Urban, suburban or rural

[Drinkthekoolaid]

Where do you think is the best place to live during a major SHTF. Lets discuss pros and cons of each environment.

I've seen multiple sources each have different advice and ideas for where is the better place to be in SHTF.


Personally my .02 cents from what I've thought about it seems the best scenario would be right on the outskirts of a small town in a rural area and far from major metro areas.

 

[Podmonkey]

Obviously rural. But only if you have prepared ahead of time. Otherwise you will be going predator mode and urban is prolly better for that

 

[FrankenCub]

I prefer being as far away from any large city as possible, even far away from large towns. My thinking is even being on the outskirts will be easy access for roving bands of scum bags. The farther away you get the less likely they will have easy access to transportation to get to you. They would probably be conserving on what fuel they have and less likely to trust going into areas they don't know well.

 

[Robin]

According to that fellow in Argentina that wrote a book on his personal experiences in a SHTF situation, the rural folks were the most vulnerable , rape and murder were common, and perpetrated by roving urban gangs fronted by cops.
Robin

 

[Phauxtoe]

yes the rural South african farmers are taking a beating and by that i mean are being murdered!

you need to be far away in a multi family compound or in a remote and hidden location.

 

[freddy]

Strength in numbers.

 

[livingston]

I prefer being as far away from any large city as possible, even far away from large towns. My thinking is even being on the outskirts will be easy access for roving bands of scum bags. The farther away you get the less likely they will have easy access to transportation to get to you. They would probably be conserving on what fuel they have and less likely to trust going into areas they don't know well.

Mad max situation ... They will scout on Harleys perhaps even everyone on a bike .. As I mentioned before One travels through rural China there are 30-100 dwellings in a clusters surrounded by farmland every few miles . Bandits roamed at will in the early history of the 1900's .. Too much trouble to attack a small village VS a rural farmhouse . ..... Safety in numbers.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I think you want to be away from the starving horde, so away from major metro areas. And if your in a rural area hopefully you have available resources nearby (farming, hunting, fishing etc..) and ideally if you are in a small town with decent people or some sort of retreat location you can form a community milita to keep marrauders away. As a small community you can trade and barter, work on projects together, hopefully some crude medical help, training and assistance, etc..


I think there is a real threat that if you are off on your own in a rural location with no help nearby and you are isolated that if you are discovered you are an easy target to be picked off.

But on the flip side I would want absolutely no part of being in a city that would go downhill so fast.

 

[FrankenCub]

The problem with countries like Argentina and SA is the availability of decent firearms for the citizens. I agree with the safety in numbers, definitely, will have certain friends and family in the same location if need be. But, those roving bands better know the land well, which they wont. Even if there's 100 of them they lost the advantage when they stepped into wooded land they don't know. When you know the land it's rediculously easy to hide or snipe from cover. I won't do cities.

 

[FrankenCub]

Even trying to play the grey man in urban areas makes you a target. At some point, anyone not involved in a gang will be a target. You either fight on their turf or force them to bring the fight to you, on your terms.

 

[Podmonkey]

Strength in numbers.

Have gun(s), will travel.

 

[Criticalt]

Im good where I am.
I have food, water, shelter and protection.
My driveway looks like a small dirt road and the house is well off the road, it cannot be seen from the road.
Also, there are no wires coming from the powerlines to my house. Thats a big adavantage when trying to be inconspicuous.
We also have several surprises for unwanted visitors.
We have dogs that live outside(by choice) who will alert to humans....no deer or other dogs, just humans.

The closest urban city is Buffalo, 90 miles away.

 

[tirwin1]

There is a difference between SHTF scenarios and what people would refer to as "the end of the world" or TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it).

The end of civilization, mad-max scenarios are fun to discuss but are probably unrealistic. A SHTF scenario is much more realistic because we have actual real world examples of them (i.e Argentina, Venezuela, South Africa). What does that mean?

• Greater economic distress, aka depression
• Higher inflation, reduced goods and services
• Reduced govt presence where it counts - police, fire, ambulance
• Reduced infrastructure spending - sewage, water treatment, road repair
• Much higher levels of crime - theft, rape and murder

In other words - day to day life goes on, but it is much more difficult and much less pleasant.

