Thinking of first AR and confused

[Marine Cpl]

Featureless rifles aren't great, just better than fixed mags which are too cumbersome for defensive use.
I selected the third option myself.

Yep. I'm sure if anyone here got magically teleported to a warzone and saw 8 magazines on the ground next to a fixed mag rifle along with a featureless, they'd pick the featureless in a heartbeat. To say otherwise is BS.

Here it's all about looks with BS complaints about how their wrists hurt.

 

[Uzi]

Featureless rifles aren't great, just better than fixed mags which are too cumbersome for defensive use.
I selected the third option myself.

You're absolutely right they're not great, they're crap. Converting one back to a normal configuration would require a totally different upper, or complete barrel change because of a non threaded barrel allowing no attachments, so more muzzle rise, more muzzle flash, more recoil etc. Barrel attachments have come a long ways today, and it's better to utilize one to your preference.
No stock or adjustability of any kind, horrible by itself considering different people require different positions for a good sight picture, accuracy, and overall better control. A completely unnatural grip angle for the receiver (terrible I've tried it). Ruins closed arm/hand tuck positions and while behind cover or concealment. Adds time it would take to swap all that shit out in comparison to adding just a spring to a button for a gun that has all of those features already. So what you have is a hunting rifle for self defense. A fixed magazine is absolutely a toy, but a toy that easily can become a serious primary defensive firearm in a very short period of time with no extra money, parts/changes other than your spare mil spec spring and button.

You're not the only one with a 3rd option, but you literally only need your fingers to have a fully functional and ergonomically correct AR.... Can't say the same for featureless rifles. It really makes me laugh though, I perceive this fantasy super tactical scenario were some think they'll be dropping mags left and right cartwheeling from the couch to the kitchen during a home invasion.
So some some stupid teenager and his drunk buddy smashed out your family room window, tried to grab the keys to your car and flee and you didn't have time to put on your plate carrier with 3 extra 10 round magazines ; as you run back to the bedroom for them, you wake up and realize it was all a dream. "I decided not to use my shotgun for home defense because it didn't have detachable magazines" kind of shit really. Statistics don't lie about round count, and there is also no more potential for a malfunction with either one and those are really important factors to consider. What if what if what if though? This is also why you'd have a secondary pistol in any event ideally, and in reality many do 24/7, but I digress. You can't ignore the fact that compliant rifles, BOTH, are crap for serious defensive use as they sit.
My main point is that what matters to me before they're banned when in NYS is that, one rifle is undoubtedly better for a quick switch which seems to be kind of the consensus for owning one besides the range toy and additional personalizing factor that can be utilized.
It's also no wonder why because of this advantage many people are nervous about the legality and permanence of a fixed magazine option due to its capability to easily be swapped out. You'd need a pistol grip, telescoping stock, and different barrel to utilize the full functionality; A little different than the addition of a spring.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Boy. That was a nonsensical, long drawed out drivel that said absolutely nothing.

 

[Uzi]

Yep. I'm sure if anyone here got magically teleported to a warzone and saw 8 magazines on the ground next to a fixed mag rifle along with a featureless, they'd pick the featureless in a heartbeat. To say otherwise is BS.

That's a great way to overlook reality. Once more, I'm sure most civilians in NYS would not choose NYS compliant AR-15 variants to fight in "war zones" given the option. At best, home defense while in their compliant configuration. Using strangely constructed examples that require things like "teleportation" and "magic" don't say much about real life. Either way, a civilian in a war zone firefight is likely going to die either way no matter what rifle they have if that's all they have with no help or support.

 

[Uzi]

Boy. That was a nonsensical, long drawed out drivel that said absolutely nothing.

That was a long a drawn out way of saying "nu ugh!"

 

[Marine Cpl]

You sound like Darth today.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Anyway.

#1. Collapsible stocks don't make fighting rifles. I actually carried an A2 oversees.

#2. Muzzle devices also don't make fighting rifles.

#3. A 10 Rd fixed magazine for home defense is just stupid. I'm sure you can figure out why.

#4. This spring you are talking about doesn't pertain to T-nuts, MR2’s/ AR maglocks, FC Hooks, and similar devices.

#5. A featureless with a Thordsen for example only involves the turn of a screw to take off, replace grip, and the sliding of a stock on. That's less than 1 minute to do. It's even faster with a spur since the stock is already on. But it won't have a muzzle device so it's no good right?

#6. I didn't realize we had to convert them so quickly but anyway, less than a minute. In the meantime, before that quick conversion, you still always had a functional rifle that you can actually fight with.

 

[Podmonkey]

A bolt override malfunction would be very difficult to clear with a fixed magazine since removing the magazine is generally necessary for remedial action and the overriden round will keep you from breaking open the action.
Frankly the stigma of a fixed magazine in my mind is far greater than the stigma of an odd looking stock. In fact clearing any malfunction properly involves dropping the magazine first. Again, the SCR the best compliant option, saftey od relocated to within fingers reach and it looks alright.
I will never be convinced that a fixed magazine AR is anything other than a vain range toy.
Forna compliant option even an M1 Garand is better. Actually if limited on "feature" and to 10 rounds the M1 is a perfectly viable alternative, as is the SKS. I'm just glad I fucking moved out of that communist shithole.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I would gladly even carry a Mini 14 or a pump action in Iraq before a fixed magazine rifle that looks cool.

