Temporary Restaining Order Issued For Concealed Carry Improvement Act (merged thread)

[Truebeliever]

I believe this is the hearing for the appeal of the preliminary injunction. The stay was issued as an emergency stay. Then the hearing was expedited to 3-20. All of these cases are being combined and ruled on either to maintain the emergency stay (in which the second circuit would have to draft a thorough decision explaining why) or vacate the stay and allow the district courts decisions to stand. Then we move on to the real case(s) which I assume will all be in our favor. When those cases are decided there will be yet another appeal by NYS. What I am not clear on is, is whether NYS can appeal to the second circuit en banc if we win on 3-20 or if we can appeal en banc. Or we go directly to SCOTUS

If it’s just a 3 judge panel, either side can ask for the En Banc. Or appeal to SCOTUS. An En banc or a SCOTUS decision to review the case can be flatly denied unlike an initial appeal . I am basing what I am saying as to what happened in CA and the 9th circuit

 

[JRtraderny]

I disagree with you on the history thing. I don’t think most Americans will support what we’re going for with the Bruen decision. Should that matter legally? No. I’m sure most or all Americans do not support paying taxes but you’ll still get convicted for not paying your taxes. I don’t think too many Americans will support expanding full autos, silencers, and eliminating mag limits, but I could be wrong. I think this can be attributed to Hollywood bullshit and liberal lies but those things influence people.

As far as I'm concerned the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968 are all infringements on the 2nd amendment. If I could afford it I should be able to mail order a tank or a full auto M16 and have it delivered to my door.

 

[Otis49]

Hi all!

I am not nearly as educated on our judicial processes as many of you and I’m quite confused about where we currently stand (on Long Island) with CC in private businesses.

I completed my CCW 18 hour course (with a sportsman license) on 1/14/23 in Nassau County (I live in Suffolk County). We were told during the course that once we received our new CCW license we were allowed to CC in private businesses as that part of the CCIA was overturned. It seems through my research that at this time that may not be true. Can anyone educate me on where we stand now as it pertains to CC in private businesses in Suffolk County in businesses not displaying CC permitted?

Thank you in advanced!

 

[Saltwater60]

As far as I'm concerned the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968 are all infringements on the 2nd amendment. If I could afford it I should be able to mail order a tank or a full auto M16 and have it delivered to my door.

I agree 200%. I’m just saying I don’t agree that the history books will see it that way. I also don’t think most Americans will agree with it either, but not based on facts based on BS and Hollywood like I said earlier. My dream gun is a full auto Tommy gun.
Don’t mistake my disagreement with the earlier post for my agreement with the laws.
I think most of not all gun laws are Bs and I should be able to buy whatever I want up to high explosives with just a background check. A stick or two of dynamite to take care of some trees sure no problem.

 

[Saltwater60]

Hi all!

I am not nearly as educated on our judicial processes as many of you and I’m quite confused about where we currently stand (on Long Island) with CC in private businesses.

I completed my CCW 18 hour course (with a sportsman license) on 1/14/23 in Nassau County (I live in Suffolk County). We were told during the course that once we received our new CCW license we were allowed to CC in private businesses as that part of the CCIA was overturned. It seems through my research that at this time that may not be true. Can anyone educate me on where we stand now as it pertains to CC in private businesses in Suffolk County in businesses not displaying CC permitted?

Thank you in advanced!

You can carry in private businesses only if they have a sign saying you’re allowed to, I think churches, and most streets and sidewalks unless there’s a protest or event on the street or sidewalk. That’s about it. Whoever you took your class with was wrong and you should request a refund because even on 1/14/23 you weren’t allowed to either.
The full CCIA is in effect. The church carry might be the only exception.

 

[Acer-m14]

Whoever you took your class with was wrong and you should request a refund because even on 1/14/23 you weren’t allowed to either.
The full CCIA is in effect. The church carry might be the only exception.

i will 2nd that ..

 

[JRtraderny]

I agree 200%. I’m just saying I don’t agree that the history books will see it that way. I also don’t think most Americans will agree with it either, but not based on facts based on BS and Hollywood like I said earlier. My dream gun is a full auto Tommy gun.
Don’t mistake my disagreement with the earlier post for my agreement with the laws.
I think most of not all gun laws are Bs and I should be able to buy whatever I want up to high explosives with just a background check. A stick or two of dynamite to take care of some trees sure no problem.

I can remember my dad telling me when he was a kid in the 30's that you could walk into the local hardware store and buy dynamite no questions asked.

 

[Clancy]

As far as I'm concerned the NFA of 1934 and the GCA of 1968 are all infringements on the 2nd amendment. If I could afford it I should be able to mail order a tank or a full auto M16 and have it delivered to my door.

For what it's worth, I used to do Civil War reenacting with a guy who also got involved in WW2 reenacting. He bought 2 Sherman tanks from the Bosnian government, had them shipped back to the US and then moved from New Jersey to Pennsylvania and had them mounted with .30 and .50 caliber machine guns as well as working 75mm cannon. Let's just say he is rather well off, financially.

