Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And it doesn't do what a shroud does as well or even look like one.
That's plain English.
Tell Me Why This Isn't Legal
- Thread starter Marine Cpl
- Start date
That's plain English.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I see it as a FUAC first but also a way to extend your range accurately. You could easily hit 50 and 100 assuming this thing is stable, your red dot is zeroed, and you know your holdovers.
It would make as a great piece to keep in your car. It isn't a firearm so you could leave it there. In the event you need to extend your range, you have a quasi type, makeshift rifle from your carry piece.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Tell me why this isn't legal assuming you take off the forward grip, remove the stock and add a stabalizing brace.
Before commenting, read the law.
(c) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least one of the following characteristics: (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii) a thumbhole stock; (iii) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand; (iv) capacity to accept an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip; (v) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer; (vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned; (vii) a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded;
Hera Arms Triarii for Glock 17 GEN 4 Black
Detachable mag + pistol grip if you're trying to make a rifle out of it ?
"Barrel shroud" if it's still a pistol ?
garyv350
.357 mag
Not really. That's your English. Looks are open to interpretation. And it certainty does do what a shroud does....do you own a 17? Can you as manufactured hold the slide in front of the trigger and shoot it? Obviously not. It moves and exposes the barell. Could you with this on it? Yes. That's plain English and satisfies section (vi) of the law. You just don't like it.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Ahh, but you couldn't hold it by the slide because it reciprocated, now you can.
Your logic would mean I could turn a shroud into a non-shroud by just putting a piece of heat shrink or something between it and the barrel.
Uzi
.308 Win
Of all people me.. whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean?
So, you would agree with yourself that a hand rail is not used as a secondary grip handhold on a rifle or any SBR or these kits, and that they're also not designed as secondary grips in mind unless it has the addition of another vertical or forward grip attached to it? or not one at all because it can mount a flashlight, sling mount, laser etc to it?
Here's a bright idea for you Will, you should try to shoot only using one arm with your rifle from now on if it doesn't have an angled or vertical forward grip on it one day, because it's not made to be held as a secondary grip and you don't believe it is a secondary grip. Great idea, don't you think?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
You have a point on that. The heat shrink thing. I'll concede that. Now let's read the law shall we?
(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel
Ok. It does that.
AND that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned.
It doesn't do that. You couldn't burn your hand if you took it off and held your side.
Also, this is a chassis. It isn't a shroud. A flashlight is a flashlight and not a forward grip. Both can be used as one but that's not what they are. Under that logic, your slide is a shroud.
This is a shroud.
Glock 17 with IGB 10" barrel and matching shroud.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
It supposed to mean that I didn't expect this from you. At least when we debate fixed mags, you have logical answers.
Under your logic, this is a hand grip. So if that is the case, I have to remove it from my rifle and shoot one handed because it is a forward grip.
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spat
.700 Nitro Express
If followed logically SAFE outlawed *many* fudd guns, practically every semi auto could be construed to violate it in one way or another.
So either nearly all semis are illegal, or safe means something other than what it says.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
You can certainly hold it without being burned.You have a point on that. The heat shrink thing. I'll concede that. Now let's read the law shall we?
(vi) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles the barrel
Ok. It does that.
AND that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the non-trigger hand without being burned.
It doesn't do that. You couldn't burn your hand if you took it off and held your side.
Also, this is a chassis. It isn't a shroud. A flashlight is a flashlight and not a forward grip. Both can be used as one but that's not what they are. Under that logic, your slide is a shroud.
This is a shroud.
Glock 17 with IGB 10" barrel and matching shroud.
The fact that you can hold any gun by the barrel without being burned by simply reducing your rate of fire is irrelevent.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
So get rid of your slide. It's a shroud.
spat
.700 Nitro Express
Can't hold it by the slide, the gun wouldn't function if you did.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yes it would.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Because this is now a rifle.
11. “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
11. “Rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed metallic cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger.
