USA Today Demonizes AR-15 After Reporting Santa Fe Gunman Used Revolver, Shotgun

[livingston]

USA Today Demonizes AR-15 After Reporting Santa Fe Gunman Used Revolver, Shotgun
USA Today demonized the AR-15 on Friday after reporting that the Santa Fe High School gunman used a revolver and a shotgun in his attack.
The paper referenced Gov. Greg Abbott’s (R) statement that the Santa Fe High School attacker used “a shotgun and .38 caliber revolver, both of which he got from his father.”

The article added, “The guns may have slowed down the gunman’s deadly rampage because they have a slower firing rate than firearms used in other recent mass shootings, such as the AR-15.”

USA Today continued, “High-powered rifles such as the AR-15 can be fired more than twice as fast as most handguns. The standard magazine for an AR-15 holds 30 rounds, allowing a shooter to continue firing uninterrupted for longer, making the weapon more lethal than other firearms.”
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USA Today Demonizes AR-15 After Reporting Santa Fe Gunman Used Revolver, Shotgun

 

[Steal2B]

HEY SNOWFLAKE GHOUL'S AT GANNETT'S "USA TODAY"

 

[S&W Fan]

Get your shotguns and revolvers when you can boys ! They fully intend to come for those too.

 

[Carlos Hathcock]

So he still managed to kill 10 people without a semi automatic and yet the libtards can't stop taking about AR's.

 

[livingston]

Get your shotguns and revolvers when you can boys ! They fully intend to come for those too.

So he still managed to kill 10 people without a semi automatic and yet the libtards can't stop taking about AR's.

Because states are making headway on banning the AR-15. They have had some success ...Next will be weapons of war .. Barrett 50 and all the weapons of war... 1911 and all its bastard offspring.. Your Glock.. Sig ... S&W...

 

[Deplorable Me]

Blowing smoke up our asses is covered by the first ammendment.

 

[Acer-m14]

was it a ar-15-shotgun LOL ..

i hear also there was 8 RO's there too but were all busy playing TSA

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

They are trying to eat an elephant one bite at a time and their strategy is working.

 

[Saltwater60]

Didn’t know you could pull an AR-15 trigger twice as fast as a handgun.

 

[Cooolone]

They were assault shotgun & assault handgun!

They were weapons of "Mass" destruction because they were used in a "Mass" murder!

Get with the program... And oh, the media is going to poll survivors of all "Mass" shootings and see their recommendations on Firearm Laws regurgitating their diatribe as gospel in what a reasonable and responsible firearm owner wants! Legislators who live in gated communities and with private security will proclaim what is acceptable defense as defined by the constitution. Lastly, they will give audience to failed and forgotten politicians who carry absolutely no weight at all as to their plan on what should be done.

LMAO... Yeah, keep it coming! We seen this BS before, it's a well worn video tape!

 

[Edwardteach72]

I dont really want to be that guy..

But....

I would take an AR-15 any day of the week (especially a "pistol" with arm brace or all out SBR) over a shotgun for legit almost any and all serious work.

AR-15 (14.5" pinned to 16", SBR, or even "Pistol") > Shotgun

 

[GOPerfect]

If these Libtards knew anything about guns, they would understand that when loaded correctly, a Shotgun can and will do more damage than an AR will ever do.

Close quarters, a shottie will always inflict more damage!

 

[Marine Cpl]

I dont really want to be that guy..

But....

I would take an AR-15 any day of the week (especially a "pistol" with arm brace or all out SBR) over a shotgun for legit almost any and all serious work.

AR-15 (14.5" pinned to 16", SBR, or even "Pistol") > Shotgun

Yep. All a shotgun is is an autoloading musket. It has limited range, limited accuracy, heavy recoil, limited capacity, large cumbersome ammo, and the inability to be surgical if the need arises. IE. A headshot to take out a perp who holding a hostage.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Yep. All a shotgun is is an autoloading musket. It has limited range, limited accuracy, heavy recoil, limited capacity, large cumbersome ammo, and the inability to be surgical if the need arises. IE. A headshot to take out a perp who holding a hostage.

