Why Use a Shotgun?

[Celt]

I personally prefer a handgun, but i can see why some choose other tools. Not everyone can get a pistol permit, and shotguns are fairly inexpensive. The longer sight radius makes point shooting easier under stress, especially for an untrained gun owner. Some may have concerns with over penetration from a rifle as well.

If we didnt have absurd restrictions in the state, id personally have a sbr in 556, with 28 rounds in the mag, and spares.

 

[carpediem]

If they were holding hands at over 25 yards, you'd have a point.

At 10 yards, the spread is the size of a softball.

And a softball is much larger than one 9mm round.

 

[Marine Cpl]

And a softball is much larger than one 9mm round.

Right but it's size can only hit one chest. You alluded to being able to take out all three guys with one shot due to the spread.

 

[Different Drummer]

Well, I cannot say what is better etc, etc. I will say that I am comfortable with my M590 A1 18 inch barrel for PD in the home or the MH. I also do have available a 9mm pistol and a .357 Mag. revolver. I will also say that I have never even given thought to a rifle for PD.
Why? Well I think that at PD range a shotgun will do anything a rifle will do. If I am firing on someone at relatively longer distances am I really doing the correct thing? If I like law suits perhaps I would be.
I have patterned my shotgun with my choice of ammo. I can say that it will hold a pretty tight pattern out to 20 yards with the Federal PD132-00 or PD 132-1 I have chosen. That should be fine for any PD in or around the home. I DO NOT subscribe to the spay and pray theory. Careful and deliberate aim I do subscribe to. Heaven help anyone taking a hit from the weapon and ammo I use out to 20 yards. Precision head shots? Come on, just a bit too much TV guys and Gals.
I say choose what works for the plan that you have. You do have a plan, right? Where are your family members to go and stay put, avenue of escape etc, etc. And keep reality in front of what is on the Boob Tube.

 

[Steal2B]

Why would I want a shotgun in my home? It is an effective tool and most of us live in New York State. A home defense shotgun is a viable tool to have available if needed. It is sort of like saying I don’t need a circular saw because I have reciprocating saw. For a job whose scope has not yet been defined, it would be nice to have a table saw, miter saw, hack saw, hole saw, a flush cut saw and every other option available at the job site. Likewise for a yet to be defined threat at your home, it would be nice if your home defense choices included shotguns, carbines, handguns, tactical lights, hearing protection, pepper blasters, knives, dogs, phones, and trained family members.

Every new legal weapon choice in New York seems to have some type of low ammunition capacity issues. The SAFE Act has neutered the high capacity advantages previously held by the defensive carbine and high capacity auto handguns.

The pump-action shotgun is a viable tool to grab when things go bump in the house. One of the biggest selling points for a home defense shotgun is the raw power that it lends to a trained user. Having the ability to launch a bone-crushing one ounce slug at supersonic velocities to the pelvic girdle not only inflicts massive tissue damage and cavitation, the blunt force trauma destroys the mechanical skeletal structure likely leaving a perp in a soft wet mess. A shotgun can deliver a lethal defense while better balancing over penetration risks. Within the confines of a home (where you should have a handle on your family’s potential location if behind the target), 00 or 000 buck can be thrown at an intruder with lower risk of penetrating a walls and messing up your neighbors’ life. Without training and careful ammunition choices all firearms have indisputable shortcomings. With forceful pumping to address short stroking issues and reliable ammunition a shotgun is a relatively inexpensive, immediately available, relatively reliable, and effective choice.

Anyone have a DP-12?

 

[Podmonkey]

I disagree with you disagreeing.

There is no way you are faster on moving targets with a pump-acquire-fire, pump-acquire-fire, pump-acquire-fire compared to a semi auto handgun or rifle.

