear anything. They're Korean. These aren't westerners. This is their homeland and they are ready to die for it.
I believe the 0nly thing they would respect, not fear, is actual force
Nk is basically armed with the same weapons as iraq was. So they are looking at that as us propaganda or poor leadership from Iraq. Ineither case they are completely under estimateing us power.
They understand that the US is casualty sensitive and doesn't have the resolve to take massive casualties ,they think the us weapons are bull shit.
In poker there's a saying that you can't bluff a sucker. A sucker is going to call you every time
North Korea is a sucker. Your going to have to show them a hand .
If anybody thinks they are going to back down, they're not. They're going to the river.
I believe the 0nly thing they would respect, not fear, is actual force
Nk is basically armed with the same weapons as iraq was. So they are looking at that as us propaganda or poor leadership from Iraq. Ineither case they are completely under estimateing us power.
They understand that the US is casualty sensitive and doesn't have the resolve to take massive casualties ,they think the us weapons are bull shit.
In poker there's a saying that you can't bluff a sucker. A sucker is going to call you every time
North Korea is a sucker. Your going to have to show them a hand .
If anybody thinks they are going to back down, they're not. They're going to the river.
masterswimmer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The propaganda the NK citizens have been bombarded with their entire lives, that the US is preparing for an attack on them has obviously been a false narrative from our perspective. This narrative is what makes Kim Jung Un god-like to his followers. Some NK's (a lot actually) buy into that narrative. Many don't. However, if the US and allied forces do use force to prevent further nuclear development it will justify Kim Jong Un's assertion that his nuclear development was the appropriate direction and solidify the people's resolve to protect their homeland.
It's a Catch-22 when it comes to the rhetoric spewed by Jong Un. Don't attack and he continues nuclear development and his propaganda is false.
We do attack to prevent further development and his propaganda is no longer propaganda, it is factual and his people look at him as the almighty prognosticator.
It's a Catch-22 when it comes to the rhetoric spewed by Jong Un. Don't attack and he continues nuclear development and his propaganda is false.
We do attack to prevent further development and his propaganda is no longer propaganda, it is factual and his people look at him as the almighty prognosticator.
I think they pot committed pre flop....
NK is not going to back down. I think if anything the one driving the bus right now is China. What happens next is totally in China's court. China has the option to take NK (or just their leadership out) and still maintain control and a buffer against SK and the US.
OR,
China does nothing, like they are now with the token political condemnation statements condeming NKs missile tests etc... And if China continues to do nothing I think Trump has no choice but to act. Trump has talked a tough game and moved asserts into the region. I think it would be a huge loss of face for him to let NK finish the job on his watch after he has made the statements he has so far.
So I think it's all up to China what happens next.
Interestingly, I think China is playing the long game right now... Geo politically they are not giving up their South China sea or Taiwan unification plans but they seem to be steadily building their military capabilities to be able to accomplish these objectives. It wouldn't shock me if China's thinking is to let us and NK slug it out with their secret hopes of NK inflicting enough damage on our regional infrastructure (guam, okinawa, japan, carriers, bombers etc..) that strategically the US is weakens in the western Pacific theater to the point where we wouldn't effectively be able to stop or challenge China's ambitions in the area.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
Pot committed, Lol
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
I'm today's news. Here's China's .02 cents
North Korea crisis could 'get out of control': China's UN envoy
And, president Trumps
Trump criticizes Kim Jong Un after latest missile launch
Excerpt from the above "The New York Times, citing anonymous administration officials, reported Monday that Trump told Xi the U.S. was ready to act on its own against North Korea"
According to this article it looks like NK has once again improved their technology and capability
N. Korea claims major breakthrough with first ICBM test
And..
NK may now have up to 20 nuclear warheads
North Korea’s Nuclear Weapons Arsenal May Have Doubled in the Past Year
So i stand by my prediction. Something will either have to happen soon or it probably won't happen at all and the world will have to deal with a nuclear North Korea as a constant threat. If we are going to,stop them it has to be sooner than later
North Korea crisis could 'get out of control': China's UN envoy
And, president Trumps
Trump criticizes Kim Jong Un after latest missile launch
Excerpt from the above "The New York Times, citing anonymous administration officials, reported Monday that Trump told Xi the U.S. was ready to act on its own against North Korea"
According to this article it looks like NK has once again improved their technology and capability
N. Korea claims major breakthrough with first ICBM test
And..
