NYSAFE: ammunition background check implementation
- Thread starter Tisto
- Start date
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Propane tanks are s lot more dangerous that gun powders becauseany powders will ignite in a can or jar that is a low pressure explosion. Rifle powders are no essybto ignite and they burn much slower than other popular chemicals found in many homes and businesses. The problem with oropane is that when the tanks reach the temperature of ignition this means high preesure and hot inflamable gases going off pretty fast.
Ok, let me try this again, because you misunderstood. The limits were not part of NYSAFE. You are correct. What I was trying to convey is that the limits are PART OF THE SYSTEM FOR BGC THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO IMPLEMENT. Better ? The BGCsystem is to be modeled after the system that is now up and running in California, with alterations to suit the desires of N.Y. part of that is a totalizer, counting what and how much ammo you purchase. Another part is somehow matching your purchases to weapons you own ( the stated purpose being so you don't buy ammo for a criminal, I.E. straw purchase.) How they do that without some form of registration is a mystery to me. Therefore, some type of registration is part of this new system.
ProgSpear
.338 Win Mag
I did databases for years and years. Once this is up and running, their dreams of a gun registry are realized especially as they will bypass or circumvent any federal controls. As Rush frequently says, “Don’t doubt me!”
BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I'm so confused.
Sounds like I should start buying ammo for calibers I dont even have.
Sounds like I should start buying ammo for calibers I dont even have.
Catskillkid
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Well, you can never have too much ammo. Even if that ammo isn't a caliber that you can use at the moment.
Ok. So then they would have to write a new law, like I said the first time.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
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Bigfoot
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Interesting article, thanks for posting.
I have often thought about storing ammo in a safe. But that means that I would have to buy yet another safe.
Plus all that weight concentrated in one spot. Maybe I won't store any ammo in cans.. IDK
With all due respect there is some language in the article that always sets off red flags for me no matter what the source is.
I have nothing but the upmost respect for FF's and I am not trying to corner you so please don't take this the wrong way.
First off I found the article informative in ways and I am in no position to question a FF's knowledge of their work.
But these type of things below make me question what I am reading.
1.) "There was a case where a loaded semi-automatic rifle was in a wall rack during a fire. The heat caused the rifle to go off, and it continued to fire until the magazine was empty."
"continued to fire until the magazine was empty?" How can that happen with a semi auto?
Maybe someone here with more knowledge than I can explain how if true... IDK
2.) "ammunition had been stored in three metal, (military-style) ammunition cans, which were kept inside a metal footlocker. “It was actually stored better than probably 90 percent of people would store their ammunition,"
Um wait a minute... First, the term (Military-Style) always makes my red flags go up.
Second,,, What good is a metal foot locker going to do? It seems to me it would add to the problem if the metal ammo cans cause the ammo to explode as he says.
Third,,, I just read in the article that the ammo stored (in cans) is what causes ammo to explode. ... That's what the article said.
So the sentence " It was actually stored better (meaning 3 metal cans in a metal foot locker) than probably 90 percent of people would store their ammunition." --- That makes no sense.
He is contradicting himself right there... Everyone following me so far? ... That part makes no sense IMHO.
3.) "Oatman said he’s dealt with exploding ammunition a handful of times in his 25-year career with the Fire Department. “It’s not completely uncommon.
How many structure fire calls has he gone out on in 25 years? I would think that would add up to a lot of calls over 25 years of service. But he says that he has only dealt with exploding ammo a handful of times. In his 25 years of service that averages out to exploding ammo scenarios once every 5 years at the most. To me a handful of times can mean around 5 so it could be less. It could be once every 10 years or so.
So to me anyway, that would be uncommon instead of “It’s not completely uncommon." as he says.
Still with me? ... Are you all picking up what I am putting down? ... Am I just cherry picking at this point?
5.) "I'm not a gun kind of guy. I'm more of a fun kind of guy or what some of you might call a fungi, but that's another story... I don't have much reason to own a gun nor store ammunition, living in suburbia where hunting for my food is pretty much limited to hunting for a parking spot close to the front of the grocery store."
He says that he doesn't have much reason to own a gun...
How about self defense of himself and his family... That's a good reason IMO.
