Thinking of first AR and confused

[dsdmmat]

Does the Valkrie use the same magazines as the 6.8 SPC? Sounds interesting and a direction I might take.
Robin

Yes it does also the same boltface.

 

[dsdmmat]

Get the M14 71. Once you get the AR the spending never stops
Me(?), I'm headed towards a Valkyrie upper this winter along with the dies and assorted stuff for reloading this winter. Thats okay though, I'm enjoying me foray into modernity!
Robin

This is almost accurate, you will spend a lot on the M14 as well. The only real difference is the the amount of things you can do yourself with the AR vs the M14.

 

[JamieZ]

And unless you remove the floorplate and pull out the mag guts, you have to cycle and extract each and every round putting a dimple in it's primer if you want to unload it.

You saying that tells me you dont have a pinned mag gun. I dont even have magpul mags in my guns to be able to drop the floor plate. I dont like the magpul mags. They work like shit for the 204 and they didnt have them for the 6.8 when I set it up. I have never dropped a floor plate,,,never had a reason to.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You saying that tells me you dont have a pinned mag gun. I dont even have magpul mags in my guns to be able to drop the floor plate. I dont like the magpul mags. They work like shit for the 204 and they didnt have them for the 6.8 when I set it up. I have never dropped a floor plate,,,never had a reason to.

So how did you unload?

 

[JamieZ]

Get the M14 71. Once you get the AR the spending never stops
Me(?), I'm headed towards a Valkyrie upper this winter along with the dies and assorted stuff for reloading this winter. Thats okay though, I'm enjoying me foray into modernity!
Robin

Just my opinion Robin. I thought about building the Valkyrie but a couple of things stopped me. Distance is the first,,,,where the hell am I gonna shoot it where the distance would be great enough to make it beneficial. 2nd is the barrel length,,,you pretty much have to go for 20" or longer to keep the velocity it needs to make those long distance shots. Thats why I decided against building one.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Just my opinion Robin. I thought about building the Valkyrie but a couple of things stopped me. Distance is the first,,,,where the hell am I gonna shoot it where the distance would be great enough to make it beneficial. 2nd is the barrel length,,,you pretty much have to go for 20" or longer to keep the velocity it needs to make those long distance shots. Thats why I decided against building one.

I agree. It'll do nothing a .308 can't do at normal distances. At a certain point, these calibers are just better on paper but in real life, not so much.

 

[JamieZ]

So how did you unload?

Pull the rear pin, open the gun and pull bullets from mag

 

[Marine Cpl]

Pull the rear pin, open the gun and pull bullets from mag

Ok. That's very tedious. It'll also hurt my dainty little fingers in the cold.

 

[JamieZ]

When you are done hunting, you are done,,,so its not a big deal. On the range you empty it on the target. Thats why in one of the threads in this post I gave the OP a link to bigger head pins. It makes everything so much easier. I would love to be able to just drop a mag but I would much rather have a pistol grip, a muzzle brake and a retractable stock.

 

[Robin]

I agree. It'll do nothing a .308 can't do at normal distances. At a certain point, these calibers are just better on paper but in real life, not so much.

It has nothing to do with 'penetration', ballistic jelly, or a whole host of other nano minutiae. I has everything to do with enjoying the ride.
My time, my money.
Robin

 

[Marine Cpl]

It has nothing to do with 'penetration', ballistic jelly, or a whole host of other nano minutiae. I has everything to do with enjoying the ride.
My time, my money.
Robin

Nothing wrong with that. No ill will. Just saying in case you didn't know. Many don't.

 

[Podmonkey]

It has nothing to do with 'penetration', ballistic jelly, or a whole host of other nano minutiae. I has everything to do with enjoying the ride.
My time, my money.
Robin

Here, here. I definitely enjoy shooting my Galil a little more than my ARs. That will probably change once I get the DD kitted out they way I want.

 

[Podmonkey]

You saying that tells me you dont have a pinned mag gun. I dont even have magpul mags in my guns to be able to drop the floor plate. I dont like the magpul mags. They work like shit for the 204 and they didnt have them for the 6.8 when I set it up. I have never dropped a floor plate,,,never had a reason to.

Since the 204 Ruger uses the longer 222 Magnum case I suprised they would even fit in 5.56 mags, let alone work well.
Nevertheless Magpuls are my favorite magazines.

 

[BDinPutnam]

Just my opinion Robin. I thought about building the Valkyrie but a couple of things stopped me. Distance is the first,,,,where the hell am I gonna shoot it where the distance would be great enough to make it beneficial. 2nd is the barrel length,,,you pretty much have to go for 20" or longer to keep the velocity it needs to make those long distance shots. Thats why I decided against building one.

You're talking about a guy who hand builds (beautiful and accurate) old school muzzle loaders. I'm pretty sure 20" is not a concern if this is where he wants to go.

Rock on, Rockin' @Robin.

 

[dsdmmat]

Just my opinion Robin. I thought about building the Valkyrie but a couple of things stopped me. Distance is the first,,,,where the hell am I gonna shoot it where the distance would be great enough to make it beneficial. 2nd is the barrel length,,,you pretty much have to go for 20" or longer to keep the velocity it needs to make those long distance shots. Thats why I decided against building one.

Got a few 224 Valkries now, 28" bolt rifle, 24" AR and a 20" SCR. The 28 inch makes velocity gain easy I am loading in the mid powder range and getting higher velocities than the max loads are published at.

