Things are heating up in the Donbass

[holdover]

And I certainly wouldn't describe the situation in Ukraine as a "major military commitment" by the US.

Somehow that doesn't surprise me . We've depleted our own stock piles and still cant supply Ukraine with enough arms W'eve spent hundred of billions of dollars with no end in sight . How deep do you think this well goes? We cant produce enough arms for Ukraine now, We just dont have the manufacturing capacity.

Its more than a money issue , its a manufacturing/ logistical capacity. For instance, the US has increased its manufacturing capacity of 155 rounds to 30k per month, the minimum amount required per day in Ukraine is 6000. So the US can supply one weeks worth of 155 rounds per month. thats a major deficit that cant be overcome quickly . Now, We are supplying Israel and Ukraine the best we can , If NK decides to attack the south, We dont have much to send them , Sure we can write a check, but theres nothing left on the shelves to buy. That goes for other weapon systems too. if the production is x and the requirement is xxx, theres a problem .

the second issue is that since Russia and NK have signed a miliary pact. it is in Russias best interest to supply NK with the latest and best antiship /anti aircraft, anti tank , and cruise missiles.

Were being spread thin, it is an issue.

 

[Mosinitis]

Russia is going to issue work visas to North Koreans to work in the Russian factories. There is labor shortage in Russia. It stands to reason some of them will volunteer (to use the word loosely) to fight in Ukraine. NK will get people with real modern warfare experience when they come back. Mutual benefit for both countries.

 

[1341]

Let's be honest, what are the mutual benefits for both sides. The russians will get a bunch of clowns to be minesweepers and the nk's will have alot less mouths to feed, because they aren't coming back.

 

[holdover]

Let's be honest, what are the mutual benefits for both sides. The russians will get a bunch of clowns to be minesweepers and the nk's will have alot less mouths to feed, because they aren't coming back.

Seriously? That statement qualify s you to work on the Whitehouse staff. NK is just a small part of a bigger picture that some cant seem to notice.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Seriously? That statement qualify s you to work on the Whitehouse staff. NK is just a small part of a bigger picture that some cant seem to notice.

Expect NK to act up at the same time china moves on Taiwan and Iran on Israel.

Expect a few thousand NK "advisors" to get a masters level curriculum on modern peer to peer engagement that they will bring back with them to share and update NK doctrine for attacking the south.

Ukraine is a great comparison to the Spanish civil war pre WW2. It was used as a live battle lab to study and learn from.

The US cannot possibly manage all these separate theaters effectively with our current military, manufacturing and logistics.

 

[Mosinitis]

Let's be honest, what are the mutual benefits for both sides. The russians will get a bunch of clowns to be minesweepers and the nk's will have alot less mouths to feed, because they aren't coming back.

You need to be reminded how a bunch of clowns in pajamas with junk boat navy won the war 50 years ago.

 

[holdover]

Expect NK to act up at the same time china moves on Taiwan and Iran on Israel.

Expect a few thousand NK "advisors" to get a masters level curriculum on modern peer to peer engagement that they will bring back with them to share and update NK doctrine for attacking the south.

Ukraine is a great comparison to the Spanish civil war pre WW2. It was used as a live battle lab to study and learn from.

The US cannot possibly manage all these separate theaters effectively with our current military, manufacturing and logistics.

Napoleon once said, ""lost Territory I can regain, lost Time ,I cannot"" If the enemy can destroy your weapon systems faster than you can replace them , somewhere down the road your going to have a a major problem . A problem even money can't solve.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Napoleon once said, ""lost Territory I can regain, lost Time ,I cannot"" If the enemy can destroy your weapon systems faster than you can replace them , somewhere down the road your going to have a a major problem . A problem even money can't solve.

A tiger or panther is superior to a t34 or a Sherman. But a tiger or a panther lose to 5 t34s or 5 Sherman's.

At some point it becomes a war of attrition and manufacturing and logistics.

