Mossberg Shockwave

[freddy]

Here is a letter apparently from Suffolk county police dept, again on the shockwave.

https://www.dark-storm.com/images/promo/0/SCPD-Shockwave-Letter-5-19-2017.pdf

Yes, it is only from a county PD in NYS.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The crux of the Shockwave's problem is that according to NYS law, it's neither a firearm, pistol, rifle, or shotgun. It's not classified as anything according to NYS definitions.

It is classified as a firearm by federal definition however. In NYS firearms are illegal unless exempted. Federal law supercedes state law when there is a conflict between the two.

So would the federal definition supercede the state one? If so, then it'll be illegal because it's a firearm.

 

[Exonautic]

The crux of the Shockwave's problem is that according to NYS law, it's neither a firearm, pistol, rifle, or shotgun. It's not classified as anything according to NYS definitions.

It is classified as a firearm by federal definition however. In NYS firearms are illegal unless exempted. Federal law supercedes state law when there is a conflict between the two.

So would the federal definition supercede the state one? If so, then it'll be illegal because it's a firearm.

If i remembed correctly, federal law only supersedes state law when no definition exists on the state level. Because new york has its own definition of a firearm the federal definition doesn't apply. New york laws reference new york definitions. The same name can not have two definitions. You have to think of it as firearm a and firearm b.

 

[GUNSICK]

Paranoia and fear are powerful emotions.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If i remembed correctly, federal law only supersedes state law when no definition exists on the state level. Because new york has its own definition of a firearm the federal definition doesn't apply. New york laws reference new york definitions. The same name can not have two definitions. You have to think of it as firearm a and firearm b.

I'm not too sure about that. If that were the case, you wouldn't need a NICS check because it isn't a firearm. As we can see, the federal definition clearly is being used here and would as well if a crime was committed with one.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

How would you describe someone who collects a salary for performing a task that they neither understand or care to learn about? I would call them incompetent and if they worked for me would be handed their walking papers.

Let me clear it up for you. Most cops have to know the penal law, criminal procedure law, vehicle and traffic law and sometimes the agg and markets law. Knowing all the laws in just those law books is completely impossible. Now ad in the encon law, State parks recreation and historic preservation law, navigation law, town ordinances for every town you patrol and you can start to see the problem. Now take a law like the old AW ban. The exemptions were in the back of the section and hard to find . Unlike any law that I'm familiar with - when I showed the officer he couldn't believe the exemptions were tucked away like that. Now take in to account, cops assignments and promotions changing what you do on a Dailey basis, law changes, some agencies are herendous at updating officers - either they don't give them any legal update training, or they cherry pick the laws. Some times it's a full day on it with the DA or a cop who is a lawyer, sometimes it's just a copy of the law. Now what about the small agencies that have a really low crime rate and call volume, who don't get the experience. Some laws are so poorly written, it's hard to decide to charge a misdemeanor section or felony section for the same offense. I have watched cops and supervisors read and re- read laws and have debates on what to do in a given situation. It all adds up. Hope this helps

 

[Marine Cpl]

Paranoia and fear are powerful emotions.

No paranoia just reality. Not everyone can afford to leave their families at home if they do jail time or have to pay legal fees like you can. Some families depend on the sole or majority breadwinner.

I don't know what your situation is but if I were single and lived alone I may think like you. Everyone's situation is different.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

You were surprised or shocked by this?
By your own testimonial here it seems many have no idea what's legal or not but would arrest you just to play it safe.
Simple thing to do is get off the high horse, believe in the 2A for all, no two tier bullshit.

What your missing is MOST cops are not gun guys and there are things that are grey areas in the law, others appear to be grey - like this current topic. Most cops are indifferent to the second amendment. They didn't write the law. But implying we should not take advantage of our exemptions, is like saying we shouldn't fuck the prom queen because she took one look at you and threw up in her mouth.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

No paranoia just reality. Not everyone can afford to leave their families at home if they do jail time or have to pay legal fees like you can. Some families depend on the sole or majority breadwinner.

I don't know what your situation is but if I were single and lived alone I may think like you. Everyone's situation is different.

Well said. Definitely not worth it for a gun, that to me is a novelty item.

 

[GUNSICK]

No paranoia just reality. Not everyone can afford to leave their families at home if they do jail time or have to pay legal fees like you can. Some families depend on the sole or majority breadwinner.

I don't know what your situation is but if I were single and lived alone I may think like you. Everyone's situation is different.

People are arrested every day for doing nothing, how do you get through the day? Stay locked up at home and never go out?

 

[Marine Cpl]

People are arrested every day for doing nothing, how do you get through the day? Stay locked up at home and never go out?

No. I just minimize my actions that may land me in jail.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

People are arrested every day for doing nothing, how do you get through the day? Stay locked up at home and never go out?

I have made a lot of arrests in my 20 plus year career - everyone of them claimed they were "doing nothing" - that is perp talk

 

[GUNSICK]

I have made a lot of arrests in my 20 plus year career - everyone of them claimed they were "doing nothing" - that is perp talk

I guess you were never wrong in all those years, great job! I wish all LEOs were as perfect as you are.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

I guess you were never wrong in all those years, great job! I wish all LEOs were as perfect as you are.

Why do you hate cops so much? Been arrested much?

 

[GUNSICK]

Why do you hate cops so much? Been arrested much?

I hate arrogance.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

I hate arrogance.

and obviously authority, rules, etc. My guess is you have had more than one run in with the police?

 

[GUNSICK]

and obviously authority, rules, etc. My guess is you have had more than one run in with the police?

