Looming north korean threat

masterswimmer

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I think a major concern is Jong Un knowing that with any allied strike, impending fall of his regime, possibly him being taken out, he would have no qualms about launching a nuclear strike. If he feels personally threatened he could care less about the survival of the N Korean civilians after his demise.
 
Blimey

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masterswimmer said:
I think a major concern is Jong Un knowing that with any allied strike, impending fall of his regime, possibly him being taken out, he would have no qualms about launching a nuclear strike. If he feels personally threatened he could care less about the survival of the N Korean civilians after his demise.
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Quite possibly. I don't think he'd use nukes preemptively, under any circumstances because he knows it is his end, but the sort of guy in his position can't have a normalized view of the world, so if he truly feels he's a few moments from death he may rage quit this planet with some nuclear missiles sent out.

That's why it's crucial we either rip the band-aid off before he can get those or, once he gets them, just 100% embrace the reality of it and stop pretending we're going to do anything about it. Just let it go.
 
masterswimmer

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Blimey said:
Quite possibly. I don't think he'd use nukes preemptively, under any circumstances because he knows it is his end, but the sort of guy in his position can't have a normalized view of the world, so if he truly feels he's a few moments from death he may rage quit this planet with some nuclear missiles sent out.

That's why it's crucial we either rip the band-aid off before he can get those or, once he gets them, just 100% embrace the reality of it and stop pretending we're going to do anything about it. Just let it go.
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Exactly my point. Well said.
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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Blimey said:
Quite possibly. I don't think he'd use nukes preemptively, under any circumstances because he knows it is his end, but the sort of guy in his position can't have a normalized view of the world, so if he truly feels he's a few moments from death he may rage quit this planet with some nuclear missiles sent out.

That's why it's crucial we either rip the band-aid off before he can get those or, once he gets them, just 100% embrace the reality of it and stop pretending we're going to do anything about it. Just let it go.
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This.

We either rip the band aid off now, have some pain and deal with the problem before it is no longer an option. When crazy fat boy has 50 nukes and reliable delivery systems it will become impossible for us to attack.

Its come down to being now or never.

If we choose never than we have to be OK with a nut job having access to nukes, holding the world hostage and sharing all of his technology with Iran or anyone else willing to pay.

We are presented with 2 bad options.

Either there will be some pain now, or pain later. Choose your poison, but at least decide now while we still have an option. Soon that will be taken off the table if nk continues on their path unobstructed.
 
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"They can't start a war. Trump is so afraid of NK he would surrender the first day. He is as bad as Obama was."

I doubt that that statement is accurate.
 
Snappo

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Pale Rider said:
"They can't start a war. Trump is so afraid of NK he would surrender the first day. He is as bad as Obama was."

I doubt that that statement is accurate.
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They have been testing nukes and shooting ICBMs into the ocean. Well, and talking smack. Remind me again what our Trump Train did. I think he tried to shoot a test intercept missile off the coast of California and missed, and then had one of our ships steam around Japan for a few hours. Big whoop. We need an Eisenhower or Patton type leader with some actual balls. First we had a conmunity organizer and now some guy that builds golf courses. Sigh.
 
Blimey

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Certainly hyperbole re surrendering. As for trump vs Obama is trump better than Obama in his dealings with NK? I have seen no evidence so far. NK is testing tons of missile and it is during trump term that NK tests an icbm. What repercussions has trump given? He still might but so far he is proving absolutely no more effective than Obama at curtailing NK nuclear ambitions.
 
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How trump will handle the situation remains to be seen. It doesn't remain to be seen, however, how Obama handled it. A complex situation like this requires some time to sift through the options to make sure you select the best one.
 
Jmac00

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everyone is concentrating on a small geographical military operation against a little turd with *possibly* a nuclear option.

There are MANY other factors involved. Russia is moving thousands, if not tens of thousands, of troops into the Arctic. They have been for a couple years and they continually hold military exercises in the area.

China wants the South China Sea as their playground and they are building military 'islands' in the Spratly Islands chain. Most are man made islands and they are being used as radar/sonar stations. Not to mention this is a major commercial fishing and shipping lanes which is pissing the Phillippines, Taiwan, Japan and Vietnam off.

Trump will do nothing unless NK strikes first. Americans have no stomach for all out war with this little shit. So we will let NK strike first or more likely NK will do something stupid like "accidentally" hit one of our ships or launch an artillery strike on an SK island/territory. The only thing NK could hit with any certainty would be Japan or SK. NK doesn't want world condemnation by starting a war. That will just isolate them even more.

My prediction is NK will gain a nuke weapon, but they will be sitting there unable to use them because they do, they will hurt us and Japan and SK, but they will be annihilated within hours of a first strike. China and Russia won't do squat.
 
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4excal said:
I like the "Hogwash" statement:headbang:
Everyone carry on with your assumptions...
;)
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I like when people swallow all the bullsshit propaganda they can shovel..that a nuclear powered North Korea with over a million men under arms led by a fanatical regime and love of their homeland dug into some of the toughest mountain terrain, and are 100 percent sure that China won't jump into the fight on behalf of the Koreans, and can finish the war before North Korea can retaliate.
People who still believe that our anti missle system is 100 percent accurate. That our tanks are invincible. That we have the best infantry in the world.

