Ruger Carbine Takedown !

[Robin]

If it took SIG mag's it would be damn near perfect, well, that and a .40, .45 cal..
Robin

 

[FLA45fan]

It is a mistake even for a 223, 5.56. The reason is because the minor diameter of the thread is too small leaving little amount of material and support opening the door for crown
swelling over time. There is no way to stress relief the alloy after the machining so with use and heat the bore dimension is going to change at the muzzle. That is why a 5/8"x24 standard is a better thread up to 30 caliber and for larger calibers like 338 and 35 in this case a 3/4" thread is a better idea.
This is why some high end 338 precision rifles do not even use 5/8"x24 threads and use 3/4x24 threads instead.
The 1/2" threads would be perfect for a 204 or 17 calibers.
If one wants to use a 1/2" threads brake given there is enough opening for the caliber, I would have the barrel threaded to 3/4"x24 and then put
a small extension from 3/4 to 1/2 and here it doesn't matter because the 1/2" threads minor diameter will not be on the barrel and this critical area of the rifle.
For the 223 Remington is easy, one has plentiful 5/8" brakes and some makers sell the barrels with those threads including quality AR15 barrels.

Did I answer your question?

Ah yes you have somewhat answered my question ( your technical knowledge still amazes me!) I get why that is all better, but my point is 1/2 x 28 seems to be the standard offering for 9mm cans. I didn't see why that was a mistake marketing wise. Seems most cans out there would be a good fit.

 

[FLA45fan]

I think they a bit late but they have been listening and responded and also a firearm well made is not something you want to rush like others do.
I hope they release barrels and bolts for other popular rifles including the bottom for larger magazines like the 5.7FN.
I would love to have one in the tokarev cartrige or 9x25 dillon.
If they offer the extension and hand-guards for alternative calibers those would sell like peanuts IMO.

Unfortunately I don't see them doing this. I think they will leave all the caliber swapping to the AR platforms and just stick with 9, possibly followed by 45ACP and then maybe 40, ala Beretta cx4. 9mm being the most popular today, followed by 45. We are currently seeing a decline in 40s popularity, so my guess is that they might not even bring one out. The PC40 didn't sell well when it was available even though the caliber was up and coming at the time.

 

[FLA45fan]

I'd like to see an ultra stealth case/bag for this too.

When I had mine I kept it in a lacrosse stick bag. I didn't have a permit at the time and traveled between two places in the state. It was my home defense firearm, topped with a Burris Fastfire III, (which I removed when I sold it just weeks ago and can't find now. I hate getting old.)

 

[FLA45fan]

Damn, I just remembered that I left the butt stock mag pouch on it too! $#!+ that would have been perfect again. Dammit Dammit Dammit!

 

[Podmonkey]

If it took SIG mag's it would be damn near perfect, well, that and a .40, .45 cal..
Robin

Unfortunately I don't see them doing this. I think they will leave all the caliber swapping to the AR platforms and just stick with 9, possibly followed by 45ACP and then maybe 40, ala Beretta cx4. 9mm being the most popular today, followed by 45. We are currently seeing a decline in 40s popularity, so my guess is that they might not even bring one out. The PC40 didn't sell well when it was available even though the caliber was up and coming at the time.

I'd bet a thousand bucks a .40 S&W version will be released shortly. If a .45 ACP version is in the cards it will be released a year after the .40 version. That's been the caliber pattern lately.

As for mags.... Y'all see how Ruger has done the magwell? There is a plastic collar that nests into the outer magwell body and its this collar that creates the necessary feed geometry and fitment to make the different mags work. Given the ease of designing and producing polymer parts I'd also bet money we will see other popular magazine options such as SIG and Berretta, possibly S&W. It would be a smart move on Ruger's part, they have a golden opportunity here to make their "new" carbine the universal go to option. As I have illustrated above its sitting at a "feature nexus". Its even readily produced as a ban state friendly model by simply leaving off the barrel threads, which is the model I'd even want! I'd like the non threaded version but I'd also like to see an integrally suppressed barrel that can be swapped onto the standard reciever.

