National reciprocity HR923/S498

[Celt]

Text - H.R.923 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2015

This is a very short read. And it explains that states that have restrictions on permits will not affect that person from carrying in another state. In another state your permit would be the same as a unrestricted permit. Also, it has a provision in it that all states would be required to issue permits to someone who is not barred from having one (this is how i read it, but ianal)

So when you email or write letters to your state representatives you need to tell them that they need to co-sponsor House Bill HR 923.

And when you email or write letters to our senators (I know it may seem useless, but we should be a pain in their ass anyway) have to tell them that they need to co-sponsor Senate Bill s498.

Both of these bills have the same wording.

The fact that both of these bills are already written and have a phone number of Coast sponsors means the process could be much quicker for president Trump to make this happen.

 

[Marine Cpl]

As I read it, it doesn't say that the state you reside in must issue you a license. It also implies that restricted licenses are still able to be issued by an individual state yet those restrictions do not apply to out of state license holders.

It looks like we are going to have to chip in and rent a cheap place CT for us to legally carry in NYC.

 

[Acer-m14]

I want Constitutional ... like already in heller adding carry into it also .. end this PP BS crap .. .. I already have a license for a 5000LB 4x4 death machine ...
when they do this
Fed.gov form doc 4473V ... voter background check ...
then i will bow down again ..... maybe ....

 

[Podmonkey]

I want Constitutional ... like already in heller adding carry into it also .. end this PP BS crap .. .. I already have a license for a 5000LB 4x4 death machine ...
when they do this
Fed.gov form doc 4473V ... voter background check ...
then i will bow down again ..... maybe ....

Thatbis the end goal yes. In the meantime we all should support this bill! We can go back and make improvements as needed, but we cannot keep getting bupkiss while we wait on some hail mary bill.

 

[Celt]

Well an attack on the pistol permitting process is absolutely something I would support but that's that's a much lower chance of any success compared to this.

Now as far as requiring states to issue permits, the way I read paragraph B on page 3, I believe that is the part that kind of sums up that states have to allow someone not federally barred from having a permit to be able to get a permit. But I could be reading it wrong.

As I read it, it doesn't say that the state you reside in must issue you a license. It also implies that restricted licenses are still able to be issued by an individual state yet those restrictions do not apply to out of state license holders.

It looks like we are going to have to chip in and rent a cheap place CT for us to legally carry in NYC.

 

[spat]

Text - H.R.923 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2015

This is a very short read. And it explains that states that have restrictions on permits will not affect that person from carrying in another state. In another state your permit would be the same as a unrestricted permit. Also, it has a provision in it that all states would be required to issue permits to someone who is not barred from having one.

So when you email or write letters to your state representatives you need to tell them that they need to co-sponsor House Bill HR 923.

And when you email or write letters to our senators (I know it may seem useless, but we should be a pain in their ass anyway) have to tell them that they need to co-sponsor Senate Bill s498.

Both of these bills have the same wording.

The fact that both of these bills are already written and have a phone number of Coast sponsors means the process could be much quicker for president Trump to make this happen.

As in national shall issue ?

Hallelujah !!!

I am assuming that NYC would not have an exception

 

[Acer-m14]

As in national shall issue ?

Hallelujah !!!

I am assuming that NYC would not have an exception

So why have the PP in the first place if you can pass the BC check .. but like i say . where is the 4473V for voting or protesting free speech marches .. ..
we got our guy in .. time to stop playing defense and coddling to the morons ..

 

[Celt]

As in national shall issue ?

Hallelujah !!!

I am assuming that NYC would not have an exception

Well, that is how I read it, but I could be mistaken. So I'm going to edit my first post just to be cautious but you should read the bill and let me know what you think

 

[GOPerfect]

I am against BGC's for gun purchases. I find them in themselves to be very anti-Constitution. I know that many here feel the same.

Question, if you are against these checks, would you be willing to compromise and allow them on every gun purchase in order to get this Nationwide carry?

 

[Phazer]

Wouldn't do a thing for us.

“(d) Rule Of Construction.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.”​

 

[spat]

Well an attack on the pistol permitting process is absolutely something I would support but that's that's a much lower chance of any success compared to this.

Now as far as requiring states to issue permits, the way I read paragraph B on page 3, I believe that is the part that kind of sums up that states have to allow someone not federally barred from having a permit to be able to get a permit. But I could be reading it wrong.

National shall issue would be a huge step towards constitutional carry.
Once everyone can carry, that reduces the opponents to defending bureaucracy for bureaucracy's sake.

Much easier to point out that if you have to give everyone who asks a permit, why bother requiring it to begin with.

Ultimately, constitutional carry is the only legally reasonable solution, but it is harder to get people to understand that.

 

[GOPerfect]

Wouldn't do a thing for us.

“(d) Rule Of Construction.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.”​

Maybe, maybe not. I am curious if this would protect CCW's if that individual had an out of State permit as well. Get your BS permit in NY with stupid restrictions, go to a gun friendly State and get one from that State. Be 100% legal in NY?