 

[FLA45fan]

Don't worry much about finding a Wylde chamber, the NATO spec chamber is more common and likey to thus be cheaper. In any case the NATO chamber will shoot .223 spec ammo just fine, the supposed loss in a accuracy was never great and I belive that modern ammunition specs have rendered the need for the Wylde chamber somewhat moot.
I think the S&W M&P15s are the best values in the AR world, and I would advise forgoing superficial aesthetics and get a featureless build allowing you to retain the detachable magazines.
The 16" barrel with a midlength gas system is probably going to be your best option as it is the most common and also very handy and smooth shooting. Most budget ARs are going to have a 1:9 twist and that's fine, you can typically stabilize up to 62gr bullets, a 1:7 twist is generally found on models priced above budget models and will allow you to shoot the heavier 75/77gr bullets which are generally the most accurate 5.56 loads. The 1:8 twist is the most versatile allowing you to shoot the 77gr stuff while still having access to the lightweight 50gr varmint rounds should you want, the 1:8 is most often found in higher range barrels intended for competition or precision varminting models.
For plinking I prefer standard 55gr M193 clones and Hornady offers a nice relatively affordable semi match 55gr OTM load that I like.

If you're just starting out the above is a great way to get there. Don't get too crazy with all the fancy stuff. Stick with the basics. Later on you can learn all the other stuff. A Smith or a Ruger basic AR will do fine for starters. AR's are the 57 Chevy of guns; you can always customize it last or trade uppers, etc

 

[JamieZ]

Since the 204 Ruger uses the longer 222 Magnum case I suprised they would even fit in 5.56 mags, let alone work well.
Nevertheless Magpuls are my favorite magazines.

C.o.l. is the same as 223,,,,2.250 inches ,,,,, its more than likely case trim length 1.84 for 204 and 1.75 for 223,,,,,so magpul mag probably isnt really the problem but the mag follower they use,,,,,either way they suck for 204 and the metal case ones like cproducts work better.

 

[ManrisFrack]

Pull the rear pin, open the gun and pull bullets from mag

The one thing I hate about this method is that you're usually breaking the action apart with a round in the chamber. Odds of it firing that way are astronomical but I still find it sketchy and unwieldy.

 

[JamieZ]

I wouldnt worry about it because the safety is on, the trigger isnt touching the firing pin once the gun is split, the gun is pointed in a safe direction. You would pretty much have to be a total retard to fire a round off unloading the gun.

 

[JamieZ]

Got a few 224 Valkries now, 28" bolt rifle, 24" AR and a 20" SCR. The 28 inch makes velocity gain easy I am loading in the mid powder range and getting higher velocities than the max loads are published at.

I was just stating the reason why I wouldnt build one even knowwwww it just dawned on me my 204 is 20 inches and it doesnt bother me. So I guess I'm back to distance being the reason I keep telling myself NO.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I wouldnt worry about it because the safety is on, the trigger isnt touching the firing pin once the gun is split, the gun is pointed in a safe direction. You would pretty much have to be a total retard to fire a round off unloading the gun.

The sketchy part is the BCG. Sure, you make sure muzzle is pointed in a safe direction but what happens to the carrier when the round fires and there's nothing to contain the carrier? I've never tried it, but I would imagine it's gonna be a bad day if you try to use your nose as a buffer spring.

I get it - it really isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme. Having tried both though, I personally prefer the featureless route.

 

[JamieZ]

If there is nothing to contain the BCG how is the round going to fire in the first place? Something has to engage the firing pin,,,,the trigger. The trigger isnt there if there is nothing containing the BCG.

 

[Podmonkey]

If there is nothing to contain the BCG how is the round going to fire in the first place? Something has to engage the firing pin,,,,the trigger. The trigger isnt there if there is nothing containing the BCG.

It's a free floating pin. Anything that hits the back of that pin, which is exposed through the channel of the bcg, could potentially set the round off.
I think it's a one in a billion chance of happening but to ignore the possibility is reckless.

 

[ManrisFrack]

Like I said, astronomical.

 

[Podmonkey]

Frankly fixing the magazine of a detachable mag design renders that firearm into a toy. If you only want a toy then fine. Personally I would come to terms with the ergonomics of a featureless build instead.

 

[Podmonkey]

Like I said, astronomical.

But one has to be aware of the the physical possibilities.

 

[JamieZ]

It's a free floating pin. Anything that hits the back of that pin, which is exposed through the channel, could potentially set the round off.
I think it's a one in a billion chance of happening but to ignore the possibility is reckless.

Ok now we are coming up with one in a billion chances, where have you heard that? I would have to say you are wrong,,,its one in 1.9 billion chance it could happen. When they documented this there was aliens involved and a little tiny hammer came out of the sky and whacked the firing pin but it was only one time out of 1.9 billion tries,,,,so I have no idea where you are getting your information from.

 

[Podmonkey]

Ok now we are coming up with one in a billion chances, where have you heard that? I would have to say you are wrong,,,its one in 1.9 billion chance it could happen. When they documented this there was aliens involved and a little tiny hammer came out of the sky and whacked the firing pin but it was only one time out of 1.9 billion tries,,,,so I have no idea where you are getting your information from.

Look, the situation is self evident, the firing pin is exposed and accessible when you break open your AR. If something hits that pin while a round is still chambered it could potentially go off. To deny this risk is foolhardy.
Mitigate risk, don't deny it.

 

[Podmonkey]

The AR was not designed as a fixed mag system, I think converting it to be so is dumb.
Fixed mag systems need an open action to be useful. An SKS, Garand/M14, Mini 14, ect.

 

[ManrisFrack]

If you're worried about where the muzzle is pointed after you break the action, you should also be worried about where the BCG is pointed. You can't get a round out the muzzle without the BCG flying out the other end on a shotgunned AR that's in proper working order.