Rifle is faster yes, handgun on fast moving taregets, no. Could you get the rounds out faster? I'm sure. Will they be hits? I dunno. In the situation stated a shotgun excels. I can work a pump very quickly and stay on target.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Well, I cannot say what is better etc, etc. I will say that I am comfortable with my M590 A1 18 inch barrel for PD in the home or the MH. I also do have available a 9mm pistol and a .357 Mag. revolver. I will also say that I have never even given thought to a rifle for PD.
Why? Well I think that at PD range a shotgun will do anything a rifle will do. If I am firing on someone at relatively longer distances am I really doing the correct thing? If I like law suits perhaps I would be.
I have patterned my shotgun with my choice of ammo. I can say that it will hold a pretty tight pattern out to 20 yards with the Federal PD132-00 or PD 132-1 I have chosen. That should be fine for any PD in or around the home. I DO NOT subscribe to the spay and pray theory. Careful and deliberate aim I do subscribe to. Heaven help anyone taking a hit from the weapon and ammo I use out to 20 yards. Precision head shots? Come on, just a bit too much TV guys and Gals.
I say choose what works for the plan that you have. You do have a plan, right? Where are your family members to go and stay put, avenue of escape etc, etc. And keep reality in front of what is on the Boob Tube.

Honest question. If an intruder has an arm around your kid or wife, would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a shotgun compared to a rifle, pistol calibered carbine, or a pistol?

 

[carpediem]

Right but it's size can only hit one chest. You alluded to being able to take out all three guys with one shot due to the spread.

No, I was noting the amount of lead made airborne per trigger pull. If you got a shot off center mass, you could possibly wound two at once. You would never hit all three. At ten yards with a Sig, how many hits would you get versus how many shots are you going to get? 12 .33 cal pellets is, in my opinion, better than 1 9mm round. If you are some crack shot and can pick a fly off a pile of shit in the dark at 50 feet with your 9mm, then use it. I can't and will stick to my shotgun.

 

[carpediem]

Honest question. If an intruder has an arm around your kid or wife, would you be more comfortable taking the shot with a shotgun compared to a rifle, pistol calibered carbine, or a pistol?

That's probably not a shot for a shotgun. A lot of these questions call on people's preferences, which, to you or I may not make sense. I say if you are comfortable with the firearm, use it. Whatever the "it" happens to be.

 

[Marine Cpl]

No, I was noting the amount of lead made airborne per trigger pull. If you got a shot off center mass, you could possibly wound two at once. You would never hit all three. At ten yards with a Sig, how many hits would you get versus how many shots are you going to get? 12 .33 cal pellets is, in my opinion, better than 1 9mm round. If you are some crack shot and can pick a fly off a pile of shit in the dark at 50 feet with your 9mm, then use it. I can't and will stick to my shotgun.

My point is that most self defense shootings on a home are at a range of less than ten feet.

There is no way you'll get two with one shot with a 3 or 4 inch spread.

 

[carpediem]

My point is that most self defense shootings on a home are at a range of less than ten feet.

There is no way you'll get two with one shot with a 3 or 4 inch spread.

No, maybe not. But, you could if you hit off center is what I meant. The possibility, albeit remote, is there, That will not ever happen with a 9mm pistol. Add to it an auto loading shotgun and can be quite effective. With your 9mm, even if you do hit one, how do you guarantee a kill shot? If you hit one on the chest with the 3-4 inch spread of buckshot, he will likely be pretty dead. Look, I am not going to change your mind nor are you going to change mine, but I have more than one option when it comes to HD, and would try to employ the right one for the situation. is the shotgun the be all end all for HD? Nope. But neither is the handgun.

 

[Marine Cpl]

That hostage situation is a very real situation that many don't consider. You hear something in the night. It's your kid screaming in his bedroom and you grab your shotgun.

Bad choice. Now you cannot fire at the intruder close to your child leaning over his crib.

I'm just bringing this up because many never really sit down and really think about these situations. They don't prepare for them and go by myths and what others have told them throughout the years.