Uzi
.308 Win
FFL's can sell lots of stuff, it's not illegal to sell that, but it doesn't prove that it's legal to configure your glock pistol with one in NYS. If they can even reasonably confirm the legality of that in NYS, sign me up and I'll pick up a glock right away and toss one on. Actually, I'd take two. One for my backpack, and one for the nightstand.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Incorrect. It's not meant to be fired by the shoulder with a Sig Brace. ATF has already ruled on that.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Correct. FFL's sell a lot of stuff that isn't legal. There is one on this site who does as well.
One has to read the law and decide for oneself rather than take an FFL's word. It's funny that you guys go tooth and nail fighting fixed magazines contrary to the actual wording of the law since it still has the ability to accept a detachable magazine yet here people are saying that it is a barrel shroud, a forward grip, ECT. Perhaps it's due to that. I don't know. I'd like to think that people aren't like that due to past disagreements.
The fact of the matter is that it isn't a barrel shroud and if one was to buy a barrel shroud for a Glock, the barrel would have to extend past the slide to attach the shroud to the naked portion of the barrel like so. This is an actual barrel shroud for a Glock barrel.
Up for sale is 16" threaded carbine impulse barrel for Glock 19 with shroud. Just add a stock and convert your Glock 19 to a legal carbine (SBR stamp not needed). Can be used with RONI Glock carbine kit or any Glock stocks. Got it brand new 2 months ago for $450, less than 100 rounds shot.
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Uzi
.308 Win
Correct. FFL's sell a lot of stuff that isn't legal. There is one on this site who does as well.
One has to read the law and decide for oneself rather than take an FFL's word. It's funny that you guys go tooth and nail fighting fixed magazines contrary to the actual wording of the law since it still has the ability to accept a detachable magazine yet here people are saying that it is a barrel shroud, a forward grip, ECT. Perhaps it's due to that. I don't know. I'd like to think that people aren't like that due to past disagreements.
The fact of the matter is that it isn't a barrel shroud and if one was to buy a barrel shroud for a Glock, the barrel would have to extend past the slide to attach the shroud to the naked portion of the barrel like so. This is an actual barrel shroud for a Glock barrel.
Up for sale is 16" threaded carbine impulse barrel for Glock 19 with shroud. Just add a stock and convert your Glock 19 to a legal carbine (SBR stamp not needed). Can be used with RONI Glock carbine kit or any Glock stocks. Got it brand new 2 months ago for $450, less than 100 rounds shot.
I don't agree with your thought process related to fixed mag rifles, but that's okay because an overwhelming amount of people don't either. If it's widely accepted and I feel comfortable with it myself, then it doesn't matter much what you agree or disagree with to me. I have no reason to lie or make up something I don't believe in. It's the simple choice and option to make yourself. In terms of the pistol having a "foregrip", I think it's questionable I'd say, not because of federal definitions of what a foreward grip is considered, but because of what the safe act says with the non shooting hand, that's about it really. I could see also that one of those flash hider looking things secured as one piece inside the chassis frame and ultimately covering over the barrel all could be construed as part of the muzzle device. The problem with it is you're heading into fairly new territory. You shouldn't easily dismiss it like it's a preposterous notion when it comes to NYS. As far as I know, nobody has discussed these much at all, especially the legality of them. when you ask for opinions, people will offer them, but you cannot pretend that you know they're incorrect for certainty, otherwise I'd wonder why you'd be asking in the first place because you should already know the legality of one. Things you can certainly rule out for an example would be to say that it doesn't use a magazine outside the pistol grip (some of them only carry spare mags up front). It doesn't have a threaded barrel, or a thumbhole stock. Those I'd rule out, but due to the lack of being so unconventional, it's tough to confirm much more than that IMO.
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Your OP ? was not about a Sig-Brace was it?