NK may now have up to 20 nuclear warheads
North Korea’s Nuclear Weapons Arsenal May Have Doubled in the Past Year
So i stand by my prediction. Something will either have to happen soon or it probably won't happen at all and the world will have to deal with a nuclear North Korea as a constant threat. If we are going to,stop them it has to be sooner than later
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Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This looks like their best test ever.
I would like to personally thank Clinton, Bush, and OBama for all doing absolutely jack fking squat other than stern words while NK's nuclear ambitions turned into what is going to be in a matter of months or a couple of years a bonafide ICBM nuclear threat. It appears they cannot tip an ICBM yet, but they will very soon.
Are we going to let that happen? It will. If we don't want it to, we need to bust up a bunch of their military infrastructure NOW. Talk is not working. It has to happen immediately.
I would like to personally thank Clinton, Bush, and OBama for all doing absolutely jack fking squat other than stern words while NK's nuclear ambitions turned into what is going to be in a matter of months or a couple of years a bonafide ICBM nuclear threat. It appears they cannot tip an ICBM yet, but they will very soon.
Are we going to let that happen? It will. If we don't want it to, we need to bust up a bunch of their military infrastructure NOW. Talk is not working. It has to happen immediately.
holdover
.475 A&M Magnum
It dosent look like China is going to do anything either. So the US approved a billion dollar arms deal to Taiwan as a barganing chip
.and is going to start sending ships there as well.
Between something and nothing happening, I'm betting on. Nothing
.and is going to start sending ships there as well.
Between something and nothing happening, I'm betting on. Nothing
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Nothing will happen. Trump Train is all show and no go. He doesn't have the balls to do anything about North Korea. Just another hot windbag from the business world. Trump is as wimpy as Obama; maybe more so in fact. I can't wait until we get an Eisenhower or Teddy Roosevelt type badass POTUS in charge someday to clean out the bad tyrants. Maybe it's a different world than the 1950's; where the world now wants those tyrants to exist and doesn't support cleaning house? Good thing I wasn't elected I guess - I would have made 100 neutron bombs and melted the NK capital while all the politicians and generals were in attendance.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Something will happen sooner or later, whether Trump acts or not. It's not all up to the USA. NK is free to act on it's own as is China or Russia, SK and Japan. However, we're in a somewhat tight spot with our posturing and rhetoric now. I think we have painted ourselves into a corner here. NK is developing REAL weapons and REAL capability and they are not afraid of us, if we haven't been using REAL threats backed by REAL action, then what the hell we are we doing? We should just stop trying to influence or coerce any other country starting now. We have been speaking loudly and carrying Nerf bat. Teddy would be very disappointed.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
We need to shit or get off the toilet. We have long since said only the major countries that already have nukes should be allowed in the club. Clearly a shit stain country like NK has no need for nukes and would not be responsible with ownership. So they threaten the entire world by building these. Nobody has the balls to stop them; and this confuses me. IMHO, Trump Train should give China 60 days to invade; and tell them if they don't we will. Then we load up 4 or 5 carrier groups and put them close by, and drop 500,000 troops in South Korea. We give them a week to hold free elections and imprison their existing regime; and if that doesn't happen we roll in. We also start production on 1,000 neutron bombs ASAP and pull out of any accord with the UN that banned neutron bomb building. We need to show the other powers in Asia that we mean business. Or like you said; we shut our pie holes and just let it all happen.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
We should do what's in our best interest. We should start with withdrawing from the UN and kicking them off our soil. If NK is really that much of a threat to us, which I believe they are, we absolutely should either shit or get off the pot. If we shit, it's a no-brainer, we do it right and take them down hard. We could try and work something out with China and maybe even SK to fill the void after hostilities cease.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
I agree with you about the UN. But how much revenue does NYC lose? Would our NY taxes go up to offset that loss?