 

[Tisto]

I can remember my dad telling me when he was a kid in the 30's that you could walk into the local hardware store and buy dynamite no questions asked.

It's not that difficult to get a blaster's permit for PRIVATE use. A COMMERCIAL permit is much more difficult, but allows you to buy more types of explosives.

A blaster's permit held by a farmer or landowner will allow you to purchase various grades of TNT along with the det caps necessary to make it go bang. There may be a few other explosives available on that permit too, but you won't be able to buy C4 or other high explosives with it. You can buy TNT for removing stumps and rocks, that sort of thing , ON YOUR LAND, but it is not legal to hire your services out COMMERCIALLY.

NOBODY uses DYNAMITE anymore. They haven't for decades. TNT has replaced it. Most people say dynamite when they really mean TNT.

 

[Bozo]

You can carry in private businesses only if they have a sign saying you’re allowed to, I think churches, and most streets and sidewalks unless there’s a protest or event on the street or sidewalk. That’s about it. Whoever you took your class with was wrong and you should request a refund because even on 1/14/23 you weren’t allowed to either.
The full CCIA is in effect. The church carry might be the only exception.

Exactly. WTF? 16 hours of expensive classroom time, and they can't even stay up to date on the legalities?

That said - concealed is concealed. Everyone needs to decide for themselves whether carrying in violation of current law is a risk worth taking vs. needing a gun and not having one.

 

[Saltwater60]

I can remember my dad telling me when he was a kid in the 30's that you could walk into the local hardware store and buy dynamite no questions asked.

Right and I still should be able to.

 

[Acer-m14]

NOBODY uses DYNAMITE anymore. They haven't for decades. TNT has replaced it. Most people say dynamite when they really mean TNT.

AC/DC ... Cause I'm TNT ... I'm Dynamite .. LOL ..

 

[Tisto]

AC/DC ... Cause I'm TNT ... I'm Dynamite .. LOL ..

Ok, but they're not the same thing !!!

 

[Vapor]

There is no hope. Move. Scorched earth. Take everything you have of value and pull all your freedom principaled family and friends with you.

 

[Otis49]

You can carry in private businesses only if they have a sign saying you’re allowed to, I think churches, and most streets and sidewalks unless there’s a protest or event on the street or sidewalk. That’s about it. Whoever you took your class with was wrong and you should request a refund because even on 1/14/23 you weren’t allowed to either.
The full CCIA is in effect. The church carry might be the only exception.

Thank you for clarifying. I’m glad I took the time to check deeper into this before potentially catching a felony.

 

[Truebeliever]

Hi all!

I am not nearly as educated on our judicial processes as many of you and I’m quite confused about where we currently stand (on Long Island) with CC in private businesses.

I completed my CCW 18 hour course (with a sportsman license) on 1/14/23 in Nassau County (I live in Suffolk County). We were told during the course that once we received our new CCW license we were allowed to CC in private businesses as that part of the CCIA was overturned. It seems through my research that at this time that may not be true. Can anyone educate me on where we stand now as it pertains to CC in private businesses in Suffolk County in businesses not displaying CC permitted?

Thank you in advanced!

They were correct that the judge overturned it but the state appealed . The law is back in effect until the appeal court rules.

 

[maverick52]

If it’s just a 3 judge panel, either side can ask for the En Banc. Or appeal to SCOTUS. An En banc or a SCOTUS decision to review the case can be flatly denied unlike an initial appeal . I am basing what I am saying as to what happened in CA and the 9th circuit

NYS would definitely appeal en banc. But if they lose, it would be bad for them. If we lose, I believe that Thomas and Alito left the door open for another appeal.

 

[Cooolone]

Well said. I like your argument but the judge won't. So it's really a matter of the risk you wish to take. That will vary for each person. In the end I believe we will be on the right side of history and the cops who enforce this and the officials who passed this will be on the wrong side of history. How much will be have to endure and how long will that take? Nobody knows.

What risk? Risk is nit assumed when exercising a RIGHT! The SCOTUS has made it clear on numerous rulings, to Enjoy your Right(s), you must exercise them... It is not a given, nor is IT given! Having a firearm sitting at home locked and unusable in a safe, is NOT exercising that Right, but behaving in a manner prescribed by those who would wish to remove your Rights. Again, the one Right in the BOR which had explicit instruction, SHALL NOT BE INFRNGED, anything else is just bullshit!

Back to Risk... I don't see Risk, because I don't expect to get in a jam. Most if not all the cases you will encounter or read about will be mostly from law breakers having some serious issues with the law AND the firearm being thrown in. Break only one at a time, here, a 2A law violation, strictly on it's own merits and typically it will never get to a courtroom. Why? Because the State will never allow precedent to be established! So live a clean life, stay away from afterhours joints and do what you want, live as you will, and stop worrying about the Big Bad Wolf that never comes!

Besides, I'm too old to have any fucks left...

Zulu Foxtrot!

 

[CaliberPlus]

Right and I still should be able to.