IDK but for myself I am picking up hints of anti gun and some fear mongering also in that article.
I think that I will go with my 14 year veteran FF friends attitude about ammo storage.
Which is... Meh.
Not a FF from California that seems to have a bias.
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Bigfoot
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Interesting video... And there it is.
"Ammo is less of a risk than many household products."
Pretty much what my volunteer FF friend said.
My FIL was a professional firefighter in Batavia NY for 26 years.
I would love to listen about his fire fighting experiences from him.
Especially the ones about rescuing people from burning buildings.
Those ones would put me on the edge of my seat.
Sounds like such an exiting career.
Never once do I remember him talking about exploding ammo though.
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Bigfoot
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I have some ammo for a gun that I was going to buy (I couldn't pass up the good price on the ammo) and then I had to unexpectedly get another transmission for my truck. Then after that, a unexpected expensive veterinarian bill. So plans did not go as planned and I wasn't able to afford the new gun because of that... Maybe in a month or two I can buy it.
For now, I have a case of ammo and no gun for it... LOL
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BDinPutnam
.475 A&M Magnum
I could see (maybe) how a semi with a chambered round could cook off one round and rechamber, I guess. How it would continue to cook off from there (actually firing) is a question for people better versed in physics than me. Generally loose ammo that cooks off the case is going to go flying, not the bullet- because the case weighs less than the bullet and doesn't have that whole annoying heavy firearm/bolt/etc blocking the case from flying backwards.
Steal2B
.700 Nitro Express
My Fire training included responses to fires involving munitions, both civilian and military. Sporting ammunition in a house or business fire is not an issue for a real qualified fire fighter.
These are just some brief videos but longer training videos are on YouTube
These are just some brief videos but longer training videos are on YouTube
So they might be talking about this but it will be awhile before it goes into place. It will go into place and I figured it would after CA advertised it's check system in the springtime but it is going to be years before they can figure this all out. It is an egg on Cuomo's face that he never got the funding together for this back when he rammed the SAFE act through the legislatures.
Hurtles they have to get over before we see this:
1) Funding --> They need a whole new system for doing this. They will need the money to do this. The NICs system is for firearms transactions and the FBI reminded NYS of this when they started to get calls from dumbass gun shop owners back in 2014 who were calling in a NICs on someone and when it came to the section of the 4473 stating what they person was buying Ammunition is not a part of it. Guess what... there are only three boxes to check and ammunition is not one of them. Ask any BATF person and they will tell you the ONLY time you do a NICs if for a firearm transaction. NYS can't just use the easy answer an say do a NICs because they already tried and the Feds told them to go blow.
2) Staffing --> No offense to state workers but the IT folks there are mediocre at best. NYS outsources much of what you see on it's public facing websites. Most of the technology used by the state agencies are outdated and it will need to this. Development for systems like this take along time. Building the database is going to be an uphill battle for sure. It will take years just to get all the data there and the data right. They will need to hire teams of people for this. The guy who said he will be gone in 24 months isn't going to have to worry about anything because i doubt we see anything close to this being tested in 4 years and that is with smart IT people.
3) Infrastructure --> You will need power house servers, storage and big pipes to talk out to the net. This goes back to money. This shit wont be cheap to build or to maintain. We are not talking one server with a dsl modem here we are talking multiple boxes large amounts of storage and not to mention space for backups. Don;t forget you firewalls and routers. Along with that you have OS licensing, software licensing, hardware cost ISP costs and man hours.
4) Legislation --> THere will be changes in the way dealers have to do business. That will require rewriting the laws and polices around that.
Let the state talk about this. mLet them have their fun and let them do their thing with spending money and when the budget proposal is made let the "lawmakers" argue over it and watch them try to find money for it by taking money away from some other social program.
In the meantime either leave the state or stock up on reloading supplies. You will have the next few years to do it but do't fall asleep at the wheel.
Or get a DBA and start an FFL business.
Hurtles they have to get over before we see this:
1) Funding --> They need a whole new system for doing this. They will need the money to do this. The NICs system is for firearms transactions and the FBI reminded NYS of this when they started to get calls from dumbass gun shop owners back in 2014 who were calling in a NICs on someone and when it came to the section of the 4473 stating what they person was buying Ammunition is not a part of it. Guess what... there are only three boxes to check and ammunition is not one of them. Ask any BATF person and they will tell you the ONLY time you do a NICs if for a firearm transaction. NYS can't just use the easy answer an say do a NICs because they already tried and the Feds told them to go blow.