In this scenario I think suburbs or small towns are better. As the author "Ferfal" wrote in his book, no matter how remote a location is - if you got there so can someone else (or a group of people). The reality is what white farmers in south africa are currently experiencing - high levels of crime including theft, rape and murder. Numbers count and the more isolated you are the more exposed you are. Also, the more remote you are, the further away from any hospital you are. This is a big factor if you fall ill, break a leg or have a heart attack. I think there was some domestic SHTF guru who died of a heart attack because he lived too far away from a hospital to get there in time.

Now, the one quibble I have with Ferfal's book (highly recommended btw) has to do with the differences between this country and latin american countries. In america cities in general (and inner cities in particular) are the shitholes. In latin american countries the cities tend to be where the rich and powerful live and therefore have better neighborhoods. That doesn't mean there are no shithole locations in their cities. It's just that the pricier neighborhoods in latin america are in the cities while they tend to be in the suburbs in the US.

In this country, one thing that isn't really discussed is the large number of welfare recipients or others on the govt dole in rural locations. Percentage wise african americans have higher poverty and welfare rates, but there are still a whole lot of rural white people on welfare. In a SHTF scenario, when the payouts are reduced (either outright or through greater inflation) these people will become just as desperate as people in the inner cities. I believe the safest locations will be the suburbs where you will find like minded people. That doesn't mean there won't be assholes and criminals in the suburbs but the odds will be better. Of course this all depends on the type of suburb you live in, it's proximity to a large city and a number of other factors.

 

[Robin]

It doesn't worry me, I like where I live and if it ever came to fighting marauding scum that would just be a different ending than what I would have hoped for, but everything, everything has a price and I sincerely doubt that that type of horde is willing to pay what I will demand.
Robin

 

[Mk44]

Like they ^ said.... going to a rural area has it's good and bad. You might be alone for awhile. but when others venture in that direction in a SHTF scenario(maybe w/bad intentions.) Be sure you can protect your love ones from multi marauders. Because the further you're away from everyone else, the less likely anyone will hear your call for help. just my $0.02

 

[Criticalt]

What maybe some dont realize about rural vs cties/suburbs is that we dont live in a movie like Mad Max.
The people coming for your stuff arent going to be militarized, trained soldiers.
They will be the same losers that live on welfare, are afraid of spiders and have never worked for shit in their lives. Or maybe the lazy couch potato that drives to the store 4 blocks away for a pack of smokes. How about the white collar business guy who gets manicures and wears slacks.
I dont care what anyone who wrote a book once says, 20 people come to my house looking for trouble, there will be 20 graves dug.
No question a rural location with a little planning will always be my choice.

 

[Marine Cpl]

The exact same thing will happen in the cities first. When victims run out, it'll be the outskirts, followed by the rural areas.

At least if you are in a rural area, you have time to prepare.

 

[Podmonkey]

I gots nobody so I reiterate, have gun(s), ammo(s), and training(s), will travel.

 

[Mk44]

I can't see the city /suburb folks going out to the rural areas. They wouldn't know how to survive out there. many are afraid bears & coyotes or the woods in the dark. Many have trouble finding their car in a parking lot, I doubt they'll try walking in the woods. With them knowing that, city folks won't venture that far. I would be more concern about the local hunters that know the woods. Once they run low on resources. They'll gather together w/ friends/relatives and go searching. Whether it's gasoline, food, meds, etc..

 

[GOPerfect]

I live in the suburbs, I am a couple of miles from the Buffalo city limits and at least 12 miles from Downtown.

Depending on what situation arises, will depend on what I do.

Most of the city dwellers, I think, will stay in the city for a while. Many are seriously lacking transportation. Staying in my house for a while will be fine, the biggest issue that I have is most around me have no clue what may be coming. Very ill prepared for anything. People around me were beyond screwed when we lost power for a few days.

I do not believe there are many in the immediate area that do any type of serious prepping.

I have land, just the right size, about an hour and a half drive. I have mapped out multiple routes to get there. No worries, well not many anyway.

One big issue that I see with going all Rural, some of those people are plain nuts. They are very protective of what is theirs. Sometimes you have no idea what they claim to be theirs. More tight nip groups as well and many times, they will not take to "outsiders.

The whole notion that there will always be food in the Rural areas is not really as true as some believe.

