Because it takes an army of people in various roles to prepare for a trial. The math works out, but not the reality.
This week there will be 3600 arrests and 3600 trials that took months to prepare for.
New York Jailbreak Law / Bail Reform/ Articles/Stories and Discussions(multi-merged thread)
- Thread starter MothMan
- Start date
Because it takes an army of people in various roles to prepare for a trial. The math works out, but not the reality.
This week there will be 3600 arrests and 3600 trials that took months to prepare for.
I personally don’t care either way unless my family is negatively affected.
This is shaping up to be a boon for overtime right as I reach the end of my career. It’s a huge win for smart cops.
But I am smart enough to know that it’s going to be a disaster for NY and it’s regular working citizens.
I wasn’t wired to support perps and criminal behavior. I’m not the best one to debate these policies with.
At least I admit it.
Any person that thinks this is at all a good thing for the good people of NY State is either an idiot or so completely ignorant of the ramifications that will come our way.
Like @Airborneguy , I will admit as well that I am not at all wired to support any of these people.
This is in FACT going to be disastrous for the good people. The crime, I do not care about them.
I have read a few people talk about SAFE Act arrests in this conversation. Wow, if that is all you can see, I truly feel very sorry for you and the ignorance that you live with.
As a reminder... This is a nearly complete list of crimes that will not hold a bail beginning in a few days:
Look at this list. Read this list. Remember this list!!
Like @Airborneguy , I will admit as well that I am not at all wired to support any of these people.
This is in FACT going to be disastrous for the good people. The crime, I do not care about them.
I have read a few people talk about SAFE Act arrests in this conversation. Wow, if that is all you can see, I truly feel very sorry for you and the ignorance that you live with.
As a reminder... This is a nearly complete list of crimes that will not hold a bail beginning in a few days:
- Assault in the third degree
- Aggravated vehicular assault
- Aggravated assault upon a person less than eleven years old
- Criminally negligent homicide
- Aggravated vehicular homicide
- Manslaughter in the second degree
- Unlawful imprisonment in the first degree
- Coercion in the first degree
- Arson in the third and fourth degree
- Grand larceny in the first degree
- Criminal possession of a weapon on school grounds or criminal possession of a firearm
- Criminal possession of a controlled substance in the first and second degree
- Criminal sale of a controlled substance in the first and second degree
- Criminal sale of a controlled substance in or near school grounds
- Specified felony drug offenses involving the use of children, including the use of a child to commit a controlled substance offense and criminal sale of a controlled substance to a child
- Criminal solicitation in the first degree and criminal facilitation in the first degree
- Money laundering in support of terrorism in the third and fourth degree
- Making a terroristic threat
- Patronizing a person for prostitution in a school zone
- Promoting an obscene sexual performance by a child
- Possessing an obscene sexual performance by a child
- Promoting a sexual performance by a child
- Failure to register as a sex offender
- Obstructing governmental administration in the first and second degree
- Obstructing governmental administration by means of a self-defense spray device
- Bribery in the first degree
- Bribe giving for public office
- Bribe receiving in the first degree
- Promoting prison contraband in the first and second degree
- Resisting arrest
- Hindering prosecution
- Tampering with a juror and tampering with physical evidence
- Aggravated harassment in the first degree
- Directing a laser at an aircraft in the first degree
- Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree
- Criminal sale of a firearm to a minor
- Enterprise corruption and money laundering in the first degree
- Aggravated cruelty to animals, overdriving, torturing and injuring animals
- Failure to provide proper sustenance
- Animal fighting
Look at this list. Read this list. Remember this list!!
Man, 60, dies after beating in $1 Christmas Eve mugging
A 60-year-old man who was kicked and punched while defending his partner during a $1 mugging on Christmas Eve has died. Juan Fresnada died Friday afternoon at the Bronx hospital where he was taken in critical condition after the mugging early Tuesday, the New York Police Department said Saturday.
These fucking scumbags have a good chance of not getting a bail. Go ahead, support the crims!
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
We all agree that the system is horribly broken.
It's going to take a lot to fix. But I think a working system would deliver speedy trials as guaranteed by the constitution.
First, we need a lot fewer trials. There are 2 ways to do this. Most of the things people are on trial for shouldn't be crimes. Get rid of that and you'll have a lot fewer to deal with. Many of the rest are for repeat offenders. If they weren't let back out so quickly, they wouldn't be out to commit crimes or need trials.
Bottom line though is that people are entitled to a speedy trial. Just because the current system can't deliver it is no excuse.
If you can only do speedy trials for 1800 people in a week, you should have to just let the rest go. Anything else is government abuse.
I will agree, the court system sucks.
What exactly is a speedy trial?
Many, I mean many, trials are not speedy due to the defendant. They put off and put off and put off their court dates all the time for a myriad of reasons.
Many of them would rather do their time in a local lock up then doing the time up State. If they are facing state time, all time held in a local jail or holding center counts. So they sit and come up with tons of reasons not to go to trial.