2) Staffing --> No offense to state workers but the IT folks there are mediocre at best. NYS outsources much of what you see on it's public facing websites. Most of the technology used by the state agencies are outdated and it will need to this. Development for systems like this take along time. Building the database is going to be an uphill battle for sure. It will take years just to get all the data there and the data right. They will need to hire teams of people for this. The guy who said he will be gone in 24 months isn't going to have to worry about anything because i doubt we see anything close to this being tested in 4 years and that is with smart IT people.
3) Infrastructure --> You will need power house servers, storage and big pipes to talk out to the net. This goes back to money. This shit wont be cheap to build or to maintain. We are not talking one server with a dsl modem here we are talking multiple boxes large amounts of storage and not to mention space for backups. Don;t forget you firewalls and routers. Along with that you have OS licensing, software licensing, hardware cost ISP costs and man hours.
4) Legislation --> THere will be changes in the way dealers have to do business. That will require rewriting the laws and polices around that.
Let the state talk about this. mLet them have their fun and let them do their thing with spending money and when the budget proposal is made let the "lawmakers" argue over it and watch them try to find money for it by taking money away from some other social program.
In the meantime either leave the state or stock up on reloading supplies. You will have the next few years to do it but do't fall asleep at the wheel.
Or get a DBA and start an FFL business.
vanderblack
.357 mag
I agree with you 100%. I don't feel cornered. The chief simply pointed me to this article as a reference. Bottom line, ammo in a cardboard box going off from heat is not going to do much. Ammo contained in a metal (military style) ammo can (lol) will cause an explosion and most likely throw shrapnel around. I think the use of the words 'military style' to describe the metal container was more to identify the container type for the reader. It was not just a metal container but rather, the type with a hinge and fairly heavy latch.
Kirk_STNY
.45 acp
Looks like we will be reduced 22 Shorts!!!
Acer-m14
.950 JDJ
the only real issue with ammo in a fire is the ammo in the chamber of a fire arm .. its all going on one direction and a hell of a faster then from a box
RDN
.357 mag
GoodGuywitha9mm
.45 acp
Don't count on it. I have a PIN, because of a Deputy Sheriff that took custody of a B F I had arrested for transport to jail screwed me for life. The Deputy had put my SSN in her spot (and vice-versa) on the report. I tried to get it expunged, reversed, anything to remove my SSN from the arrest of a B F, to no avail. I applied for the PIN because I consistently was getting "needs further review". Even with the PIN it has happened, so I re-read the info on the PIN, and it states on the FBI VAF Form "Entry into the VAF will not automatically result in a proceed response on subsequent purchases".
So glad I went through all that trouble... This person was a B F, and I am a W M. I can see how they are confused lol.
pjzwtl
.308 Win
Yes ammo popping off is of little concern there are much more effective ways to get fubar on an interior attack. In fact the gas’s off from the cheap Chinese furniture is more worrisome.
I closed my shop and got the hell out of NY 3 yrs. ago. Of of now i don't need a CWP to buy a handgun but have one to carry concealed. It takes about 20 minutes to do a BGC, pay and walk out the door with a handgun. I have a CWP but none of the guns I have are listed on it and don't have to be. It seems so good to be in a free state.
For now....
Paperpunch
.40 S&W
Re: Exploding Ammo
Without a barrel to give the boolits some velocity, they just pop out of the case and will not penetrate walls, doors, etc. This is not a thing.
Without a barrel to give the boolits some velocity, they just pop out of the case and will not penetrate walls, doors, etc. This is not a thing.
camper4lyfe
.308 Win
It’s basic physics. Action and reaction. The bullet will barely move while the brass will disappear.
Myth busters did an episode on this.
It's been 3+ yrs. in a free state which is better than spending the past 3 yrs. in NY.
Wraith
.45 acp
Black Market Blackpowder.
TMC
.40 S&W
Brother just had to bust your chops "boolits" from a member named Paperpunch on a gun forum priceless