 

[BuffNiag]

A big FU to the safe act. I see one of these in my future.

 

[FLA45fan]

I don't know Pod, with all of the new releases from Ruger ( LC9, EC9S, Ruger American Pistol) it looks like they are committed to the 9 and 45 platforms and almost ignoring the 40. Add to it that practically every gun rag is talking about the lessening popularity of the 40 and a resurgence of the nine in law enforcement.
Now, I will admit that I have never been a 40 fan - "It answers the unasked question of why we need it." As a matter of fact I am very old school about all the calibers. "Don't need 40S&W, 357 Sig, or 45GAP. Change the frame or up the power and get same results." Same thing with all the rifle calibers, WSM, WSSM, 17HSM, blah blah blah" you can get it done with 22LR, 22 Mag, 223, 243, 270, 308, 30-06 , 7mm Mag. With possibly the exception being some of the ultra long range "long range target/ sniper" calibers.
The previous is, without a doubt, my humble opinion!!
The magwell adapter is absolute genius! And integrated suppression . . . If Ruger doesn't, someone else is already working on it.

 

[Podmonkey]

I don't know Pod, with all of the new releases from Ruger ( LC9, EC9S, Ruger American Pistol) it looks like they are committed to the 9 and 45 platforms and almost ignoring the 40. Add to it that practically every gun rag is talking about the lessening popularity of the 40 and a resurgence of the nine in law enforcement.
Now, I will admit that I have never been a 40 fan - "It answers the unasked question of why we need it." As a matter of fact I am very old school about all the calibers. "Don't need 40S&W, 357 Sig, or 45GAP. Change the frame or up the power and get same results." Same thing with all the rifle calibers, WSM, WSSM, 17HSM, blah blah blah" you can get it done with 22LR, 22 Mag, 223, 243, 270, 308, 30-06 , 7mm Mag. With possibly the exception being some of the ultra long range "long range target/ sniper" calibers.
The previous is, without a doubt, my humble opinion!!
The magwell adapter is absolute genius! And integrated suppression . . . If Ruger doesn't, someone else is already working on it.

I will bet you $1 that the next caliber offered, if there is one, is the .40 S&W. If I'm wrong I will mail you a dollar bill.

 

[meketrefe]

Ah yes you have somewhat answered my question ( your technical knowledge still amazes me!) I get why that is all better, but my point is 1/2 x 28 seems to be the standard offering for 9mm cans. I didn't see why that was a mistake marketing wise. Seems most cans out there would be a good fit.

Hi,
these are pretty basic fundamentals when it comes to alloys, machining, pressure and heat.
If the hammer forging could make the threads that would be a different thing but they are cut after so there is no way to stress relief the alloy
no matter how the barrel blank is actually fabricated.
If one cuts them very slowly that would help but in the end there is so little material left with 1/2 threds that it doesn't matter. It is like the fluting too, one
needs to watch out for deep flutes and understand that the minor diameter should not go past a specific point so there is at least .2" wall thickness
and more ahead of the chamber so no cuts there.
Good barrels makers have a process to true the bores so last thing we want is to screw everything up with stupid machining.
I don't really know what made 1/2" threads to become the standard but one thing is for sure it was not based in good engineering / gunsmith decisions.
It is like so many other things. like the AR15 carbine porting that should have never existed neither but you know tacticool is more important
than good design and reliability. Same thing with the M4 style cuts on AR15 barrels. Really serve no purpose other than sometimes compromising
the minor diameter at the most critical area ahead of the chamber.
In case of the 9mm the ideal bore size would be 13-14" and not 16" (same for 22LR) as many commercial loads will actually loose speed due to
the lack of pressure at the muzzle. So one would be better off with a 13-14" bore and then an extension to meet the legal requirements if
needed. There you can have a 1/2" thread if you want since it doesn't impact the bore.
I guess manufacturers can make awesome things but at the same time follow trends and also develop what is cheaper and simpler to make.