This conversation could go on forever with example after example.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
If the defendant is the one delaying the trial, then his right to a speedy trial hasn't been violated. Just like Sally soccer mom that wants nothing to do with guns isn't having her RKBA violated because nobody forced her to carry one.
As for what constitutes a speedy trial, I don't know. I do know that "months or years" is not it. I also know that currently public defenders are woefully inadequate to constitute an effective right to counsel.
The whole bail system is a tacit admission that they can't uphold the right to a speedy trial.
The whole system has grown so bloated that it is completely ineffective for both protecting the innocent and punishing the guilty. We'd be better off if they just straight up turned every other defendant loose so they could get the process right on the other 50%
The state should have a hard time limit before they just have to drop the charges. I'm not sure exactly what the limit is, but probably more than a week, and less than a month.
If the defense files some motion near the end of the window then the state's time limit gets extended.
If the defense is stalling to stay in a better jail, it's the judge's job to stop it, and the bar association's job to censure any lawyer helping him.
pjzwtl
.308 Win
Even worse I believe it goes beyond the victims info as it has been explained to me the perp now has the right for the full bios on all witnesses? Yea like that won’t encourage folks to just say I didn’t see shit.
This has always been the case. Throughout the process, the state has multiple time limits it must meet.
Who would want this job anymore? Is going to get nasty... Maybe all those legislators who voted this in should be forced to walk beats in plain clothes! Truly strong fucking kool-aid they're drinking lately.
www.metro.us
NYPD attacker released without bail – Metro US
A shocking attack on an NYPD officer has led to an even more shocking event: freedom without bail. On Saturday morning, the Sergeants Benevolent Association tweeted a video showing a man – identified as Steven Haynes, 40 – punching a police officer and wrestling him to the ground after Haynes...
www.metro.us
Saltwater60
.950 JDJ
Wait he was able to refuse to be fingerprinted? This is all around insane and you want to talk about demoralizing a police force. Who will want to be cops anymore? My 22 year cousins just became and Erie county sheriff. I feel for her. She’s young and beautiful and I hope she can survive.
Some 10,000 will be released in NYS. Now I'll be nice and say a good portion are choir boys! Lol... But there will be a percentage of hard core trouble, released upon the law abiding public, who are increasingly put at a disadvantage with these ridiculous PC laws.
This one takes the cake... attached it to the budget, no review, no discussion... Sound familiar?
This one takes the cake... attached it to the budget, no review, no discussion... Sound familiar?
Not sure why my thread was merged into this thread?
this thread is about the law itself...
The one I posted was about a specific instance of consequence in regard to the law involving an arrest and subsequent release of the suspect/accused.
If all posts as such are merged, they will get lost. Please review and reconsider.
Thank you
this thread is about the law itself...
The one I posted was about a specific instance of consequence in regard to the law involving an arrest and subsequent release of the suspect/accused.
If all posts as such are merged, they will get lost. Please review and reconsider.
Thank you
MothMan
.338 Win Mag
Tiffany Harris was arrested for allegedly attacking three Jewish women in Brooklyn on Dec. 27. With New York City adopting the new bail reform policies before they even officially became law, Harris was released without bail on Saturday, arrested for another alleged assault on Sunday and released again.
www.foxnews.com
New York bail reform under fire amid wave of anti-Semitic attacks
The string of anti-Semitic attacks in the New York City region has some lawmakers worried that a newly enacted bail reform effort at the state level could exacerbate the situation -- with reports already emerging of at least one suspect who was repeatedly released under the new law.
www.foxnews.com
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I predict... this will be the longest thread in NYGF history.
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Not to mention the 3600 judges and 43,000 jurors that would require if everyone had a 12 person jury.
repete
.338 Win Mag
All joking aside, I still can not understand how anyone could have thought this thru and decided it was such a good idea that they made it into a bill and then it was supposedly debated and considered worthy of becoming a law! HOW? Just how the hell can anybody really justify this type of blanket release?
spat
.700 Nitro Express
They looked at this and said "crime will go up, and people will demand we do something about it, and we will be able to grab more power".
Make no mistake, this is working *exactly* how it was intended to work.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
But my point is that doesn't change whether they wait 2 weeks or 2 years for the trial.
3600/day is still 3600/day. No matter how long you stretch it over.
There is some value in a little delay, since it averages out peaks in demand, but anything over a couple weeks doesn't get you much in the way of additional throughput.
Not to mention that the new bail law will make things *much worse*.
Take the chick mentioned in post #134 Tiffany Harris.
Now she needs 3 trials instead of 1. If they'd kept her locked up they would only have needed one.
There are only 2 ways to reduce the load on the court system.
Fewer crimes committed, or fewer people caught for them.
I think we can agree we don't want to pursue the second of those options.
So, fewer crimes committed. There are 2 good ways to approach that. Make less stuff a crime, and keep criminals locked up longer.