I think there was a quote in not sure what general or admiral said it but it's something like "only a fool fights a fort from a ship". The ship will run out of supplies first.

The same thing is happening with the west, we are depleting our reserves and stock piles rapidly. We are not manufacturing "new" munitions anywhere near the rates needed for high intensity conflicts and no where near the rates of production for Russia.

Sure western stuff is better but tell that to the Ukrainian who can only fire 10 shells a day because he has no resupply when he's taking 100 incoming.

 

[1341]

Seriously? That statement qualify s you to work on the Whitehouse staff. NK is just a small part of a bigger picture that some cant seem to notice.

Seriously, your response shows that you have proven yourself to be nothing but a putin apologist. What you haven't noticed is that NK has been a small part of a bigger picture since 1950.

 

[1341]

You need to be reminded how a bunch of clowns in pajamas with junk boat navy won the war 50 years ago.

Did they? I believe the goal of that invasion was to unite Korea into 1 country under communist leadership. So if you look at things in 2024 did that happen?

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

We could have had 10 new aircraft carriers for the amount of aid we’ve given Ukraine.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

We could have had 10 new aircraft carriers for the amount of aid we’ve given Ukraine.

Or fixed our ghetto cities, reshored manufacturing and repaired failing infrastructure.

 

[Mosinitis]

Did they? I believe the goal of that invasion was to unite Korea into 1 country under communist leadership. So if you look at things in 2024 did that happen?

Not a good day for arithmetic on NY Gun Forum. 2024 minus 50 is Vietnam.

 

[1341]

Kinda figured your arithmetic was wrong because the post was about NK or did you miss that.

 

[holdover]

Seriously, your response shows that you have proven yourself to be nothing but a putin apologist. What you haven't noticed is that NK has been a small part of a bigger picture since 1950.

Why would you call me an apologist? Makes no sense. Oh I noticed, but there are people on here who cant see that.The ones who think they are clowns

 

[holdover]

Sure western stuff is better but tell that to the Ukrainian who can only fire 10 shells a day because he has no resupply when he's taking 100 incoming.

This is exactly what is happening in Ukraine

 

[holdover]

Kinda figured your arithmetic was wrong because the post was about NK or did you miss that.

The Pajamas really gave it away.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

Or fixed our ghetto cities, reshored manufacturing and repaired failing infrastructure.

Yea, Kind of like Vietnam....

 

[Mosinitis]

I spit my drink out at this one.



Your my favorite brainwashed ex-soviet citizen to read.

I know two sides of the story, you know only one. However the fact is there are American forces still deployed in S. Korea and their government is obedient to Washington. There are no foreign troops in N.K.

 

[Acer-m14]

A tiger or panther is superior to a t34 or a Sherman. But a tiger or a panther lose to 5 t34s or 5 Sherman's.

they all lose to a basement

 

[spat]

This is exactly what is happening in Ukraine

Only a moron is paying for rounds fired. What's important is targets destroyed.

So, if I can only fire 10 rounds, but I destroy 5 targets with that, and my enemy fires 100 rounds, 99 of them land in an empty cornfield, I'll take that every day.

Plus, my 10 rounds can be delivered by a single truck with one driver.

My enemies 100 rounds need a whole convoy. That whole convoy needs to be supplied too.

The economy of that is huge.

The US hasn't moved to a wartime economy yet.

It's true, we're maxing out our "in our spare time" production. If things escalate as you suggest, we might need to get serious.

When the US gets serious, very impressive things happen. Should I remind you of the time we were building whole aircraft carriers at a rate of a couple dozen a year ? We were pumping out multiple other capital ships a day ?

We went from essentially nothing to over a billion artillery shells in just a couple years.

 

[Mosinitis]

Human sacrifice by the Pentagon death cult continues. A man is screaming for help being kidnapped in front of the crying wife and child.

 

[holdover]

So, if I can only fire 10 rounds, but I destroy 5 targets with that, and my enemy fires 100 rounds, 99 of them land in an empty cornfield, I'll take that every day.