I hate seeing all this shit about how oh cqb a shotgun is way better and more deadly

Like oh ok then why isnt swat all decked out with shotguns?

Shotguns have a place, a real small small place, but will almost 100% of the time be beaten out by any modern rifle, especially in an SBR or Pistol configuration.

Sorry to make you all sad but shotguns (while effective) is old thinking and not better

 

[GOPerfect]

I hate seeing all this shit about how oh cqb a shotgun is way better and more deadly

Like oh ok then why isnt swat all decked out with shotguns?

Shotguns have a place, a real small small place, but will almost 100% of the time be beaten out by any modern rifle, especially in an SBR or Pistol configuration.

Sorry to make you all sad but shotguns (while effective) is old thinking and not better

This conversation was/is in regards to school shootings. The 12 guafe shotgun, with the correct ammo would do more damage. No, not in an environment using swat or the battlefield.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I hate seeing all this shit about how oh cqb a shotgun is way better and more deadly

Like oh ok then why isnt swat all decked out with shotguns?

Shotguns have a place, a real small small place, but will almost 100% of the time be beaten out by any modern rifle, especially in an SBR or Pistol configuration.

Sorry to make you all sad but shotguns (while effective) is old thinking and not better

I'd even prefer a PCC or lever gun instead of a shotgun if I were to engage in CQB.

 

[freddy]

If these Libtards knew anything about guns, they would understand that when loaded correctly, a Shotgun can and will do more damage than an AR will ever do.

Close quarters, a shottie will always inflict more damage!

100%

 

[Marine Cpl]

This conversation was/is in regards to school shootings. The 12 guafe shotgun, with the correct ammo would do more damage. No, not in an environment using swat or the battlefield.

Depends on the shotgun. A magazine fed one loaded with slugs perhaps. If I was a running sheeple, I'd prefer if the shooter had a 5 or 8 shot Mossberg 590 than a 30 Rd AR or Ak or even a pistol. My changes of survival would be greater for various reasons. Slow reloading, barrier penetration, limited range, ect. I'd have much more of a chance to evade.

 

[Edwardteach72]

This conversation was/is in regards to school shootings. The 12 guafe shotgun, with the correct ammo would do more damage. No, not in an environment using swat or the battlefield.

So shotgun you have what 6+1 (hell we will even ghost ride a round and give you 7+1) say you are able to hit 90% so 6.3 people (we will round for you and say 6) law of average most likely 5 are done because yes 1oz of lead vs 65grains I mean duh, but maybe you have 1 that wasnt a done shot, all this and hopefully that's if you dont short stroke the gun, but oh now look you have to reload, I'll be back in 10min.

Ar-15 we will just say double tap everything (probably a better hit % because a shotgun at these ranges requires the same amount of aiming as a rifle) at 90% hits which is going to be 27 hits so 2 per person give or take you at 13.5 so 13-14, let's go with averaging here again with a 90% death rate on 13 bodies is 11.7 or 12, now you need to reload (which took less time than me typing out the reload part)

 

[Edwardteach72]

Depends on the shotgun. A magazine fed one loaded with slugs perhaps. If I was a running sheeple, I'd prefer if the shooter had a 5 or 8 shot Mossberg 590 than a 30 Rd AR or Ak or even a pistol. My changes of survival would be greater for various reasons. Slow reloading, barrier penetration, limited range, ect. I'd have much more of a chance to evade.

Dont forget recoil and chance of malfunctions (short stroking)

 

[Marine Cpl]

Dont forget recoil and chance of malfunctions (short stroking)

And his limited ammo capacity. There is only so many shells one can carry in a rig that's accessible that'll give him the ability to get to in a reasonable amount of time for a quick reload.

Shotgun shells are huge.

 

[RayKnobs]

Local democrat running for office:

 

[freddy]

Nine shells in a pistol-gripped, semi-auto, Benelli M4. The same as your neutered AR with the goofy grip, for all intents and purposes. No short stroking pump action. Fast as you can pull trigger. See video below.

