Trump indicted in classified documents probe

[Jmac00]

What I really want to know is why Trump insisted on keeping documents related to the nuclear capabilities of other countries, why he wanted to keep documents related to a war plan against Iran, and why he wanted to keep documents related to the military capabilities of certain Middle Eastern countries? What did he intend to do with these documents. Use them as wallpaper? Place mats on the kitchen table?

JOSHUA STEINMAN OF THE NSC:
The President of the United States is the “Original Classification Authority,” and holds the ultimate authority to classify and declassify information.
This power is typically delegated to various departments and agencies. But ultimately it is POTUS’s.
Classification process is for every person **but** the President, who, as OCA [Original Classification Authority], can do anything he wants.
None of the rules apply to him, because they are **his** directives to all others.
The VP. The Cabinet.
Everyone else.
POTUS could tweet out the PDB [Presidential Daily Briefing]
Legal.
Sometimes I would travel with POTUS on AF1 — there’s always an NSC staffer in case of emergency — and the rule was, no matter where you were, you gave him the full briefing.
Because it was **his** information you were protecting, per Article 2 of the US Constitution.
Backstage at a rally in WV?
Full briefing.
Middle of a golf course in Virginia?
Full briefing.
The mere act of packing up the documents and sending them to his designated archive location — completed while he was President, and OCA — is sufficient.

END OF THE DEBATE! Everything 45 has done, WAS LEGAL, according to all laws, rules and regulations. This IS a illegal witch hunt,By a DOJ that thinks they are the ultimate authority, and reports to no one.
The house OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE has a far different opinion.

 

[Jmac00]

I'm really not sure what you're asking. There was considerable concern about a prosecutor being corrupt in Ukraine, many countries besides the USA had concerns about this guy. The USA held up aid to Ukraine in order to convince them to fire the guy and hire somebody new.

So what is your question? Are we not allowed to hold up aid to try to convince countries to fire corrupt people?

there is a difference between "holding up aid" and extortion.

When biden said "if you don't fire the prosecutor, you don't get 6 billion dollars, and Im leaving in 6 hours" THATS EXTORTION

 

[Jmac00]

Kari Lake, speaking in Georgia tonight, says that if Merrick Garland wants to get Trump, he will have to go through 75 million Americans “and most of us are card-carrying members of the NRA. That’s not a threat, that’s a public service announcement.”

“You guys in the Media want to find actual evidence of crimes committed? Check out Hillary Clinton’s server. Check out Hunter Biden’s laptop. Frankly, if you’re looking for evidence of a crime, look at Monica Lewinsky’s dress.”

Standing ovation.

 

[Jmac00]

ooh this just gets better and better :

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) normally oversees the removal of documents.
They refused to assist with Trump’s records. Which means they forced Trump and his staff to do it themselves without NARA oversight.
They then put in the documents argument that Trump had removed things without their knowledge or agreement. A situation THEY set up. That’s the complaint that kickstarted the whole issue and has now been inflated by Democrats into an Espionage case.
Newsmax and former Trump lawyers outlined all this.
This means the entire thing they have now made an indictment was set up, by them, as an entrapment criminalising the totally standard removal of declassified documents by a departing President. They refused a standard duty, forcing a minor deviation in process that would go completely unnoticed without malign intent to use it, then used the deviation as a cause of complaint.
This is worse than what I said earlier about Trump communicating with them and doing everything by the book which he did within the bounds of what they made possible or impossible. They actually BLOCKED him from following usual procedure right at the start to CREATE the case they then inflated into a much more serious case.
Like the steal itself, this was all planned and coordinated long in advance, and the evidence that it was itself a criminal conspiracy is public. They removed him from office illegally, they reversed an election result illegally, and they illegally conspired by dereliction of standard duties to set up a means of imprisoning him later should they need to.
It’s like using your car to force a driver into a bus lane and then using a driving in a bus lane offence that normally results in a small fine to charge him with vehicular homicide with a 20 year prison sentence after nobody was hurt and he’d corrected the course as soon as he was allowed to.
But other Republicans still want to go on with the charade, the absolute joke, of their own bids for the White House and their craven, dishonest, shameful pretence that it’s trouble that only applies to Trump and that otherwise the system can be trusted."
Thanks Daniel Jupp!