Apparently I need a freaking permit to sell Tannerite! Dads and sons used to buy a lot of the little canisters becuse it was FUN! I had the guy from the state tell me it wasn't that hard to get and it only costs $50.00. Needless to say, I don't sell it because we did not make $50.00 from a year's sale. I think I was also supposed to log buyer's,not sure on that. I log enough, not doing it.

 

[GlockModel29]

Apparently I need a freaking permit to sell Tannerite! Dads and sons used to buy a lot of the little canisters becuse it was FUN! I had the guy from the state tell me it wasn't that hard to get and it only costs $50.00. Needless to say, I don't sell it because we did not make $50.00 from a year's sale. I think I was also supposed to log buyer's,not sure on that. I log enough, not doing it.

I don't know how you guys can compete with Gunbroker...ive purchased my last 3 or 4 handguns on Gunbroker....local shops couldn't come close to the price...maybe they're making it up on the transfers....who knows....

 

[Sunshine Patriot]

You can carry in private businesses only if they have a sign saying you’re allowed to, I think churches, and most streets and sidewalks unless there’s a protest or event on the street or sidewalk. That’s about it. Whoever you took your class with was wrong and you should request a refund because even on 1/14/23 you weren’t allowed to either.
The full CCIA is in effect. The church carry might be the only exception.

I began a list of businesses by county posted in another thread, where we are allowed to carry based on Hochul's Law. The way I read it, and the way I approach businesses that do not have a sign, is I ask them if it is okay to carry in their business. The law reads:

§ 265.01-d Criminal possession of a weapon in a restricted location. 27 1. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in a 28 restricted location when such person possesses a firearm, rifle, or 29 shotgun and enters into or remains on or in private property where such 30 person knows or reasonably should know that the owner or lessee of such 31 property has not permitted such possession by clear and conspicuous 32 signage indicating that the carrying of firearms, rifles, or shotguns on 33 their property is permitted or has otherwise given express consent.

Am I wrong?

 

[spat]

Go look it up. Look at the covid restrictions and how long that took

COVID and Religion at SCOTUS

www.rpc.senate.gov

it’s how the court works.

And you find that acceptable ?

 

[RBean]

Having retired and decamped to Florida except for one case still pending in NY, I find Florida's proposed gun legislation totally different. Right now the big issue is Florida is whether constitutional carry bill pending in the legislature will be concealed carry or both concealed carry and open. When I first moved there it took 30 minutes and a credit card payment, about $25 I think. Less than two weeks later I had the permit. Oh, guess what. The crime rate in Florida is no worst than NY. Better if one leaves out Orlando.

 

[Truebeliever]

NYS would definitely appeal en banc. But if they lose, it would be bad for them. If we lose, I believe that Thomas and Alito left the door open for another appeal.

I think it’s more than left the door open -lol

 

[RBean]

Yes, I know it is in theory better to stay and fight. I have fought some in court, but I'm old and want to spend the rest of the time I have left to live in relative freedom. You just get worn out with this crap. And it just keeps getting worse. But you folks keep up the good fight.

 

[Truebeliever]

And you find that acceptable ?

Explaining the realities isn’t the same as agreeing with it.

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Yes, I know it is in theory better to stay and fight. I have fought some in court, but I'm old and want to spend the rest of the time I have left to live in relative freedom. You just get worn out with this crap. And it just keeps getting worse. But you folks keep up the good fight.

Many of us here, myself included, are very happy that you are here. Your posts, even if they would only be your two cents, are insightful. @RBean please stick around, we love you!

 

[Saltwater60]

I began a list of businesses by county posted in another thread, where we are allowed to carry based on Hochul's Law. The way I read it, and the way I approach businesses that do not have a sign, is I ask them if it is okay to carry in their business. The law reads:

§ 265.01-d Criminal possession of a weapon in a restricted location. 27 1. A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in a 28 restricted location when such person possesses a firearm, rifle, or 29 shotgun and enters into or remains on or in private property where such 30 person knows or reasonably should know that the owner or lessee of such 31 property has not permitted such possession by clear and conspicuous 32 signage indicating that the carrying of firearms, rifles, or shotguns on 33 their property is permitted or has otherwise given express consent.

Am I wrong?

You’re not wrong but I’m not so sure that will hold up in the long run. Say you come up to me and ask me to carry on my property and I say no and call the police. If you’re carrying just by stepping foot on their property you’re a felon.
On the flip side I say yes and you shoot some one, I have no cameras in the store and the cops ask me if so and so asked me to carry on my property? At that point I don’t want to be involved and don’t want any liability so o say no he never asked me. What then?

 

[Saltwater60]

Yes, I know it is in theory better to stay and fight. I have fought some in court, but I'm old and want to spend the rest of the time I have left to live in relative freedom. You just get worn out with this crap. And it just keeps getting worse. But you folks keep up the good fight.

It’s not better to stay and fight. There’s no fighting tyrants.

 

[Lurch]

Come on guys. We live in NY. It's never gonna get better. They will always come up with some BS laws that will take years to sort out. Even when they do lose they will come up with more BS. BRUEN was the worst thing to happen