Many run ins and they were all great experiences. They must not of been as well trained as a 20 year veteran like yourself.

If your retired why would you stay in New York? Is it the classic ex wife and you need to stay so you can see your kids.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

Many run ins and they were all great experiences. They must not of been as well trained as a 20 year veteran like yourself.

If your retired why would you stay in New York? Is it the classic ex wife and you need to stay so you can see your kids.

Who said I was retired? Who said I was divorced? You are one of the dumbest keyboard commandos to ever hide behind a screen

 

[Marine Cpl]

I have to have Gunsick's back on this. The problem with the police forces is that it attracts power hungry people that don't take the work they do as a job but rather they see themselves as powerful members of a gang that are not to be questioned.

Because of this is why I err on the side of caution with all of them because I do not know who the 3 bad ones out of the 10 are.

Those 3 would rather ruin an otherwise law abiding citizen's life that has a clean record to let the court sort it out on something questionable that has no impact on safety or order.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

I have to have Gunsick's back on this. The problem with the police forces is that it attracts power hungry people that don't take the work they do as a job but rather they see themselves as powerful members of a gang that are not to be questioned.

Because of this is why I err on the side of caution with all of them because I do not know who the 3 bad ones out of the 10 are.

Those 3 would rather ruin an otherwise law abiding citizen's life that has a clean record to let the court sort it out.

I disagree. Your allowed to have your opinion, but that doesn't make it right. The people who think the police are power hungry, are the people who don't want to follow the rules and blame the cops when they get caught. You can question all you want - except when your getting a lawful order. Then you have to follow the order. If you don't follow it and you cause things to go to the next level, that is on you - not the cop.

 

[GUNSICK]

Who said I was retired? Who said I was divorced? You are one of the dumbest keyboard commandos to ever hide behind a screen

Couldn't even find a wife, so sad. Oh well not really a lot of extra time when your out there defending us civilians from ourselves.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I disagree. Your allowed to have your opinion, but that doesn't make it right. The people who think the police are power hungry, are the people who don't want to follow the rules and blame the cops when they get caught. You can question all you want - except when your getting a lawful order. Then you have to follow the order. If you don't follow it and you cause things to go to the next level, that is on you - not the cop.

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the confiscation of lawful property because they don't know the law like you described earlier. I'm talking about the searching of magazines at routine traffic stops, the disarmament for their safety, the pulling you over because you passed them while doing the speed limit. ECT...

 

[GUNSICK]

I disagree. Your allowed to have your opinion, but that doesn't make it right. The people who think the police are power hungry, are the people who don't want to follow the rules and blame the cops when they get caught. You can question all you want - except when your getting a lawful order. Then you have to follow the order. If you don't follow it and you cause things to go to the next level, that is on you - not the cop.

Classic!

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

Couldn't even find a wife, so sad. Oh well not really a lot of extra time when your out there defending us civilians from ourselves.

Does your mom know your on the computer? Because no adult I know acts like this, it is actually funny - or pathetic

 

[GUNSICK]

Does your mom know your on the computer? Because no adult I know acts like this, it is actually funny - or pathetic

Your buthole is puckered so tight you can't even be funny. Give your ex and her new husband my best next time you pick up the kids.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the confiscation of lawful property because they don't know the law like you described earlier. I'm talking about the searching of magazines at routine traffic stops, the disarmament for their safety, the pulling you over because you passed them while doing the speed limit. ECT...

The situation I described earlier had nothing to do with a guy on a power trip. He actually thought he was doing the guy a favor by not charging him. The officer in question is one of the nicest guys you could meet. The law, in my guess, was written purposely to hide the exemptions in the back, to cause gun owners grief. I don't have a problem (and didn't when I was a civilian) with a cop disarming someone for their safety during an encounter - it is situation dependent and up to the officer, but I have no problem with that. Loose some friends in the line of duty or have people try to kill you for doing your job and see if you feel different. I've never seen anyone get pulled over for doing the speed limit, so I don't know what that is about.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

Your buthole is puckered so tight you can't even be funny. Give your ex and her new husband my best next time you pick up the kids.

HAHAHAHA grow up kid

 

[dubleuhb]

What your missing is MOST cops are not gun guys and there are things that are grey areas in the law, others appear to be grey - like this current topic. Most cops are indifferent to the second amendment. They didn't write the law. But implying we should not take advantage of our exemptions, is like saying we shouldn't fuck the prom queen because she took one look at you and threw up in her mouth.

My point is you should have no exemption.
It seems any grey area means you throw the person into the system and say fuck it I got mine sucka. This scenario has been played out countless times on many forums, good to know where you stand.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The situation I described earlier had nothing to do with a guy on a power trip. He actually thought he was doing the guy a favor by not charging him. The officer in question is one of the nicest guys you could meet. The law, in my guess, was written purposely to hide the exemptions in the back, to cause gun owners grief. I don't have a problem (and didn't when I was a civilian) with a cop disarming someone for their safety during an encounter - it is situation dependent and up to the officer, but I have no problem with that. Loose some friends in the line of duty or have people try to kill you for doing your job and see if you feel different. I've never seen anyone get pulled over for doing the speed limit, so I don't know what that is about.

I do have a problem with all that.

 

[Stretz Tactical Inc.]

My point is you should have no exemption.
It seems any grey area means you throw the person into the system and say fuck it I got mine sucka. This scenario has been played out countless times on many forums, good to know where you stand.

It plays out in forums because everybody is a tough guy on the internet, instead of having intelligent conversation