Fewer criminal statutes streamlines everything and reduces the number of people in the system.
The longer the criminals spend in prison, the fewer trials they need.
I don't have the statistics, but I would think it's safe to assume that the vast majority of criminal trials involve a tiny % of the population just showing up again and again.
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BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
Spat, what makes you think Tiffany Harris needs three separate trials (unless she's somehow been charged in separate jurisdictions, I really dont know much about the case)?
pjzwtl
.308 Win
My guess 3 separate crimes committed independently from one another?
They can address separate charges/incidents together.
There are numerous reasons why trials are not held within the week of arrest. First one being that most arrests never go to trial anyway.
Like I said earlier, it’s not 1875 where the law man jails a perp, leaves them alone in the cell, rousts up the local judge and immediately proceeds to trial. And that’s not coming back either.
There are numerous reasons why trials are not held within the week of arrest. First one being that most arrests never go to trial anyway.
Like I said earlier, it’s not 1875 where the law man jails a perp, leaves them alone in the cell, rousts up the local judge and immediately proceeds to trial. And that’s not coming back either.
Jmac00
.475 A&M Magnum
ooh ya, this "jail break law" is working like a charm
dailyvoice.com
Man Enters Teenage Girl's Bedroom After Breaking Into Northern Westchester Home, Police Say
A man broke into a Northern Westchester home and then entered a teenage girl's bedroom where he requested money, police say.The incident happened on Friday, Jan. 3 at about 2:25 a.m. in Peekskill on Seymour Lane,Responding Peekskill P…
dailyvoice.com
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
So what is the message here? Its okay to break into a private home but don't break the cop's window's? I'm mystified!
Robin
Robin
Toecutter
.308 Win
I honestly don't know the answer. This bill may go to far, it may have been better to do it in steps , we will see what happens .
You cant just lock people up untill you get around to a trial and you can't just set bail so high it makes it impossible to get out. It violates of the 6th and 8th ammendment and if im gonna stand behind the Constitution im gonna stand behind all of it not just cherry pick the first 4 amendments. Bail isn't there to punish people or keep them locked up its there to make sure they come back. They are not being let go scott free.
No one knows the facts of every case this is why we have trials. Im not concerned with the rights of a criminal my concern is with rights of the innocent.
You cant just lock people up untill you get around to a trial and you can't just set bail so high it makes it impossible to get out. It violates of the 6th and 8th ammendment and if im gonna stand behind the Constitution im gonna stand behind all of it not just cherry pick the first 4 amendments. Bail isn't there to punish people or keep them locked up its there to make sure they come back. They are not being let go scott free.
No one knows the facts of every case this is why we have trials. Im not concerned with the rights of a criminal my concern is with rights of the innocent.
96coal449
.308 Win
Bingo.
NY is being turned into the "wild, wild,'' east. Just because princess ass hurts is in pain it doesn't mean he can take it out on the good conserative citizens of NY.
I live in a rural area where crime doesn't happen often. But with the given current legislation, I can see this changing to a degree. My neighbor who has moved in recently is from a city. I'm not sure which one but I am guessing Amsterico. He is a little shady and the sherriff has already been here once removing boxed items from the back of his truck. He is consistently offering me "good deals" on tools and other oddities. I do not trust him one iota. I smelled that the day he moved in.
Since the response time for a sheriff to arrive if needed would be none to quick, this is my proposal since I don't see anyone stepping in to hang homo for the treason he commits regularly. Especially if this shit keeps up.
I will bring home my "toys" from TX. I will load each and leave strategically throughout the house. I will abide by the laws of the US Constitution. I do not care if the 2nd has been erased in the state's. I have family and property to protect.
This shit is so far out of hand, NY is no longer recognizable.
Just sayin
There should be preset amounts of bail for each crime. That way nobody can cry racism if they can't afford bail. If you do something stupid enough that the bail is so high you can't afford it then tough shit - sit in jail. The more severe the crime the higher the bail is set. Murder, rape and harming children should have the highest bail in my opinion.
Your last line is one of the issues.... Who sets the bails? Whose opinion do we use?
Should a millionaire pay the same bail as a homeless guy. This is one of many issues with the bail system. It is not only a race issue.
If the system is fair then income shouldn't determine how much bail you pay. Race/religion/income would be taken out of the equation.
Yes it would suck for the bail to be insignificant to a millionaire while someone else has trouble raising $10K. Do we want fair or not? One set amount puts everyone on the same playing field.
Make the bail limits state wide so the same crime in upstate is dealt with the same as it is in NYC. I'm not sure who we could trust to set the amounts since this state is soft on real crime.
Yes it would suck for the bail to be insignificant to a millionaire while someone else has trouble raising $10K. Do we want fair or not? One set amount puts everyone on the same playing field.
Make the bail limits state wide so the same crime in upstate is dealt with the same as it is in NYC. I'm not sure who we could trust to set the amounts since this state is soft on real crime.