 

[Victor18]

there is a difference between "holding up aid" and extortion.

When biden said "if you don't fire the prosecutor, you don't get 6 billion dollars, and Im leaving in 6 hours" THATS EXTORTION

So you're saying Trump committed extortion against Ukraine when he held up aid for months because the President of Ukraine refused to provide Trump with campaign assistance and give a speech supporting him? Interesting.

 

[spat]

So you're saying Trump committed extortion against Ukraine when he held up aid for months because the President of Ukraine refused to provide Trump with campaign assistance and give a speech supporting him? Interesting.

Except Trump never did anything like that.

Trump *talked* about *maybe* holding up aid (which, as POTUS, is his purvue) but all the aid in question was delivered as scheduled.

Now, Biden is the one who bragged on national TV about doing that *as VP*. There is question about whether he was doing it on orders from POTUS, or on his own. If the latter, it is absolutely illegal.

POTUS is the head of state in the US. While it is illegal for an individual to extort a foreign government, it is not for the US as a whole to do so. In fact, that is basically business as usual.

So, then the question becomes, were these incidents official US foreign policy, or were they acts by individual US officials for personal reasons.

The difference is that as head of state, POTUS is the sole determiner of what is official US foreign policy. VPOTUS is not.

A very interesting development might be if Biden were prosecuted for his incident, and he called Obama as a witness to swear that it was under orders from POTUS. That might actually be a valid defense.

Obviously Trump would not need to call himself to swear that he ordered it.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

The prosecutor of this case , Jack Smith, is one of two Federal Prosecutors that I know of who have had convictions overturned unanimously by the US Supreme Court for charging people with actions that were not crimes. Also you cannot obstruct criminal investigations into actions that are not crimes.
The other is Andrew Weisman, head honcho for the Mueller Investigation.
The lawyer that argued before the Supreme Court against Weissman was Sidney Powell.

 

[DoOver]

Trump is a accused of behavior nobody has accused Biden of doing. And they don't have recordings of Biden pretty much admitting that he committed a crime. And they don't have witnesses accusing Biden of committing a crime and trying to get them to conspire with him. Trump is in big trouble.

Jeepers how 'bout "...we have the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization..."

 

[Victor18]

Except Trump never did anything like that.

Trump *talked* about *maybe* holding up aid (which, as POTUS, is his purvue) but all the aid in question was delivered as scheduled.

Now, Biden is the one who bragged on national TV about doing that *as VP*. There is question about whether he was doing it on orders from POTUS, or on his own. If the latter, it is absolutely illegal.

POTUS is the head of state in the US. While it is illegal for an individual to extort a foreign government, it is not for the US as a whole to do so. In fact, that is basically business as usual.

So, then the question becomes, were these incidents official US foreign policy, or were they acts by individual US officials for personal reasons.

The difference is that as head of state, POTUS is the sole determiner of what is official US foreign policy. VPOTUS is not.

A very interesting development might be if Biden were prosecuted for his incident, and he called Obama as a witness to swear that it was under orders from POTUS. That might actually be a valid defense.

Obviously Trump would not need to call himself to swear that he ordered it.

Sounds like you're saying president of the United States has the authority to do whatever he wants or even kill whoever he wants, and his defense will be he had the right to do it as Commander in Chief.

"If the President does it, its not illegal" -Richard Nixon

 

[GOYABEAN]

 

[DoOver]

Sounds like you're saying president of the United States has the authority to do whatever he wants or even kill whoever he wants, and his defense will be he had the right to do it as Commander in Chief.

"If the President does it, its not illegal" -Richard Nixon

Sounds like you're saying a sitting Senator can rape his subordinates with impunity or even his own 11 year old daughter...blah blah blah?

 

[Victor18]

Sounds like you're saying a sitting Senator can rape his subordinates with impunity or even his own 11 year old daughter...blah blah blah?

 

[lrick]

So you're saying Trump committed extortion against Ukraine when he held up aid for months because the President of Ukraine refused to provide Trump with campaign assistance and give a speech supporting him? Interesting.

Of course he never said anything of the kind. Typical tactic, falsely infer a meaning that was never implied to deflect from answering the question and reverse the context to put the opposition in a defensive posture...the Lib equivalent of "I'm rubber you're glue". Nothing else to add on the topic, @spat said it all very well.