NY Chamorro
.357 mag
I would have to say that, at that split second the slide is in the rear position, the barrel is exposed. Which means that, at that moment it is acting as a shroud, and you can not burn your hand....JM 2cents
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Read the first post on its entirety.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Acting as a shroud doesn't make it a shroud. If you grip your flashlight, does that make it a forward grip?
nortatoga
.338 Win Mag
Ok I stand corrected!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's what it all boils down to until there is an arrest, no plea bargain, and a full trial resulting in case law which rarely happens with all 3. So you are correct in saying acceptance and comfort is about all you do in regards to legalities. Just be mindful that acceptance doesn't necessarily mean legality. Look at open carry in the Penal Law for example.
So let me ask you this since you seem focused on the non shooting hand and calling this a grip. If you use a proper 2 handed grip on your regular pistol (let's call it a Glock for arguments sake) with both thumbs forward and your thumb is resting on the cutout for it, is the front of the frame now considered a grip?
Is a handguard on a rifle now considering a forward grip since it's meant for your hand to go there?
Here is the law in regards to assault rifles and the 2nd grip feature.
(iv) a second handgrip or a protruding grip that can be held by the non-trigger hand;
A hand guard or rest is not the same as a hand grip or else all long guns would be illegal.
NY Chamorro
.357 mag
Shroud= a thing that envelopes or obscures something. That being said, It is a shroud. The manufactures may call it a chassis, but, by definition its a shroud.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
That's not what the law says and that's not what the manufacturer of this product says. We can only go by the law as written.
Well since it is for a Glock I don't have to worry about buying one to see if it is legal or not. @Willjr75 you should go for it and let us know if we need to send bail money.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I might but I don't have a Glock 17 and don't plan on buying one.
garyv350
.357 mag
Obviously, when you ask a question for opinions, then proceed to attempt to contradict everything everyone else has said, you clearly don't give a shit about opinions in regards to the question you asked. All you are doing and continue to do is create and atmosphere where you try and argue why you are right and all others are wrong.
Nobody gives a rats ass what you think is legal or not. Your continued rhetoric just reinforces the fact that you are clearly just around to incite arguments.
More than one person has replied in the same fashion to your origional question, yet you continue to repeat your same counter as if you are the one making the laws the law.
You don't have a good argument for anything and just talk in circles.
You have no balls to call out Bulletguy by his name but yet to support your own personal crusade you can say in this thread the ATF ruling says a sig brace is good but in another threads aboit a product he is selling, you say ATF rulings don't apply in NY. You can't have it both ways based on your personal opinion o meet your agenda.
And that's what this is. Your personal opinion. Do what you want. No one here cares. As does no one care about what you think is legal either. You think because you can read English your version of what you comprehend is always correct. Well it's obvious that several others here in this thread disagree with you as do I'm sure many, many others that don't chime in.
No take this for what it's worth. That's my opinion. And as far as yours goes.....that's fine too. But don't post things stating how you are right and others are wrong when it's your interpretation of things versus someone elses.
Nobody gives a rats ass what you think is legal or not. Your continued rhetoric just reinforces the fact that you are clearly just around to incite arguments.
More than one person has replied in the same fashion to your origional question, yet you continue to repeat your same counter as if you are the one making the laws the law.
You don't have a good argument for anything and just talk in circles.
You have no balls to call out Bulletguy by his name but yet to support your own personal crusade you can say in this thread the ATF ruling says a sig brace is good but in another threads aboit a product he is selling, you say ATF rulings don't apply in NY. You can't have it both ways based on your personal opinion o meet your agenda.
And that's what this is. Your personal opinion. Do what you want. No one here cares. As does no one care about what you think is legal either. You think because you can read English your version of what you comprehend is always correct. Well it's obvious that several others here in this thread disagree with you as do I'm sure many, many others that don't chime in.
No take this for what it's worth. That's my opinion. And as far as yours goes.....that's fine too. But don't post things stating how you are right and others are wrong when it's your interpretation of things versus someone elses.