If all hell breaks loose, I intend to go to West Virginia, everything I need is there. Difficult part may be actually getting there in one piece.

 

[GOPerfect]

Almost does not matter where you go if you are not willing to kill all that get in your way.

 

[Podmonkey]

Lovell is right, after a period of intense Darwinian selection the city folk that survive will be experienced, effective and utterly ruthless raiders. And they will spread out in search of resources wherever they may be.

 

[Criticalt]

Lovell is right, after a period of intense Darwinian selection the city folk that survive will be experienced, effective and utterly ruthless raiders. And they will spread out in search of resources wherever they may be.

That would take years.
During that time I will become that much more experienced, effective and utterly ruthless.
My advantage is im already all of those and im relatively young and very healthy.
And I have friends who are younger and as ruthless.
Seriously, numbers dont worry me. Id prefer a group of 20 people versus 2 or 3 sneaky people.

 

[Podmonkey]

That would take years.
During that time I will become that much more experienced, effective and utterly ruthless.
My advantage is im already all of those and im relatively young and very healthy.
And I have friends who are younger and as ruthless.
Seriously, numbers dont worry me. Id prefer a group of 20 people versus 2 or 3 sneaky people.

Not if you are bunkered down in the sticks twiddling your thumbs and getting soft off your reserves while the urban loonies are hardening themselves in gang warfare.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I gots nobody so I reiterate, have gun(s), ammo(s), and training(s), will travel.

Hmm. I've been saying most of these points on almost every thread we've had on the subject.

 

[Podmonkey]

Hmm. I've been saying most of these points on almost every thread we've had on the subject.

You are the Morrie from Goodfellas of the NYGF forums.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You are the Morrie from Goodfellas of the NYGF forums.

I always say to be grey, eat your stashed food at night, and beg for food just like everyone else. Don't advertise that you are prepared.

All that multicam and plate carrier BS will get you killed once a hardened criminal veteran sees you walking around if you are alone and not in a permanent group of fighters.

 

[Podmonkey]

I always say to be grey, eat your stashed food at night, and beg for food just like everyone else. Don't advertise that you are prepared.

All that multicam and plate carrier BS will get you killed once a hardened criminal veteran sees you walking around if you are alone and not in a permanent group of fighters.

Actually I disagree with the second point. Criminals are predators and successful predators will always try to go after the weakest prey first. Even if Mr. Multicam Plate carrier is a totally inept mall ninja it is difficult to ascertain that at a glance. I think such items would serve as a deterrent actually. The real problem is that it would draw attention from any surviving authorities or could negatively affect tge perceptions of non criminal types.

Thats why I like the two layer lopro "battle" belts available. On such I can carry small compliment of all the basics in a package I can conceal under a coat or quickly remove and don as the situation merits.
The particular one I have I quite like and it served me very well in my last class.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Actually I disagree with the second point. Criminals are predators and successful predators will always try to go after the weakest prey first. Even if Mr. Multicam Plate carrier is a totally inept mall ninja it is difficult to ascertain that at a glance. I think such items would serve as a deterrent actually. The real problem is that it would draw attention from any surviving authorities or could negatively affect tge perceptions of non criminal types.

If I was hungry, I'd follow you home from a distance because I'd know you'll have ammo and food. I'd take my time and count who's in your home. Once you step out to piss on your lawn at 8pm, you'd be shot from a distance.

I wouldn't follow home the guy with a beard, dirty jeans, and who may appear to be unarmed who was recently begging at the Town square.

Thats why I like the two layer lopro "battle" belts available. On such I can carry small compliment of all the basics in a package I can conceal under a coat or quickly remove and don as the situation merits.
The particular one I have I quite like and it served me very well in my last class.

That's being grey sir.

 

[Uzi]

Why run to the woods? Too many people that don't know better will be doing that anyways initially early on. The concrete jungle has resources to survive, but how do you obtain, store, and keep them is the important question. All situations are different, but If it's a national disaster and civil unrest, maybe something like an EMP or something, I wouldn't be sticking around where constant heat is required throughout an entire winter just to not freeze to death. Any building which has been left abandoned is going to shelter and insulate better than some crap tarp shack made in the woods with a fire needed all the time too. There will be little game available, everyone will be hunting 24/7 until there's nothing left almost anywhere you go.