But what is hilarious to me is that trolls like you believe you are actually debating. And yes, you fit the definition of a troll - no posts to support being a part of the 2A community - only here to instigate. You pick at low hanging fruit using dishonest tactics as cited above (ETA: and you did it again in post #129) and avoid addressing more substantive posts like Jmac's last one (#124). Even our resident libs appear to be lacking in taking up your arguments. (But at least they have a foot in the 2A community, why they align with the likes of you, I'll never know.)

What you fail to recognize is the substance that is added to this thread by rebutting your foolish quips.

Normally, a thread like this would contain a bunch of memes, quoted & linked articles & tweets, etc and a whole lot of commiserating and preaching to the choir.

But you're too stupid to see any of it or how you expose yourself. You're really not even a good troll. You really haven't derailed anything (shit, I've done more with this single post than you - I hope you guys forgive me ) and just provided tons of opportunity to get owned. So, in a weird way...thanks.

 

[lrick]

Does this feel a bit ominous to anybody?

I hope shit doesn't go sideways....and if it did, was that the intended OP and the indictment was just the set-up?

Secret Service will not seek ‘special accommodations’ for Trump’s Miami court appearance

The Secret Service will not seek “special accommodations” ahead of former President Donald Trump’s arraignment in a Miami federal courthouse on charges related to his alleged mishandling of classif…

nypost.com

Unlike Trump’s Manhattan indictment in March, the US Secret Service and US Marshals did not get advance notice about the charges, leaving law enforcement “scrambling” to prepare for his Tuesday court appearance, CNN reported.

On Friday, an advance team of Secret Service agents began meeting with federal court marshals and Miami law enforcement officials to determine how to create a “security bubble around Trump,” according to the Washington Post.

Trump’s security detail is still working out the plan for how to transport him from his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Fla., to the courthouse some 70 miles to the south, according to the Washington Post, with some Secret Service officials raising concerns about driving him there and back in a secure motorcade.

 

[JaguarJaguarGolf]

Sounds like you're saying president of the United States has the authority to do whatever he wants or even kill whoever he wants, and his defense will be he had the right to do it as Commander in Chief.

"If the President does it, its not illegal" -Richard Nixon

Yes, that’s pretty much the way it goes.

Nixon didn’t cover up the break in to Democratic HQ under his scope of authority as CinC. Maybe he could have now that we know how actually traitorous the Democrats were, and are, now.

 

[Bruce_Sloane]

Robin !!
How' s You and Maggie been ??
Smudgie says hello.

 

[spat]

Sounds like you're saying president of the United States has the authority to do whatever he wants or even kill whoever he wants, and his defense will be he had the right to do it as Commander in Chief.

"If the President does it, its not illegal" -Richard Nixon

The president is the head of the executive branch of the government.

He can't do whatever he wants, but there *are* things he can do that nobody else can legally.

Technically everything anyone in the executive branch does they do as authority delegated from him.

So, *if* the US government can do it legally, he can do it. Anyone else would have to go through proper channels for approval. But POTUS *is* the top of all the channels.

That's why Biden as VPOTUS could have only legally done what he did if he was acting under authority delegated from Obama. If he was doing it on his own, it's illegal.

Now, obviously it's legal for the US government to attach all sorts of strings to aid. That's really the only reason they offer it to begin with. But, those strings are only legal when they are official US government policy, and not legal if they are part of some personal "cut my son's company some slack" bullshit.

POTUS ,as head of state, is unique in that policy is what he says it is. Do you disagree with that ?

 

[Bruce_Sloane]

Robin !!
How's You and Maggie been ??
Smudgie says hello.

 

[Bruce_Sloane]

.........

 

[Jmac00]

So you're saying Trump committed extortion against Ukraine when he held up aid for months because the President of Ukraine refused to provide Trump with campaign assistance and give a speech supporting him? Interesting.

read Spats post #126

 

[Defilade]

 

[Defilade]

Sounds like you're saying president of the United States has the authority to do whatever he wants or even kill whoever he wants, and his defense will be he had the right to do it as Commander in Chief.

"If the President does it, its not illegal" -Richard Nixon

 

[Defilade]

 

[Defilade]

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[Bruce_Sloane]

That was ...evilm..
Dr Evil

 

[lrick]

Great point. The best you've made so far.