Happy new year everyone!

 

[meketrefe]

Its definitely a simple blowback action, with the added mechanism of an internal floating buffer (tungsten) weight. Y'know so the while the bolt has enough mass to operate as a blowback action but not all that mass has to stop all at the same time which means the recoil of all that mass hitting the rear of the receiver all at once is reduced. Its a system that's been in use a long time but isn't all that common. Well suited for a PCC though.
I still am struck by how this gun neatly adresses every single issue I have with all other existing PCCs. Provided its reliable which is my issue with the Sub 2000 along with no bolt hold back. The Hi Point, while perfectly functional is cheaply made and inelegant, the CX4 is a tad too expensive, the MPX is way too expensive, the Scorpion is too expensive and again, no bolt hold open, the Just Right Carbines are too heavy and no bolt hold open, the various AR PCCs are either too expensive, or unreliable and some also with no bolt hold open plus I dont need or want everything to be an AR.
The Ruger is priced right, is made of quality materials and has a quality design, after researching does indeed last shot lock with Glock mags, and is presumably reliable. Throw in the takedown feature and what I hope will be strong aftermarket support and I see little reason to choose any other PCC over the Ruger. YMMV of course, I'm gonna get ine though. Can't wait for the Magpul stock!
Annnnnnnnnnd............... would hypothetically make for a good truck gun, minimal legal issues with it.

Is there a schematic of the bolt? They say it is very smooth and one cannot make it smooth w/o a reliable temporary lock that will reduce both bolt weight and spring pressure.

 

[FLA45fan]

I will bet you $1 that the next caliber offered, if there is one, is the .40 S&W. If I'm wrong I will mail you a dollar bill.

As much as I don't like the 40 ( and man, am I biased) I'll take you up on that! Of course I'm leaning towards the 45 (duh - FLA 45 fan). Hehehehe
Shit Pod, if I lose and ever come across ya I'll even buy ya a beer too!
Enjoy your roast!!!

 

[Wildman1024]

I'm going to get one of these as soon as I can. Shame I just bought a super nice Marlin camp 9. I guess they are just different enough where I will be happy with 2 lol.

I'm not a 40 fan, but in a rifle I think it would be worth it. Plus just think. Everytime there is an ammo shortage, whats always left on the shelf....40

 

[meketrefe]

I'm going to get one of these as soon as I can. Shame I just bought a super nice Marlin camp 9. I guess they are just different enough where I will be happy with 2 lol.

I'm not a 40 fan, but in a rifle I think it would be worth it. Plus just think. Everytime there is an ammo shortage, whats always left on the shelf....40

The problem with 40 and 45 calibers is that with a 16" bore many commercial loads are going to actually slow down before they leave the muzzle.
This happens with other pistol calibers but on the average carbine one has the option to shoot much flatter ans further with 9mm or even the 357 SIG
that would be perfect.
If they made a 40 or 45 they should make a 13 or 14 inch barrel and then have a extension to meet the legal lenght. Otherwise find loads that do not
loose speed so they can be more consistent, otherwise this can impact accuracy.
IMO larger bores are great for high grain, slower speeds while 35, 30 bores are great for speed. That is where carbines give a substantial gain, speed!

 

[Wildman1024]

The problem with 40 and 45 calibers is that with a 16" bore many commercial loads are going to actually slow down before they leave the muzzle.
This happens with other pistol calibers but on the average carbine one has the option to shoot much flatter ans further with 9mm or even the 357 SIG
that would be perfect.
If they made a 40 or 45 they should make a 13 or 14 inch barrel and then have a extension to meet the legal lenght. Otherwise find loads that do not
loose speed so they can be more consistent, otherwise this can impact accuracy.
IMO larger bores are great for high grain, slower speeds while 35, 30 bores are great for speed. That is where carbines give a substantial gain, speed!