Not even considering the very real and likely possibility of a hostage situation or a family member in the same vicinity the intruder is foolish after knowing about it.

 

[Greywolf224]

That'll open up a frying pan...

Now you went and done it.
My only night home defense is a loaded pump 12ga full of 3 1/2 00Buckout of my Mag express.. Hell with one eye closed and crap shit in the other, I'm gonna hit something.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Hell with one eye closed and crap shit in the other, I'm gonna hit something.

Within 3 or 4 inches at less than 10 feet.

 

[carpediem]

That hostage situation is a very real situation that many don't consider. You hear something in the night. It's your kid screaming in his bedroom and you grab your shotgun.

Bad choice. Now you cannot fire at the intruder close to your child leaning over his crib.

I'm just bringing this up because many never really sit down and really think about these situations. They don't prepare for them and go by myths and what others have told them throughout the years.

Not even considering the very real and likely possibility of a hostage situation or a family member in the same vicinity the intruder is foolish after knowing about it.

Very true. The downside is, one cannot be equipped for every possible scenario all the time. In my particular situation, with my floorplan, a hostage situation is very, very unlikely. Therefore, I do not put a lot of emphasis on preparations for that scenario. Back in the day at machinist school, the instructor had a saying, "Everything depends on everything." , so all of our potential scenarios will be different. At any rate, I have more than one route to take for HD, but the shotgun is preeminent among them.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Very true. The downside is, one cannot be equipped for every possible scenario all the time. In my particular situation, with my floorplan, a hostage situation is very, very unlikely. Therefore, I do not put a lot of emphasis on preparations for that scenario. Back in the day at machinist school, the instructor had a saying, "Everything depends on everything." , so all of our potential scenarios will be different. At any rate, I have more than one route to take for HD, but the shotgun is preeminent among them.

Well I take every possible situation into account. I won't handicapp myself because I think a certain situation has a low chance of happening.

Because if that were the case, why carry or own a firearm for self defense. The chances are low of something happening anyway.

 

[Greywolf224]

Within 3 or 4 inches at less than 10 feet.

Not understanding "Within 3 or 4 inches "...do you mean the spread pattern? If so that 3-4" spread pattern gives me a slight better chance than a .35" from my .357 sitting on my nightstand when I am waking from a dead sleep.

Again you have to use what you feel comfortable with but you need to be good with it. I think my Amish machine gun will make anyone shit their pants when I pull the trigger and that muzzle flash just about hits you at 10 feet along with the 15-20 OO buck pellets coming at you.

 

[carpediem]

Well I take every possible situation into account. I won't handicapp myself because I think a certain situation has a low chance of happening.

Because if that were the case, why carry or own a firearm for self defense. The chances are low of something happening anyway.

If you have considered all the scenarios then you are confidant that the handgun is the only HD weapon needed? How many spare mags do you carry if you jump out of bed in your underwear and have to defend yourself? Where is that spare mag? In your hand? Now you have no free hands. What happens if you don't have a spare mag and have a malfunction?

 

[dsdmmat]

A pistol is only a tool that allows you to fight to a real gun (a rifle).

There is something to say about starring down the barrel of a 12 gauge vs a 357 magnum. The pucker factor is much higher with the shotgun. There is a psychological warfare advantage to the shotgun. It is very hard for an aggressor to discount or miss seeing in your hand unlike a handgun.


Besides Joe Biden recommends one and if that isn't a reason enough to have one I don't know what is.

 

[Shadow2]

accuracy always priority but at close range all will work very well.

My choice in a free state would be, SBR, Pistol, ShotGun, a red dot on a shot gun at 10 feet will put them where they need to go. Just make sure it's sighted in for the desired distance.

You could go over a ton of scenarios and argue what ifs.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'll just leave it at this. There is a reason that Swat and the Military use Pistol Calibered Carbines and, or Rifles for CQB.

You'll never see them all equipped with shotguns except for the point man breaching a door. If they were superior, they'd all field them.