ANd the other targets you couldnt hit destroys your position and I move forward again. . What is happening is that trained people . weapons and ammo are being destroyed at a faster pace then can be than can replaced. The russian weapons themselves ane'nt bad . the Russian doctrine and officers leave a lot to be desired .

The monkey wrench in the gears for both sides was the effectiveness of cheap drone warfare and how to counter it.

Only a moron is paying for rounds fired.

Ok your going to have to clarify that for this moron. Nobody is paying for rounds?

 

[spat]

ANd the other targets you couldnt hit destroys your position and I move forward again. . What is happening is that trained people . weapons and ammo are being destroyed at a faster pace then can be than can replaced. The russian weapons themselves ane'nt bad . the Russian doctrine and officers leave a lot to be desired .

The monkey wrench in the gears for both sides was the effectiveness of cheap drone warfare and how to counter it.


Ok your going to have to clarify that for this moron. Nobody is paying for rounds?

You don't want to spend money to fire rounds.

You want to spend money to destroy targets.

100 rounds fired is useless if it doesn't have an effect.

It's a common management problem everywhere. They mistake what's easily measured for what's important.

Imagine you have 2 sales guys. One makes 100 calls a day and only makes one sale. The other guy only makes 10 calls, but he gets 6 sales out of it.

Obviously the second employee is the better salesman, and is far better for your company.

But, all over the place shitty management will track number of calls (and maybe even pay per call) rather than a more difficult to measure metric.

I.e. they get a spreadsheet in their email every morning with calls completed, so that's what they care about. Finding out the sales figures per employee is harder, so they ignore it.

Pretty soon, the really smart employees are just making calls and getting the customers to say "no" as fast as they can to get on to the next call and improve their metric.

Next month, management pats themselves on the back for doubling their call volume, and the next level of management is wondering why their sales have dropped.


That comes from not understanding what you are paying for. You are paying for sales not calls. If you *think* you're paying for calls, you're going to precipitate a disaster.

So, "rounds fired" is a terrible metric to judge by. While not every round is even intended to hit, you want to judge by how effective they are, not how numerous.


Imagine if the marine Corp rifle qualifications were "how fast can you dump a magazine". You'd get some really shitty marines out of it.

 

[holdover]

You don't want to spend money to fire rounds.

You want to spend money to destroy targets.

Your still looking at the problem wrong.

Say you have a a team of 50 of the best well trained marksmen delta force veterans . And the Russians attack their position from three sides with a division . You know what happens to those those troops? they all die . The russians take that Position and do it again. the Russians are victorious because they have achieved the objective set out for them by their command. Maybe your guys kill 20 to 1 , doesnt matter because they lost the objective . Now the next problem is where are you going to get another 50 delta force vets? Theres only so many.( I think 2k actually) They take years to produce You cant replace your losses while the Russians can .

Obviously your delta force guys are extremely efficient. but numbers matter too, and the quality of your defense has just declined by 50 top notch experts that you cant replace. You have better troops and training but your losing the war. You can only trade lives for territory until you run out of territory. Your efficiency doesn't = victory. You look at the numbers and come away saying we are far better than the Russians, but the Russians are taking and holding ground . Your going to run out of ground!

Imagine you have 2 sales guys. One makes 100 calls a day and only makes one sale. The other guy only makes 10 calls, but he gets 6 sales out of it.

Obviously the second employee is the better salesman, and is far better for your company.

Correct! so the Russians hire 10 more salesman at one sale a day, who's winning? Obviously you have the better salesman, but my company is making more sales . Now your salesman is KIA or gets a better job which ever comes first. how are you going to replace him? the guys an expert, years of experience , You cant just take a guy off the street and expect similar performance

Your viewing the metric wrong. succcess on the battlefield isnt measured in lives or armor, its measured in ground taken and held.

Stalin's truism is correct. ""Quantity has a quality of its own ""

What happened to the vaunted German army in Russia? the Germans were not able to produce thier high end weapons and troops faster than the Russians could destroy them. The historic parallel is the same .