I cannot understand why China is so reluctant to deal with their own back yard? What is their problem? Do they do more commerce with NK than with USA / Canada / other western allies? I just don't see how NK adds value to their lives.
Who made neutron bombs illegal? Those are epic. Kill the targeted people; but leave the building standing. You melt the entire political structure (when they do those military parades, for example) and just let the civilian population hold free elections and replace the government structure.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
The way I see it, China uses NK as a bargaining chip. It's a screw they can turn on us when they want to manipulate. China hates that we support Taiwan, so I can see how China would want to use NK in a similar way towards us. China also likes having the buffer on their border, which is why in my last post I mentioned having China and South Korea handle reconstruction should we take the north out. We don't need to occupy. China stays out of the fight and doesn't give us problems for going in. Shit we might even be able to get them to pay for the war, like they did Iraq, if we give them back a buffer state when it's over. I know it's more complex than that, but you get the idea I'm going for. Unless there are natural resources involved, which would then call the "threat" talk into question as far as our motives.
I can't help you with the neutron bombs. It's my understanding that the radiation impact is greater than a regular nuclear bomb, so if used the area would be unusable for a long time, even though the infrastructure is left intact. I could be wrong though, IDK.
We had a chance to have a real badass president. He was a democrat named James Webb. A highly decorated Viet Nam, Marine combat Veteran and former Secretary of the Navy. But he's a moderate and the democrats only want the most progressive as the republicans only want the most conservative.
Webb was the first democrat to drop out of the primary because he saw the fix was in for Hillary.
Dan
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
I wonder why Stormin' Norman never had interest in being a POTUS. Or Colin Powell. Not to minimize Jim Webb; but he was a Captain. So he barely got past his butter bars. I think that Generals get so much face time when a war is going on that they can use that traction to become POTUS. Powell could easily have been POTUS; but for some reason had less than zero interest in that calling.
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Something may happen, but the US has been in a corner for a very long time and not lashed out at NK so I'm not sure it will do anything.
We need to decide if we particularly care if NK has nuclear IBCMs. The official stance is we do, but actions have belied these statements. Is strategic patience over? Doesn't look like it to me.
If USA is serious about this it should flatten the site this missile was launched from and then tell NK unless there is convincing evidence inside of 30 days they are unwinding their entire program that it will have a total naval blockade and possibly attacks on military infrastructure. Also make best buddies with russia and china. Tell china if it also supports the blockade and locks the border down 100% to NK that the THAAD missiles will be removed and no more rhetoric for now on tough trade talk with china. NK can be brought to its knees without war, can't it?
The nice thing about a blockade is it means NK has no targets they can reciprocate their rage to other than SK, which would then be an attack on SK and invite a response. USA could officially do the blockade without any agreement from SK so that SK has plausible deniability. Japan also.
But hey I only watch movies and surf the net, so this may be a lot of bullshit
We need to decide if we particularly care if NK has nuclear IBCMs. The official stance is we do, but actions have belied these statements. Is strategic patience over? Doesn't look like it to me.
If USA is serious about this it should flatten the site this missile was launched from and then tell NK unless there is convincing evidence inside of 30 days they are unwinding their entire program that it will have a total naval blockade and possibly attacks on military infrastructure. Also make best buddies with russia and china. Tell china if it also supports the blockade and locks the border down 100% to NK that the THAAD missiles will be removed and no more rhetoric for now on tough trade talk with china. NK can be brought to its knees without war, can't it?
The nice thing about a blockade is it means NK has no targets they can reciprocate their rage to other than SK, which would then be an attack on SK and invite a response. USA could officially do the blockade without any agreement from SK so that SK has plausible deniability. Japan also.
But hey I only watch movies and surf the net, so this may be a lot of bullshit
Arjuna
.338 Win Mag
I don't see The U.S. agreeing to this one
http://nypost.com/2017/07/04/russia-and-china-propose-deal-to-stop-north-koreas-weapons-program/
http://nypost.com/2017/07/04/russia-and-china-propose-deal-to-stop-north-koreas-weapons-program/
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I just mentioned this before reading it about THAAD! I think it makes sense for the USA to agree to this IF china in particular stops fvcking around. We need a clear drawn out path that makes it very clear inside of a couple of months the cruise missiles will be loosed if something doesn't change. We are at the 11th hour on this and can't let it go into next year and the following. NK's program needs to be stopped and also reversed immediately.
