Red Flag standoff in Mahopac

[FrankenCub]

And with more of these laws and policies that and his cohorts pass every other month or so the Men and Women who are truly suffering from PTSD will just not seek treatment or discuss it with family members because of the shit storm it opens !

Sadly, this problem isn't just NY, this is country wide.

 

[GOYABEAN]

Sadly, this problem isn't just NY, this is country wide.

Yes it's a Fucking Cancer with apparently no cure !
Not to side track post but regarding Red Flag Law's abuse.

RED FLAG INSANITY: Doctor Snitches to Authorities to Have Patient's Guns Confiscated in New Jersey - Big League Politics

Red flag laws are heinously unconstitutional.

bigleaguepolitics.com

A New Jersey man has lost access to his firearms after his own doctor reported him to authorities following a dispute.

Attorney James Maggs argued to state Superior Court Judge Paul X. Escandon during a hearing last week that he felt threatened by a phone call from Alfred Conti, whose guns were stripped due to red flag laws.

“It started out the first few seconds a normal call then quickly he became agitated,” Maggs said. “His overall demeanor I felt became threatening and I became alarmed.”

Maggs represents Dr. Matthew Kaufman and The Plastic Surgery Center of Shrewsbury, NJ. Kaufman had Conti’s firearms taken under the state’s red flag laws following a dispute between the two men. Now, Maggs and Kaufman want Conti’s guns to be seized indefinitely.

The dispute stemmed from neck surgery that was performed on Conti by Kaufman, which Conti deemed to be substandard. After the surgery failed to alleviate chronic pain in his neck, Conti complained, posted negative reviews about Kaufman on the internet, and began to start a social media campaign against Kaufman and his clinic.

Kaufman used the red flag laws in an attempt to strike back at Conti, who Kaufman has also sued for defamation. His scheme has worked like a dream against Conti, as red flag laws can be easily weaponized in civil disputes.

Law enforcement officials maintain that Conti was friendly while they were taking away his guns, and maintained his cool despite the fact that his rights were being egregiously tread upon.

“He was very cooperative in assisting us and his conversation with us,” said Dan Campanella, a Rumson police officer, during the court hearing about Conti’s demeanor.

“As far as (discussing) what had occurred, he maintained he never threatened anybody and has rightful grievances with both parties,” he added.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Definitely makes me less likely to risk my ass for legitimate domestic violence victims now that I know “patriots” will be attacking us as we work them. That’s what I learned here.

I am sorry we "civilians" don't have the resources you officers do to gather information. But we also know we cant trust everything every officer says, examples being, sheriff Isreal and Shreiff from Las Vegas, FBI and LaVoy. So pardon us if we "partiots" start to question law enforcement with the same view point we question politicians. Maybe if gov wasn't always doing the wrong thing maybe we would have a little more trust.

 

[minderasr]

I just came across and read this entire thread. My head hurts!

Also, it wasn't me.

Carrion.

 

[Airborneguy]

I am sorry we "civilians" don't have the resources you officers do to gather information. But we also know we cant trust everything every officer says, examples being, sheriff Isreal and Shreiff from Las Vegas, FBI and LaVoy. So pardon us if we "partiots" start to question law enforcement with the same view point we question politicians. Maybe if gov wasn't always doing the wrong thing maybe we would have a little more trust.

Does “questioning” include encouraging barricaded EDPs to shoot cops via online communications during the incident in your estimation? Because that’s what happened here so I can only assume since we’re talking about this incident, you either don’t know about that or you agree with it.

 

[Catskillkid]

I just came across and read this entire thread. My head hurts!

Also, it wasn't me.

Carrion.

I'm a little late to the party too as I wasn't online at all this weekend. Crazy shit and as (I believe) @Drinkthekoolaid said shows how polarized our nation is. We're a powder keg ready to blow.

 

[Catskillkid]

I'll also add the fact that you really can't trust anyone.

Did the guy lie? Was it the cops? The media? Everyone involved in this situation? What is the truth? Just like the Las Vegas shooting and Sandy Hook we'll probably never know.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Does “questioning” include encouraging barricaded EDPs to shoot cops via online communications during the incident in your estimation? Because that’s what happened here so I can only assume since we’re talking about this incident, you either don’t know about that or you agree with it.