As a home defense defender, you will encounter these same threats that Swat and the Military encounter during close quarters..

You can sit down and consider them or ignore them. That the beauty of being free.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I disagree with you disagreeing.

There is no way you are faster on moving targets with a pump-acquire-fire, pump-acquire-fire, pump-acquire-fire compared to a semi auto handgun or rifle.

My shotguun is semi. It is aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire. Ny reload and repeat....

 

[Marine Cpl]

My shotguun is semi. It is aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire-aquire-fire. Ny reload and repeat....

Well that's different but even so, reloading is clumsy and capacity is limited.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

My ny reload my end up being my 12.5 inch ar pistol with brace.......or maybe my mpx. Depending on where i end up....

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Well that's different but even so, reloading is clumsy and capacity is limited.

Yup. Better not to reload a SG, better to grab another gun.

In The end, it will be very smokey and loud in my house.

 

[Shadow2]

In general the shotgun is a great all around firearm, home defense, shot for small game and birds, slugs for large game. This IMO is why they a so popular.

 

[dsdmmat]

Not too many defensive handguns can provide the energy level of a 12 gauge either.

Top Self-defense Shotgun Loads | Prep-Blog.com

These loads from Federal are all good for home defense. They are 12 gauge 2-3/4 loadings. My estimate of muzzle energy, assuming 54 grains per pellet of 00 shot, is included.

9 Pellets of 00 Buckshot:
Velocity / Muzzle energy
1140 fps / 1402 ft-lbs
1145 fps / 1414 ft-lbs
1325 fps / 1894 ft-lbs

8 Pellets of 00 Buckshot:
1145 fps / 1257 ft-lbs (LE133 00)

By comparison, Hornady offers shotshell ammo loaded with 8 pellets of 00 buckshot at 1600 fps. The muzzle energy is about 2455 ft-lbs. My opinion is that 1600 fps is overpowered for self-defense purposes.

Remington has similar loads for self-defense:

9 Pellets of 00 Buckshot:
Velocity / Muzzle energy
1325 fps / 1894 ft-lbs

8 Pellets of 00 Buckshot:
1200 fps / 1381 ft-lbs

But their 12 Pellet 00 Magnum Buckshot loading has velocity of 1290 and a muzzle energy of about 2394 ft-lbs. That’s not really a self-defense loading, unless you are fighting zombies.

Winchester has similar offerings:

9 Pellets of 00 Buckshot:
1325 fps / 1894 ft-lbs

8 Pellets of 00 Buckshot:
1145 fps / 1257 ft-lbs

Fiocchi offers a nice medium recoil SD load of 9 pellets of 00 buckshot at 1150 fps, for an estimated muzzle energy of 1427 ft-lbs.

 

[dsdmmat]

In general the shotgun is a great all around firearm, home defense, shot for small game and birds, slugs for large game. This IMO is why they a so popular.

If you can afford only one the shotgun is the best all around gun to have.

 

[Greywolf224]

I'll just leave it at this. There is a reason that Swat and the Military use Pistol Calibered Carbines and, or Rifles for CQB.

You'll never see them all equipped with shotguns except for the point man breaching a door. If they were superior, they'd all field them.

As a home defense defender, you will encounter these same threats that Swat and the Military encounter during close quarters..

You can sit down and consider them or ignore them. That the beauty of being free.

Will true what you say..but than you will never find swat or the military member acting as a lone person. They all have back up. Many eyes and many ears. You are all by your self with a a family to protect. The name of the game here is not only striking the opponent but also throwing up as large as an evil deterrence as you can.

And if you do get the chance to connect at close range, with one shot, there will be no survivors who can talk. Your call.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

There is something to say about starring down the barrel of a 12 gauge

I will tell you from experince that looking down the business end of a sawn off 12 gauge is very frightening. Only one of us lived that day.......

But that is another story........