Vastly more energy delivered in a full house shotshell. Close range, one or two targets - shotgun is the choice. Higher probability for definitive one-shot-stops, unlike the anemic poodle-popping .223.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Nine shells in a Benelli M4. The same as your neutered AR with the goofy grip, for all intents and purposes.

Vastly more energy delivered in a full house shotshell. Close range, one or two targets - shotgun is the choice.

Higher probability for definitive one-shot-stops, unlike the poodle-popping .223.

Who said we have 10 rds? Benelli M4 realistic semi accurate range with buckshot = no more than 25 yards. I'd have a much higher higher probability of escaping that in a crowd than someone with a rifle, PCC, or a pistol if he's good enough with the pistol that can make each shot count. In a crowd, one can easily put 25 yards between yourself and the shooter who isn't going to be running.

Sure you can be hit but spraying and praying (which buckshot is at distance) is easier to survive than accurate fire. This is why our troop's survival rate is much higher compared to Iraqi and Afghan insurgents who spray fire in hopes that Allah guides their bullets.

And if you survive that first volley and vitals aren't struck, you can put even more distance between yourself and the shooter.

Fail.

 

[ManrisFrack]

You aren't really trying to compare a pistol to a shotgun, are you Will? Even if you only hit a third of your pellets (rule of thumb is 1" spread per foot so you'll reliably land 80% to 90% at 25 yards), you've still got three holes versus one. Granted, they're half the mass but they still have 9mm velocity. Add to that the fact that the pattern is 2 ft wide and a shotgun beats a pistol every day.

Rifle, PCC (I assume we're talking PCCs in 45ACP) - sure they'll beat or equal the lethality of a shotgun if you hit with them. You gotta remember, most of these wackos aren't trained and practiced shooters. I've been hunting and shooting for 25+ years and I still don't take shots on moving targets often; they're significantly lower percentage.

You gotta remember, your point of view isn't a mass murderer's point of view. It's all about the carnage and you're gonna make more holes with a shotgun. Also, I read recently that the majority of deaths in school shootings are at execution range. Even so, we're talking about being inside a building - 25+ yard shots are going to be the exception, not the rule.

At the end of the day, none of this matters. There are many, many variables that result in the final casualty count. This wack job proved that you can execute a bunch of unarmed people without an AR-15. The guy before him proved you can do the same thing with an AR. The kooks at Columbine proved you can do it with a PCC. Virginia Tech proved that you can execute a boat load of people with a pistol. 1000 different ways to skin this particular cat but every single one will get your face and name on CNN 24/7 for the next week straight - unless someone else with a gun is close enough to end the insanity in short order.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You aren't really trying to compare a pistol to a shotgun, are you Will? Even if you only hit a third of your pellets (rule of thumb is 1" spread per foot so you'll reliably land 80% to 90% at 25 yards), you've still got three holes versus one. Granted, they're half the mass but they still have 9mm velocity. Add to that the fact that the pattern is 2 ft wide and a shotgun beats a pistol every day.

Rifle, PCC (I assume we're talking PCCs in 45ACP) - sure they'll beat or equal the lethality of a shotgun if you hit with them. You gotta remember, most of these wackos aren't trained and practiced shooters. I've been hunting and shooting for 25+ years and I still don't take shots on moving targets often; they're significantly lower percentage.

You gotta remember, your point of view isn't a mass murderer's point of view. It's all about the carnage and you're gonna make more holes with a shotgun. Also, I read recently that the majority of deaths in school shootings are at execution range. Even so, we're talking about being inside a building - 25+ yard shots are going to be the exception, not the rule.

At the end of the day, none of this matters. There are many, many variables that result in the final casualty count. This wack job proved that you can execute a bunch of unarmed people without an AR-15. The guy before him proved you can do the same thing with an AR. The kooks at Columbine proved you can do it with a PCC. Virginia Tech proved that you can execute a boat load of people with a pistol. 1000 different ways to skin this particular cat but every single one will get your face and name on CNN 24/7 for the next week straight - unless someone else with a gun is close enough to end the insanity in short order.