As for THAAD, it is to defend SK and we don't need it ourselves
NK will never allow this. I'm sure that we will either see them get nuclear ICBMs or we will intervene militarily. They won't let them go otherwise. NK knows it's on the very cusp of total and irrevocable national security once it gets a proper nuclear program.
I have a feeling North Korea will be taken care of suddenly and decisively not too many months hence. Maybe weeks, or days.
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
Something may happen, but the US has been in a corner for a very long time and not lashed out at NK so I'm not sure it will do anything.
We need to decide if we particularly care if NK has nuclear IBCMs. The official stance is we do, but actions have belied these statements. Is strategic patience over? Doesn't look like it to me.
If USA is serious about this it should flatten the site this missile was launched from and then tell NK unless there is convincing evidence inside of 30 days they are unwinding their entire program that it will have a total naval blockade and possibly attacks on military infrastructure. Also make best buddies with russia and china. Tell china if it also supports the blockade and locks the border down 100% to NK that the THAAD missiles will be removed and no more rhetoric for now on tough trade talk with china. NK can be brought to its knees without war, can't it?
The nice thing about a blockade is it means NK has no targets they can reciprocate their rage to other than SK, which would then be an attack on SK and invite a response. USA could officially do the blockade without any agreement from SK so that SK has plausible deniability. Japan also.
But hey I only watch movies and surf the net, so this may be a lot of bullshit
Can NK be brought to their needs without war? Their population is mere chattel, so they couldn't care less what the civilians live without from a boycott / blockade perspective. They have no western infrastructure. They have almost no paved roads whatsoever. Their rail system was built by Japan almost a century ago and accounts for 90% of their freight transport and 70% of their passenger transport. They have zero electricity at night (the entire country has only 28 billion kWh of electricity - whereas in USA residential customers alone use 1,400 terawatt hours), less than 20 paved runways for aircraft, no cellular system whatsoever, and only 1 internet provider. So what do we deny these cave dwellers that they actually need enough to depose a tyrannical regime? I can't think of anything whatsoever.
I'm like you - net surfing and watching movies. Who knows what can really change countries like NK. We haven't effected change with Western advances in most of Africa, NK, Central America, or any of Muslim controlled Asia (Malaysia, Indonesia, places like that).
Snappo
6.5 Creedmoor
By who? Trump doesn't have the balls. He is so far in over his head that he doesn't know whether to shit or grow corn. He is beyond lost. His days are spent now doing idiotic and infantile tweets and getting smacked around for those by how own party.
Trump has accomplished more good things in five months than Obummer did in eight years. And he has assembled a cadre of advisers second to none. I believe he will not allow
NK to achieve the capability to destroy the U.S.
NK to achieve the capability to destroy the U.S.
spat
.950 JDJ
Are they capable of mounting a nuke on them ?
N Korea has proven they can detonate a nuke, but miniturizing one to fit on a missile is another matter entirely.
Honestly , I think even if there was a decent chance they could launch an intermediate range nuke, we wouldn't want to use any of our own.
Let's assume for a minute that N Korea *has* 20 or so nuclear tipped IRBMs. How are you going to take them out any better with nukes than you could with conventional weapons ? The hard part is finding them, and once we know the location within a couple miles (the radius a nuke could take one out) you can find it and hit it with an LGB just as easily.
Nukes are just not the right tool for this job.
Arjuna
.338 Win Mag
This is pretty significant to call these guys in with no notice on a major holiday
Blimey
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Dailymail is saying trump has called a un emergency meeting and will consider measured responses such as more troops in the area or sanctions. If that is a response I hope he just doesn't bother.
I think a July 4 firework show would be an idea.
I think a July 4 firework show would be an idea.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Honestly, I hope he either calls their bluff and bombs the shit out of them until they say "uncle" in every known language, or completely withdrawls and says it's South East Asia's problem. Once again, either the threat is that real and serious that we need to act or its a red herring and just more geopolitical bullshit not worthy of our attention.