Talk about swallowing the kool-aid. Go read what some of the professional analysts have said.

For God's sake were still in Iraq and Afghanistan after 15 years!

Just why would the US allow this to happen? Because liberals like Obama who over thew Tunisia Egypt attacked and bombed Libya and attempted to over this Syria with out congressional approval, without consent from the people acting in complete violation of international law are just to soft to attack Korea? Really? Really man?

Or might it be that the joint chiefs assessment of the situation is that it would have a high cost and unknown political blow back if nukes were used?that it's possible we could lose a lot of men?
 
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If the US and NK continues its present policy's I cant see how a war can be avoided. If the US allows NK to continue , what does Iran do?
Once it sees that the US will not enter into a major war , its going to do the same as NK .other countries may follow suit. Iran and NK having nukes is unacceptable to the present policy's of the US. Threat of force is no longer an option. If its going to maintain its empire its going to have to spill some blood.
 
Drinkthekoolaid

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holdover said:
If the US and NK continues its present policy's I cant see how a war can be avoided. If the US allows NK to continue , what does Iran do?
Once it sees that the US will not enter into a major war , its going to do the same as NK .other countries may follow suit. Iran and NK having nukes is unacceptable to the present policy's of the US. Threat of force is no longer an option. If its going to maintain its empire its going to have to spill some blood.
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Iran and any other loose cannon wannabe dictators see what happened to mohmar qadaffi and Libya after they verifiably gave up their WMDs and how that ended for qadaffi.

They are also watching NK get stronger by the day so far immune to any US or global repercussions.

What precedent is being sent, what message are all the totalitarian regimes seeing play out?
 
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Glenn B

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Now that Obama is out of office and Clinton did not win the election - the biggest threat we face is China not NK. Of course, they would be delighted if NK started and we retaliated giving them a chance to demolish us once weakened by NK and its other piss ant small country allies (like Iran).
 
ArmedCorgi

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Glenn B said:
Now that Obama is out of office and Clinton did not win the election - the biggest threat we face is China not NK. Of course, they would be delighted if NK started and we retaliated giving them a chance to demolish us once weakened by NK and its other piss ant small country allies (like Iran).
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Other than China's nukes, what threat would they really pose at this point? Yeah, they have us beat in man power, but we don't share a border with them and they don't have the naval or air capability to get them over here. Our navy and air force would stomp them.
 
masterswimmer

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Glenn B said:
Now that Obama is out of office and Clinton did not win the election - the biggest threat we face is China not NK. Of course, they would be delighted if NK started and we retaliated giving them a chance to demolish us once weakened by NK and its other piss ant small country allies (like Iran).
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Your scenario doesn't make fiscal sense for China. In 2016 alone the US trade deficit with China was $347 billion. Why would China want to shoot the goose that laid the golden egg?
 
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masterswimmer said:
Your scenario doesn't make fiscal sense for China. In 2016 alone the US trade deficit with China was $347 billion. Why would China want to shoot the goose that laid the golden egg?
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At first glance it looks that way. But what would the US do if China invaded Canada? Do you think the US is going to except Chineese forces on our border because of trade ?. That's what the Chinese are faceing right now. The last thing China is going to want is a unified korea where US troops are on their border. and Im sure the Russians are not to fond of the idea either.

I think the US is going to try a limited strike on NK takeing out their airforce and nuke sites and attempt to repel any invasion from the north so the Chinese and Russians can still maintain their buffer zone without being forced to confront the US. If the US attempts to invade the north they are definitely going to be confronted by China and maybe even Russia. All they are concerned about is their buffer zone. So long as we don't put troops on their border they most likely wont join the fight.

The Chinese arnt afraid to fight, back in 1950 they sent in 300,000 troops against the US knowing they had nukes. It was important enough for them to risk everything to do it. I have no reason to belive that they wouldn't do it again .
 
masterswimmer

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holdover said:
At first glance it looks that way. But what would the US do if China invaded Canada? Do you think the US is going to except Chineese forces on our border because of trade ?. That's what the Chinese are faceing right now. The last thing China is going to want is a unified korea where US troops are on their border. and Im sure the Russians are not to fond of the idea either.

I think the US is going to try a limited strike on NK takeing out their airforce and nuke sites and attempt to repel any invasion from the north so the Chinese and Russians can still maintain their buffer zone without being forced to confront the US. If the US attempts to invade the north they are definitely going to be confronted by China and maybe even Russia. All they are concerned about is their buffer zone. So long as we don't put troops on their border they most likely wont join the fight.

The Chinese arnt afraid to fight, back in 1950 they sent in 300,000 troops against the US knowing they had nukes. It was important enough for them to risk everything to do it. I have no reason to belive that they wouldn't do it again .
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The Canada scenario is a bit of a stretch. If Canada was threatening Mexico with nuc's and and China was allies with Mexico then your scenario would be similar.

No matter what posturing is going on with fatty and Washington, China still doesn't want Jong Un putting nuc's in play.
 
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