I disagree. Why? He only has 8 shots. Probably 20 more if that if wearing a chest rig. A guy with the weapons I've mentioned above could have hundreds. And like you said, "It's only effective at close range. " Once the shooting starts and everyone starts running, only those immediately in his vicinity are in danger. All others would be well away from his effective distance. If using another weapon, as long as they are in front of you, you can hit them.

Oh. And a .45 ACP gains no velocity from a PCC. It actually slows down and penetrates less. At least with a 9mm, you can get more penetration and get a 2 for 1 if you are lucky and aren't foolish enough to load the PCC with hollow points.

 

[livingston]

The trenchcoat-clad gunman — who police identified as student Dimitrios Pagourtzis — came into the first art classroom and began shooting. He knew students were hiding in the supply closet, Isabelle said.
“He said ‘Surprise,’ and then he started shooting, and he killed one or two people. And he shot a girl in the leg. In the closet. He shot through the window,” she said. “We blocked the doors with ceramic makers and he kept on trying to get in and he kept on shooting inside the closet.”

She called police three times over the course of 30 terrifying minutes. A police dispatcher told her to be quiet and assured her that help was on the way, she said.

The gunman kept shooting, swearing and yelling. He shot a police officer who approached, then engaged other officers in discussion, offering to surrender.

“He kept saying ‘If I come out, don’t shoot me.’ They didn’t shoot him, they just put him in handcuffs,” she said.

Pagourtzis, who students described as a quiet loner, was held Friday without bond at the Galveston County Jail, charged with capital murder and aggravated assault on a peace officer. It was unclear what motivated the attack, as authorities said it came without any obvious warning.
Students describe terror inside Santa Fe High School during deadly shooting

Like Sandy Hook There was no running ... Just stand in the doorway and take aim.

 

[livingston]

Then there is this ...from the same article.
Experts on mass shootings note that the killers study their predecessors, copy their moves and even their fashion choices. The shooter at Santa Fe High appeared to copy elements of the Columbine massacre: a black trench coat, a shotgun, explosives.

More than 30 shooters have copied the Columbine killers, and admitted they’d done so, according to Adam Lankford, a criminology professor at the University of Alabama.

“This seems like actually a more extreme version because of all of the different elements that seem to be copied, from clothing to weapons and modus operandi in terms of planting bombs,” Lankford said. “It’s a form of celebrity worship. The celebrities in this case are celebrity killers — the Columbine killers.”

 

[ManrisFrack]

I actually got you to bite on the 45 comment.

In a mall or outdoor setting with a shooter that can lead a target, I agree. The fact that we're talking about schools and the shelter in place doctrine changes the equation significantly. They're starting to realize the vulnerability of this and make changes but it's still very common. Unfortunately most schools, especially school buildings with multiple levels, have dozens of choke points that make evacuation risky as well. The firearm used in a school shooting just isn't the factor that's going to make a huge difference in overall casualty numbers.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I actually got you to bite on the 45 comment.

In a mall or outdoor setting with a shooter that can lead a target, I agree. The fact that we're talking about schools and the shelter in place doctrine changes the equation significantly. They're starting to realize the vulnerability of this and make changes but it's still very common. Unfortunately most schools, especially school buildings with multiple levels, have dozens of choke points that make evacuation risky as well. The firearm used in a school shooting just isn't the factor that's going to make a huge difference in overall casualty numbers.

Many schools aren't one sole building. Mine was multiple small one level buildings like in a college campus. The shotgun would do terrible in that situation. But regardless like Edward said, "Swat and the military don't use them for CQB. I'm not denying that getting hit with multiple pellets are lethal. What I'm saying is that the actual shooting is slow, reloading is slow, and the amount of ammo you'll have is minimal. In the same confined space of a hallway, a 30 Rd mag dump would actually kill more than 8 slow shots and a reload that takes 10 seconds or more if not more for a novice.