For some reason it doesn't click with you. the situation is that for the cost of a 5k drone (or much less) you can knock out a 5 million dollar tank . the drone can be produced at 10,000 a month, antitank missles at 1-2K per month vs 400 tanks a month , the math should be obvious .
Armors effectiveness on the battle field is limited until one side can produce an effective countermeasure

the secondary weapon is the infantry (rah) of which Russians have massive resources for and Ukraine does not

 

[tirwin1]

Russia signing an agreement with North Korea is a sure sign of weakness not strength. I can't believe what I'm reading. They might have numbers but they have no real experience whatsoever. Does anyone really think of north Korea as a goddamn military powerhouse? Seriously? Korean conscripts in Ukraine would be a sign of desperation by the Russians.

 

[Mosinitis]

North Korea has the fourth largest military in the world, which can be upgraded by the Russian missile technology. Curious to see how the transfer of long range missiles to Ukraine is coming along after this N.K./Russia treaty.

Not a lot of talk about new transfer of long range missiles to Ukraine anymore.

 

[zorro]

Only a moron is paying for rounds fired. What's important is targets destroyed.

So, if I can only fire 10 rounds, but I destroy 5 targets with that, and my enemy fires 100 rounds, 99 of them land in an empty cornfield, I'll take that every day.

Plus, my 10 rounds can be delivered by a single truck with one driver.

My enemies 100 rounds need a whole convoy. That whole convoy needs to be supplied too.

The economy of that is huge.

The US hasn't moved to a wartime economy yet.

It's true, we're maxing out our "in our spare time" production. If things escalate as you suggest, we might need to get serious.

When the US gets serious, very impressive things happen. Should I remind you of the time we were building whole aircraft carriers at a rate of a couple dozen a year ? We were pumping out multiple other capital ships a day ?

We went from essentially nothing to over a billion artillery shells in just a couple years.

A genuine question as I honestly have no idea

Do you think that if SHTF big time, we could really produce a massive supply of weapons in a short time?

Do we still have that capability?

Do we still have enough in house manufacturing capabipity that could be switched over?

I hope so !

 

[holdover]

Russia signing an agreement with North Korea is a sure sign of weakness not strength. I can't believe what I'm reading. They might have numbers but they have no real experience whatsoever. Does anyone really think of north Korea as a goddamn military powerhouse? Seriously? Korean conscripts in Ukraine would be a sign of desperation by the Russians.

Is the US weak because we run NATO? the agreement was a military pact between Russia, China, NK, And Iran. stating if one is attacked the others are obligated to fight with them. If Russia is attacked by NATO it would mean NK will attack US bases in SK and japan as will China , Iran can block the straights of Hormuz . We dont have the troop strength to fight them all at once. Sure they are a small country but so was vietnam and they will do thier share of spreading US forces thin.

 

[tirwin1]

North Korea has the fourth largest military in the world, which can be upgraded by the Russian missile technology. Curious to see how the transfer of long range missiles to Ukraine is coming along after this N.K./Russia treaty.

Not a lot of talk about new transfer of long range missiles to Ukraine anymore.

Hey, do you think the north koreans born and raised during the famine (you know, the ones that survived despite severe malnutrition) are just "itching" to go into combat? Is that fourth largest military really the well oiled machine you imply? The first world war proved that a good machine gun squad meant that numbers don't mean shit. Here we are over 100 years later and you think sheer numbers means a goddam thing? You were blind about the evils of the soviet union so it's logical you are blind to other things as well.

I call bullshit on that. The north koreans have been doing a circle jerk for 60 years. Lots of numbers and bluster but no real combat experience. Unless you call lobbing the odd shell and some sabotage teams experience. Despite the "fourth largest military" and "30-50" nukes they haven't even managed to secure their own isthmus. Yet they now will be killers and victors in ukraine. I'm not buying that at all.