 

[Dr. Evil]

What a week!

On Thursday, proof that Joe Biden sold out this country was shown to Republicans in Congress.

Later that day, Donald Trump was indicted on federal charges.

Yesterday, he went out and played golf.

Cool as a cucumber.

You may be asking yourself, how can someone who is facing so much political and potentially criminal pressure just smack his balls around a golf course without seemingly a care in the world? Well, there are several reasons actually:

1. Trump is being indicted in Florida not Washington DC. That's a plus for any non-lib who wants a fair trial.
2. The judge on the case is a conservative appointed by Trump. She doesn't put up with left-wing BS.
3. The charges are basically bogus and should be thrown out. (Everyone knows this.)
4. By the time this reaches the Supreme Court, Trump could be back in office...and probably will be.

In fact, what we've learned from Joe Biden's unprecedented weaponization of the Federal Government, the federal court system, the Department of Justice, and the FBI is that the best defense for Donald Trump (or any of us) is to WIN, WIN, WIN in 2024!

What Joe Biden has created with his unrivaled corruption a vast political divide where the party in power gets all the power and the party out of power gets nothing.

If democrats hold the White House, democrats are safe from persecution and prosecution. Not just elected officials, but all of them.

Hunter Biden, Eric Swalwell, Antifa, shoplifters in New York, drug users in San Francisco. Nobody on the left is ever held accountable for their actions.

Instead, the "Justice" Department goes after republicans, calling them "White Supremacist Extremists" and falsely claiming that White Supremacy is the greatest threat we face as a nation.

The only way to stop this one-sided political retribution is to win elections. If Republicans are in office, republicans are safe. If they aren't, then they aren't.

Not the country we thought we lived in, but the reality of where we find ourselves today.

Trump coming back to power doesn't just free him, it free's us all.

And the four years that follow...could be the best four years this country has every experienced.

Just like it says on the back of my new "TRUMPINATOR" Bobblehead, "He'll be back!" It's imperative that we do whatever we can to make sure that happens.

More on that tomorrow...

 

[ManualF150]

I sure hope Trump gets back in.

This country is in big need of Trump.

 

[lrick]

What a week!

On Thursday, proof that Joe Biden sold out this country was shown to Republicans in Congress.

Later that day, Donald Trump was indicted on federal charges.

Yesterday, he went out and played golf.

Cool as a cucumber.

You may be asking yourself, how can someone who is facing so much political and potentially criminal pressure just smack his balls around a golf course without seemingly a care in the world? Well, there are several reasons actually:

1. Trump is being indicted in Florida not Washington DC. That's a plus for any non-lib who wants a fair trial.
2. The judge on the case is a conservative appointed by Trump. She doesn't put up with left-wing BS.
3. The charges are basically bogus and should be thrown out. (Everyone knows this.)
4. By the time this reaches the Supreme Court, Trump could be back in office...and probably will be.

In fact, what we've learned from Joe Biden's unprecedented weaponization of the Federal Government, the federal court system, the Department of Justice, and the FBI is that the best defense for Donald Trump (or any of us) is to WIN, WIN, WIN in 2024!

What Joe Biden has created with his unrivaled corruption a vast political divide where the party in power gets all the power and the party out of power gets nothing.

If democrats hold the White House, democrats are safe from persecution and prosecution. Not just elected officials, but all of them.

Hunter Biden, Eric Swalwell, Antifa, shoplifters in New York, drug users in San Francisco. Nobody on the left is ever held accountable for their actions.

Instead, the "Justice" Department goes after republicans, calling them "White Supremacist Extremists" and falsely claiming that White Supremacy is the greatest threat we face as a nation.

The only way to stop this one-sided political retribution is to win elections. If Republicans are in office, republicans are safe. If they aren't, then they aren't.

Not the country we thought we lived in, but the reality of where we find ourselves today.

Trump coming back to power doesn't just free him, it free's us all.

And the four years that follow...could be the best four years this country has every experienced.

Just like it says on the back of my new "TRUMPINATOR" Bobblehead, "He'll be back!" It's imperative that we do whatever we can to make sure that happens.

More on that tomorrow...

Exactly. and the reason for my concern in post #134