 

[Acer-m14]

@GOPerfect i would love to see gun sales back at the local hardware store, cash and carry .. like the story's i have heard of .. but if i need a BC then everyone else should have one too .. to get a driver license .. to vote .. to hold a rally .. and so on ... that is how i feel .. BC are worthless .. just a few days ago in Florida .. house broken into .. 300 LB safe stolen with like 30 guns in it .. the whole safe was taken ,... bet 100% a 4473 wasn't done ,..

 

[Celt]

Ah did i miss universal background checks in this bill? I'll have to reread it.

 

[spat]

Wouldn't do a thing for us.

“(d) Rule Of Construction.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.”​

It sure would make a federal civil rights suit for a denial easier though.

What we need is someone who can't be bought off by granting them their individual permit. Someone who is denied, and when the state relents and grants the permit to make the suit go away, you need to pursue them for damages, not allow them to slink away w/of setting a precedent.

 

[spat]

@GOPerfect i would love to see gun sales back at the local hardware store, cash and carry .. like the story's i have heard of .. but if i need a BC then everyone else should have one too .. to get a driver license .. to vote .. to hold a rally .. and so on ... that is how i feel .. BC are worthless .. just a few days ago in Florida .. house broken into .. 300 LB safe stolen with like 30 guns in it .. the whole safe was taken ,... bet 100% a 4473 wasn't done ,..

Saw an article recently where a local fed has a real 3rnd burst m4 stolen out of his car. That is an honest to goodness assault rifle.

 

[Acer-m14]

If the states have so much damn power WTF do i have to partake in Obamacare ????? WTF !!!!!!!! answer that ....

 

[Podmonkey]

So why have the PP in the first place if you can pass the BC check .. but like i say . where is the 4473V for voting or protesting free speech marches .. ..
we got our guy in .. time to stop playing defense and coddling to the morons ..

Jesus, its not playing defense! I wanna play a version of the succesfull island hopping campaign in the Pacific and you wanna go straight to nuclear armed paratroop cyborgs with teleporters! We have a chance to adavnce our rights, a real chance, in fact I'd say some form of national reciprocity is even likely now. Get the damn bill passed in whatever form will fly. No reasonbthe bill could not be ammended for further gains in the future. Gotta lay the foundation before you put on the roof. And national shall issue would be HUGE. Unpermitted carry would be the next step.

 

[spat]

Jesus, its not playing defense! I wanna play a version of the succesfull island hopping campaign in the Pacific and you wanna go straight to nuclear armed paratroop cyborgs with teleporters! We have a chance to adavnce our rights, a real chance, in fact I'd say some form of national reciprocity is even likely now. Get the damn bill passed in whatever form will fly. No reasonbthe bill could not be ammended for further gains in the future. Gotta lay the foundation before you put on the roof. And national shall issue would be HUGE. Unpermitted carry would be the next step.

Do not let up on any front. No reason we can't push this *and* national constitutional carry at the same time.

Take a page from their playback. "We want to repeal everything back though NFA '34, and preempt all local regulation. Well compromise on half of that this year, and then next year well compromise on half of what's left."

 

[Acer-m14]

@Podmonkey its like right now .. Heller say i can go get a pistol for home defence .. but here in NY you damn well know i cant with out jumping thru hoops and paying XXX dollars and then wait for a year .. but i can have 50 12ga autos laying all over the house with just a BC .. I just think they need we need to have a bill with a little more teeth in it .. some states have open carry with no permit needed ... Not here in NY ... from what i'm reading it looks like Trump is stacking the deck pretty good ..

 

[Marine Cpl]

Maybe, maybe not. I am curious if this would protect CCW's if that individual had an out of State permit as well. Get your BS permit in NY with stupid restrictions, go to a gun friendly State and get one from that State. Be 100% legal in NY?

Don't think so.

“(1) an individual who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the individual to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce in any State other than the State of residence of the individual.....

 

[Podmonkey]

@Podmonkey its like right now .. Heller say i can go get a pistol for home defence .. but here in NY you damn well know i cant with out jumping thru hoops and paying XXX dollars and then wait for a year .. but i can have 50 12ga autos laying all over the house with just a BC .. I just think they need we need to have a bill with a little more teeth in it .. some states have open carry with no permit needed ... Not here in NY ... from what i'm reading it looks like Trump is stacking the deck pretty good ..

I just want a path to practical carry in my truck ASAP. I am tired of worrying about getting my head smashed open in a riot somewhere. Truckers are right in the line of fire right now and because I drive through non carry states I am denied the means to self defense even though I have a license to carry in my state of residence. This needs to change NOW!

 

[Marine Cpl]

Do not let up on any front. No reason we can't push this *and* national constitutional carry at the same time.

Take a page from their playback. "We want to repeal everything back though NFA '34, and preempt all local regulation. Well compromise on half of that this year, and then next year well compromise on half of what's left."

I disagree. The Anti's have been very successful by chipping slowly. We need to do the same.

Neither side will win going all for broke.