I do not condone the shooting of police officers based on these circumstances. But those people dont represent all the "patriots" that were concerned for this guy. So way to lump everyone into a single group.

 

[Drinkthekoolaid]

I'm a little late to the party too as I wasn't online at all this weekend. Crazy shit and as (I believe) @Drinkthekoolaid said shows how polarized our nation is. We're a powder keg ready to blow.

This is completely digressing off topic but, 2020 is the last election cycle that Texas will probably be red. In 2024 it will be blue. And then it's game over.

People are starting to realize these things and regardless of what happens in 2020 and who wins it won't matter. The demonrats will have full control by 2024 and dumbass Beto publicly said their plan in selfish desperation to stay relevant (that's why they all quickly silenced him and made him irrelevant) they wanted to play it off as not their true intentions that hell yes they are coming for our guns, they really are they just don't want us to know it.

Whoever the next president is Half the country will be happy the other half angry. People are really worked up and they realize now that everything is hyper partisan. Throw in instantaneous social media and agitators and things (on either side) can quickly escalate. People on all sides are itching for a fight.

There are now so many competing narratives in every debate or conflict that it is now nearly impossible to know the actual no BS black and white truth to an event. I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Journalism is dead. Social media can be controlled and manipulated by bots and alogrhythems and getting to the truth is hard, even if the truth is made apparent some people will believe but and others won't.

Think of it from this perspective, there are still dumbasses on the left who cheered on the destruction of Ferguson and still believe the hands up don't shoot as being truth.



I don't think we're ever going to know what factually happened here and that bothers me. Events escalated very quickly based on unclear information and rumors.

This guy really might have been an unstable drunk abusive whacko craving attention. Or, he could be a victim.


I'm all for supporting people's rights but I am not sure that was the case here.


It's not encouraging at all.

 

[Airborneguy]

If this is a sign of things to come, I’m glad I chose the right side.

 

[GOPerfect]

If this is a sign of things to come, I’m glad I chose the right side.

Me, I have no idea what even the sides are anymore...

 

[Catskillkid]

This is completely digressing off topic but, 2020 is the last election cycle that Texas will probably be red. In 2024 it will be blue. And then it's game over.

People are starting to realize these things and regardless of what happens in 2020 and who wins it won't matter. The demonrats will have full control by 2024 and dumbass Beto publicly said their plan in selfish desperation to stay relevant (that's why they all quickly silenced him and made him irrelevant) they wanted to play it off as not their true intentions that hell yes they are coming for our guns, they really are they just don't want us to know it.

Whoever the next president is Half the country will be happy the other half angry. People are really worked up and they realize now that everything is hyper partisan. Throw in instantaneous social media and agitators and things (on either side) can quickly escalate. People on all sides are itching for a fight.

There are now so many competing narratives in every debate or conflict that it is now nearly impossible to know the actual no BS black and white truth to an event. I guess we shouldn't be surprised. Journalism is dead. Social media can be controlled and manipulated by bots and alogrhythems and getting to the truth is hard, even if the truth is made apparent some people will believe but and others won't.

Think of it from this perspective, there are still dumbasses on the left who cheered on the destruction of Ferguson and still believe the hands up don't shoot as being truth.



I don't think we're ever going to know what factually happened here and that bothers me. Events escalated very quickly based on unclear information and rumors.

This guy really might have been an unstable drunk abusive whacko craving attention. Or, he could be a victim.


I'm all for supporting people's rights but I am not sure that was the case here.


It's not encouraging at all.

You put succinctly into words exactly what I have been thinking. Thank you for that.

And I agree, by 2024 give or take a few elections cycles we will no longer have a country. It'll be like the Roman Republic after Augustus rose to power. We may still call it a Republic, but it will be anything but.

 

[FrankenCub]

What's bothersome is if this guy is a scumbag wife beater, those who would come to the call will be a bit gun shy after this. Now what's to happen when shit does go south? No one is going to be so trusting now, may end up walking into another scumbag situation. Or they may sit home, and home after home is flagged for BS as an excuse for confiscation.
But, the rest of the country sees that in NY of all places, gun owners did run to help another in need. Although may have been for the wrong incident.