They may "slow down" but they will still be faster and more accurate then coming from a pistol. If you hand load then you could even make them better.

In the end we are talking a PCC...not a "real rifle". If your looking for rifle rounds then this isn't for you. I don't think anyone who is interested in this sort of setup is super concerned with all the "red tape" and minute details. They just want to plink, have a rifle to share ammo, more accurate then the pistol and bigger than a 22 with no recoil.

 

[FLA45fan]

They may "slow down" but they will still be faster and more accurate then coming from a pistol. If you hand load then you could even make them better.

In the end we are talking a PCC...not a "real rifle". If your looking for rifle rounds then this isn't for you. I don't think anyone who is interested in this sort of setup is super concerned with all the "red tape" and minute details. They just want to plink, have a rifle to share ammo, more accurate then the pistol and bigger than a 22 with no recoil.

Dilly dilly!

 

[Podmonkey]

The problem with 40 and 45 calibers is that with a 16" bore many commercial loads are going to actually slow down before they leave the muzzle.
This happens with other pistol calibers but on the average carbine one has the option to shoot much flatter ans further with 9mm or even the 357 SIG
that would be perfect.
If they made a 40 or 45 they should make a 13 or 14 inch barrel and then have a extension to meet the legal lenght. Otherwise find loads that do not
loose speed so they can be more consistent, otherwise this can impact accuracy.
IMO larger bores are great for high grain, slower speeds while 35, 30 bores are great for speed. That is where carbines give a substantial gain, speed!

Do you have empirical evidence that .40 S&W will run out of steam in 16" of barrel? The .40 is actually a fairly hot round compared to the 9mm and .45. Do not most .40 loads equal or better most 9mm load's velocities?
Personally I think the .357 SIG would be the best PCC cartridge, and I think its an excellent round overall. Shame it isn't more popular.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Do you have empirical evidence that .40 S&W will run out of steam in 16" of barrel? The .40 is actually a fairly hot round compared to the 9mm and .45. Do not most .40 loads equal or better most 9mm load's velocities?
Personally I think the .357 SIG would be the best PCC cartridge, and I think its an excellent round overall. Shame it isn't more popular.

It won't necessarily run out of steam but it doesn't gain much especially with heavy 180 grainers. The same happens with heavy 9mm 147's. You'd have to go with really light for caliber .40's to gain any speed.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges

 

[ProgSpear]

This is getting easier by the minute. Get the first one in 9mm, shoot the hell out of it, and when other calibers become available, you give the 9mm to your wife and buy the one you want.

EDIT: Since .40 is "toned down" from the 10mm to make it more suitable for pistol use, wouldn't the 10mm be more suitable for a PCC? (I'm asking with the caveat that either would likely be better for a PCC than 9mm. I know that ideally, a PCC would be in the same caliber as your sidearm, but as a standalone... ?)

 

[meketrefe]

They may "slow down" but they will still be faster and more accurate then coming from a pistol. If you hand load then you could even make them better.

In the end we are talking a PCC...not a "real rifle". If your looking for rifle rounds then this isn't for you. I don't think anyone who is interested in this sort of setup is super concerned with all the "red tape" and minute details. They just want to plink, have a rifle to share ammo, more accurate then the pistol and bigger than a 22 with no recoil.

Of course they are faster! I am just saying that when they run out of pressure and slow down that translates in lost accuracy.
One can work loads with faster bullets but then those light for caliber bullets loose more in the air.
It would be ideal if we could have short 13-14" carbines in most of those tcalibers including 22LR. But we have the 16" BS.

 

[togmaster]

Thread hijack. When loading for PCC would a slower burning powder gain better results in accuracy?

 

[Podmonkey]

Of course they are faster! I am just saying that when they run out of pressure and slow down that translates in lost accuracy.
One can work loads with faster bullets but then those light for caliber bullets loose more in the air.
It would be ideal if we could have short 13-14" carbines in most of those tcalibers including 22LR. But we have the 16" BS.