We know their end game is total disarmed except for certain Fudd guns and only if you demonstrate a need like in Europe. Had they gone for that from the get go, it wouldn't have gone anywhere.

 

[Celt]

Will, did you read these paragraphs on page 3 of the bill? This is where I think the wording makes it sound like a state would have to be able to issue someone a permit so long as they are not barred.


‘‘(A) has a statute that allows residents of
the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry
concealed firearms; or
‘‘(B) does not prohibit the carrying of con-
cealed firearms by residents of the State for
lawful purposes.

 

[enigma]

While it's better than nothing, I don't think this is a great document. It leaves a lot to the states, and is going to make for a confusing national carry.

Here's the way I read it -

a1 says anyone with a state issued concealed carry permit can carry in another state under that permit. But the destination state has to be one that doesn't prohibit concealed carry. If the destination state does not issue concealed carry licenses or allow their own residents unlicensed concealed carry, then you are not allowed to carry their either.

a2 says the same thing, but it's worded for the residents of states that allow concealed carry without a license/permit.

b says any limitations or conditions imposed by your home state will apply in any other state you carry. The "or not prohibited by the State from doing so" is just referring to states that allow carry without a license/permit. What could these limitations be? Maybe number of rounds, type of ammo, etc. Maybe even restricted hunting/target rules. Section C below conflicts with this section.

c says if you carry in a destination state that issues unrestricted permits to it's residents, you get to carry under the unrestricted terms of that state. It does not say what happens when the state does not issue unrestricted licenses (if there are any). If would seem that you do not get unrestricted terms in that case. Section B conflicts with this section. How can you have unrestricted terms, if the hunting/target limitation on your home state license is followed according to section B?

d says the states can continue to control permitting of their own residents/non-residents as they see fit. The issuance of licenses/permits by states is not affected by this.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Will, did you read these paragraphs on page 3 of the bill? This is where I think the wording makes it sound like a state would have to be able to issue someone a permit so long as they are not barred.


‘‘(A) has a statute that allows residents of
the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry
concealed firearms; or
‘‘(B) does not prohibit the carrying of con-
cealed firearms by residents of the State for
lawful purposes.

Yes. Enigma explained it like I would have after reading it except for the conflicting parts he's interpreted.

 

[spat]

While it's better than nothing, I don't think this is a great document. It leaves a lot to the states, and is going to make for a confusing national carry.

Here's the way I read it -

a1 says anyone with a state issued concealed carry permit can carry in another state under that permit. But the destination state has to be one that doesn't prohibit concealed carry. If the destination state does not issue concealed carry licenses or allow their own residents unlicensed concealed carry, then you are not allowed to carry their either.

a2 says the same thing, but it's worded for the residents of states that allow concealed carry without a license/permit.

b says any limitations or conditions imposed by your home state will apply in any other state you carry. The "or not prohibited by the State from doing so" is just referring to states that allow carry without a license/permit. What could these limitations be? Maybe number of rounds, type of ammo, etc. Maybe even restricted hunting/target rules. Section C below conflicts with this section.

c says if you carry in a destination state that issues unrestricted permits to it's residents, you get to carry under the unrestricted terms of that state. It does not say what happens when the state does not issue unrestricted licenses (if there are any). If would seem that you do not get unrestricted terms in that case. Section B conflicts with this section. How can you have unrestricted terms, if the hunting/target limitation on your home state license is followed according to section B?

d says the states can continue to control permitting of their own residents/non-residents as they see fit. The issuance of licenses/permits by states is not affected by this.

There are no states that don't allow concealed carry. Just some that only give you a permit if you're one of the elite. If a state forbid carry completely, then they would be ripe for defeat under Heller.

Basically it says that a non resident gets whatever class of license you give A list stars and billionaires.

 

[Acer-m14]

bill acerm14 .... Crime Control Bill ....

all firearm laws are invalid ... period ..
BC and PP's are invalid and gone ,,
you can own anything you can afford or make
penal law on dangerous weapons are gone ..

ADDED .. FED Crime 20 yr min if you commit harm to a person with a object other then your hand ..
unless your grasshopper .. you get 20 too ..

NO PLEA DEALS .. your a felon with a gun , knife , rubber band .. 20 + .. thats 60 if you have all 3 on you ..

robbery with such items .. 20+ ..

ect ..

both sides win ... we get our fun toys .. the Rinos get crime reduction ..

 

[Acer-m14]

There are no states that don't allow concealed carry. Just some that only give you a permit if you're one of the elite. If a state forbid carry completely, then they would be ripe for defeat under Heller.

didnt a Cali court just do that .. no open and no ccw ...

 

[spat]

didnt a Cali court just do that .. no open and no ccw ...

They said your not required to issue, but since CA still does, it's moot. Anyone w/ an out of state permit would be GTG anywhere in the state.

This would then open up the localities that refuse to issue like NYC to equal protection suits. When a PA resident can carry in NYC, but a NYC resident can't, that would be pretty hard even for the 2nd circuit to justify.