 

[Jem45472]

This is an interesting read. Apparently the sheriff in this situation thinks that that the 1st amendment should now be considered an act of domestic terrorism.

NY Sheriff accuses LET of “domestic terrorism” for reporting on police standoff with Afghan veteran

 

[SomeSoldier]

I am shocked.

 

[Airborneguy]

They intentionally overloaded the 911 system there. Yes, that’s an act of terrorism. Also, it endangered ONLY civilians as the police have multiple channels to communicate on but citizens ONLY have 911 to summon emergency assistance.

 

[Jem45472]

They intentionally overloaded the 911 system there. Yes, that’s an act of terrorism. Also, it endangered ONLY civilians as the police have multiple channels to communicate on but citizens ONLY have 911 to summon emergency assistance.

Read the article, has nothing to do with that. He's blaming a police website for reporting the "facts"

 

[BDinPutnam]

This is an interesting read. Apparently the sheriff in this situation thinks that that the 1st amendment should now be considered an act of domestic terrorism.

NY Sheriff accuses LET of “domestic terrorism” for reporting on police standoff with Afghan veteran

I have no idea but is this website reliable? I've never heard of it before (I live under a rock, perhaps).

The quotations from Sheriff Langley contain numerous typos and poor grammar/syntax and I would be surprised if the PR office would let something like this go out to the public looking like this.

 

[Marine Cpl]

If this guy was a scumbag wife beater, why isn’t he in prison? Why let him roam free? Because as long as he doesn’t have guns, she’s safe right? He cannot kill her anymore.

That’s the issue I’m having. He should be locked up if he was a real wife beater.

 

[Acer-m14]

Yes it's a Fucking Cancer with apparently no cure !
Not to side track post but regarding Red Flag Law's abuse.

RED FLAG INSANITY: Doctor Snitches to Authorities to Have Patient's Guns Confiscated in New Jersey - Big League Politics

Red flag laws are heinously unconstitutional.

bigleaguepolitics.com

A New Jersey man has lost access to his firearms after his own doctor reported him to authorities following a dispute.

Attorney James Maggs argued to state Superior Court Judge Paul X. Escandon during a hearing last week that he felt threatened by a phone call from Alfred Conti, whose guns were stripped due to red flag laws.

“It started out the first few seconds a normal call then quickly he became agitated,” Maggs said. “His overall demeanor I felt became threatening and I became alarmed.”

Maggs represents Dr. Matthew Kaufman and The Plastic Surgery Center of Shrewsbury, NJ. Kaufman had Conti’s firearms taken under the state’s red flag laws following a dispute between the two men. Now, Maggs and Kaufman want Conti’s guns to be seized indefinitely.

The dispute stemmed from neck surgery that was performed on Conti by Kaufman, which Conti deemed to be substandard. After the surgery failed to alleviate chronic pain in his neck, Conti complained, posted negative reviews about Kaufman on the internet, and began to start a social media campaign against Kaufman and his clinic.

Kaufman used the red flag laws in an attempt to strike back at Conti, who Kaufman has also sued for defamation. His scheme has worked like a dream against Conti, as red flag laws can be easily weaponized in civil disputes.

Law enforcement officials maintain that Conti was friendly while they were taking away his guns, and maintained his cool despite the fact that his rights were being egregiously tread upon.

“He was very cooperative in assisting us and his conversation with us,” said Dan Campanella, a Rumson police officer, during the court hearing about Conti’s demeanor.

“As far as (discussing) what had occurred, he maintained he never threatened anybody and has rightful grievances with both parties,” he added.

from a article i read on this Doctor , patient indecent .. the DR checked out the patients FB page seen gun photos .,., then made the red flag ..

 

[Acer-m14]

If this guy was a scumbag wife beater, why isn’t he in prison? Why let him roam free? Because as long as he doesn’t have guns, she’s safe right? He cannot kill her anymore.

That’s the issue I’m having. He should be locked up if he was a real wife beater.

how many Live PD other news have we seen .. hubby / wife fights .. LEO comes .. ohhh dont arrest him i love him ..

"He should be locked up if he was a real wife beater"

what if the wife was beating him up ..

 

[spat]

Definitely makes me less likely to risk my ass for legitimate domestic violence victims now that I know “patriots” will be attacking us as we work them. That’s what I learned here.