But hey. It's all about the call of duty features. That's more important. It's more important to adjust a stock 2 inches and have a flash suppressor that marginally suppresses flash at night and none during the day than it is to reload properly and perform remedial action when things go wrong.

I did it wrong. I rocked an A2 stock, parade sling, and iron sights oversees. What the fuck do I know?



And what the fuck does this dude know? He's missing a pistol grip, collapsible stock, and a muzzle device. Hell, his rifle only fires one at a time. What an idiot this guy is.

 

[Uzi]

I'm not debating if a fixed magazine rifle is great for fighting wars and stupid shit like that, that's silly and idiotic. Where did that come from? It's not ideal for self defense either, and that's not why you should get one. You can keep trying this silly approach, but what for? I feel like I've made myself fairly clear at this point, but I can try again for you if you're really that confused. If someone were to be potentially engaging in a fire fight of some sort for whatever reason, maybe it's SHTF etc. doesn't matter; they'd be able to simply swap out just the button and spring on several similar mag locks and have a normal functioning rifle with the advantages that the features offer. Don't be silly and sit here and tell me relocating gas to reduce muzzle rise doesn't do anything. Don't tell me that being able to adjust a shoulder stock won't and can't help an operator that is larger or smaller. Don't tell me adding a pistol grip isn't superior in ergonomics and being able to hold and tuck in a rifle with easier manipulation and articulation of the wrist. Don't tell me that adding a forward grip is useless because nobody needs a forward grip because you don't like one. "call of duty features" You sound like a liberal politician trying to ban military features so we're all left with 22lr bolt guns. But that's all you need right?.. (don't answer that it's a joke). My point is not that, fixed mag rifles should be used in the military, it's that fixed mag rifles are a better choice when a civilian needs one the most. Meaning, you can swap two tiny components and have a BETTER rifle configuration as compared to a hunting rifle setup on an ar-15. I know that's like REALLY hard to understand still I bet. I'm glad you'd feel safe with a pump action while in Iraq, I'm sure you'd do great. I can't believe what I'm reading, talk about nonsense.

 

[Podmonkey]

Well this has degraded into a silly argument now, hasn't it?

 

[Marine Cpl]

It sure has because I cannot ever see any reason to convert a fixed magazine to a fully featured functional rifle in this silly state. As per your own silly argument, all you'd have to do is modify a spring. And what would be that cause to do so if you don't want to use silly scenarios?

But what I do see is using a functional rifle for defense and to do that, it's silly to use a toy that looks good.

As far as features go, when I finally was issued an M4 years later, it was set and forget 2 notches out on the stock. I wasn't constantly collapsing and extending like call of duty operators. My stature doesn't change all that much even with body armor or a flak vest. All those Marines rocking A2 stocks were at a real disadvantage I guess. Good thing things changed or they would have lost the war.

As far as muzzle devices go, the flash suppressor does nothing for muzzle rise on a 5.56. It does a little with a brake but who the hell would want one of those noise and concussion makers indoors? You are talking about a marginal decrease in muzzle rise. Marginal. Unless you are telling me that 5.56 recoil is so dramatic that it needs one. I'm guessing that probably isn't the case.

As far as forward grip's go, that too isn't necessary compared to the function of a rifle with a removable magazine. I rocked those when they first came out for a while and eventually scraped those.

What you are basically saying is that features trump functional magazine load and unloads. If that's what you are saying, then that's all I need to know from you.

You like toys in hopes for silly scenarios that aren't going to happen because in your own words you are saying that you wouldn't use it for combat. Defense is combat so I guess you wouldn't use it for that either. You have it for a silly scenario where you envision yourself changing it over.

Enjoy your toy. No hard feelings. It's okay to have a toy. I prefer to have a functional rifle for more realistic scenarios than imagined ones.

 

[JamieZ]

Holy crap for fucks sake. Which one of you super commandos is not living in NY,,,a non combat zone? Who the fuck cares what choices you make for a compliant rifle or a semi compliant rifle. To each their own. Do you all just like to make shit up on an internet forum that benefits your thoughts and opinions and shits on others opinions or choices? God,,,who the fuck cares which rifle you think is better. The builder or the buyer made a choice which one he wants. If the builder or a buyer cant defend his home with 10 rounds or cant defend his home with a gun without a pistol grip that you can change mags with,,,,then they couldnt defend their home with a freaking tank.

People own guns for hunting, people own guns for target shooting, people own guns because they think they could end up in a combat situation. Not everyone makes their choices based on why you purchased or built your gun the way you did.

Get the fuck over it already.

 

[FLA45fan]

Now back to our regularly scheduled program. . .
I still think a basic Smith or Ruger will be more than sufficient for your first. I'm grabbing another one of these just because I can.