Well I suppose an over diameter tube could be welded onto the end of a 12-14" barrel. @Bullet Guy had to JB weld a 2" long flashhider onto my 14.5" to make it legal so a plain tube wouldn't be terribly out of the ordinary.

 

[meketrefe]

It won't necessarily run out of steam but it doesn't gain much especially with heavy 180 grainers. The same happens with heavy 9mm 147's. You'd have to go with really light for caliber .40's to gain any speed.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Calibers/Cartridges


View attachment 23103

That is a great chart. Thanks for posting.

They say there they use a TC encore so my guess is in other actions the loss might
be greater with gas delayed actions possibly being the slowest. Still you see 16" loss speed and 18" is absurd.
like I said 13-14" would possibly work great for all loads. No more than 15" that is for sure.
possibly 16" is perfect for 22LR so that way we do not assure slow down with any type of load or firearm.

 

[meketrefe]

Well I suppose an over diameter tube could be welded onto the end of a 12-14" barrel. @Bullet Guy had to JB weld a 2" long flashhider onto my 14.5" to make it legal so a plain tube wouldn't be terribly out of the ordinary.

That is being done all the time. It is simple thread and pin a sleeve and done. Some makers used to do it with long brakes too but
the problem is if they are hard to clean or for servicing the gun like an AR. But yes I have done sleeves before too.

I don't think that is reason enough for turn down a 16" though. It is just an observation and perhaps something to take into account when selecting ammo.
It comes down the case volume to bore volume ratio and to make sure there is just enough
bore volume for efficient combustion.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Same delayed blowback system? does anyone how it is designed?

It'd delayed blowback.

 

[Target]

Same delayed blowback system? does anyone how it is designed?

Owner's manual shows internals:
https://ruger-docs.s3.amazonaws.com/_manuals/PC-Carbine.pdf

From a thread on Arfcom:

Just had a look @ the schematic in the back of the manual posted above. It's garden variety mass-delayed blowback (straight blowback) w/ a tungsten sliding weight just like a normal AR-9. Won't be as quiet as a DI, piston, HK, or the new CMMG radial-delayed blowback AR-9/45. But coming in below the price of an AR-9, these will sell like hotcakes. If it runs, Ruger hit a home run here.


Can't link the manual, can get there from a link on page 3 from this thread:
Ruger is ruining my 2018 resolution of no more new guns - 9mm Ruger Takedown that takes glock mags - Page 3 - AR15.COM

Edit..linked to owner's manual from Ruger's site.

 

[Podmonkey]

Frankly a garden variety straight blowback action is all thats need in a 9mm carbine. The tungsten weight is nice, shoukd smooth out the recoil a little, but anything more than that just drives up the cost unnecessarily. Look at the MPX, sure a gas operated, locking action is very nice, but unneeded for the mild pressures of pistol calibers, particularly the 9mm.

 

[nortatoga]

The charging handle and mag release being able to mount I either side could be interesting! For a tactical purpose having them on the left side for a right handed shooter and visa versa lefty could make mag changes faster? Just like with a handgun.

I am trying to be patient and wait for these to come out just in case there are any recalls, but it is going to be hard!!

 

[RugerGP]

I need one of these........I've been waiting.........

 

[meketrefe]

Frankly a garden variety straight blowback action is all thats need in a 9mm carbine. The tungsten weight is nice, shoukd smooth out the recoil a little, but anything more than that just drives up the cost unnecessarily. Look at the MPX, sure a gas operated, locking action is very nice, but unneeded for the mild pressures of pistol calibers, particularly the 9mm.

Podmonkey,
There is nothing mild about the 9mm specially for an autoloader rated for +P and +P+ ammunition.
Same thing to use other popular calibers like 40 caliber, 357sig, 10mm etc...

After all the most popular and reliable firearms on the planet have a delayed blow back like MP5 or Glock for example.

That is what makes those firearms so reliable with any sort of ammo and conditions.