Maybe the sheriff's should head that off at the pass by issuing press releases stating that they will not conduct red flag seizures ?


Seems like this wouldn't happen in the 2A sanctuary counties.

 

[spat]

If this is a sign of things to come, I’m glad I chose the right side.

You sure you know which is which ?

 

[spat]

They intentionally overloaded the 911 system there. Yes, that’s an act of terrorism. Also, it endangered ONLY civilians as the police have multiple channels to communicate on but citizens ONLY have 911 to summon emergency assistance.

Who intentionally overloaded the 911 system ?

Hundreds (maybe thousands) of people deciding on their own individually to act. None of them said "I'm going to take down the 911 system". I bet none of them thought it would even happen.

This wasn't a coordinated attack by a group with a goal, this was a side effect.

When there is a disaster and all the people calling their loved ones to find out of they are OK overload the phone network do you call that a terrorist attack ?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You should see the fake Putnam County Facebook pages that have popped up. They are quite hilarious. Apparently, he still has plenty of support and the public isn’t buying it.

 

[Robin]

This thread has far outlasted the standoff(?), but with exception of a few postings, just as confusing.
Robin

 

[Airborneguy]

When there is a disaster and all the people calling their loved ones to find out of they are OK overload the phone network do you call that a terrorist attack ?

No comparison. You're playing apologist for a bunch of fools.

 

[spat]

No comparison. You're playing apologist for a bunch of fools.

The only fools are the ones who think that the problem is the people reacting to this.

Whether this guy is a martyr or a scumbag is irrelevant. The important part is that the government in general (and the police in particular in this case) has lost the trust of the people.

The politicians have created the problem, and the police by and large perpetuate it. If neither group does anything to reverse course this will get worse.

The more the rich and powerful are allowed to flaunt the law, and the more the law appears to be arbitrary and unjust, the less respect people have for it. We are nearing a tipping point where even good people will only follow the law because they fear the consequences, and not because they respect it.

What you see in this instance is the result of hundreds of individual people deciding that they no longer trust the system. Each one of them is a potential "lone wolf terrorist". Any of them could decide that the next one of these incidents is "the last straw" and they might decide that the appropriate action is to hunt down the responsible party and dispense their own justice, because they have no faith in "the system" any longer.

You can belittle the people who reacted all you want, and you can label them whatever you want to, but the bottom line is that they are out there, and the worse things get the more of them there are.

So, basically there are 2 ways this can go, either the politicians or the police can put the brakes on the insanity, or they will eventually have to deal with a world where random people just come out of the woodwork and start killing them.

 

[Airborneguy]

When they go lone wolf, we’ll kill them. Problem solved. We don’t bend to terrorists or those who distort reality to conform to their wet dreams.

 

[Catskillkid]

The only fools are the ones who think that the problem is the people reacting to this.

Whether this guy is a martyr or a scumbag is irrelevant. The important part is that the government in general (and the police in particular in this case) has lost the trust of the people.

The politicians have created the problem, and the police by and large perpetuate it. If neither group does anything to reverse course this will get worse.

The more the rich and powerful are allowed to flaunt the law, and the more the law appears to be arbitrary and unjust, the less respect people have for it. We are nearing a tipping point where even good people will only follow the law because they fear the consequences, and not because they respect it.

What you see in this instance is the result of hundreds of individual people deciding that they no longer trust the system. Each one of them is a potential "lone wolf terrorist". Any of them could decide that the next one of these incidents is "the last straw" and they might decide that the appropriate action is to hunt down the responsible party and dispense their own justice, because they have no faith in "the system" any longer.

You can belittle the people who reacted all you want, and you can label them whatever you want to, but the bottom line is that they are out there, and the worse things get the more of them there are.

So, basically there are 2 ways this can go, either the politicians or the police can put the brakes on the insanity, or they will eventually have to deal with a world where random people just come out of the woodwork and start killing them.

As usual, a very erudite post.

We're quickly coming into a world where as you say, people are following the law only because they fear the consequences, not because they respect it. Trust in law enforcement, politicians, media, just about any institution or hierarchy is at an amazing all time low and I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

I not quite sure what to think about this particular case. Clogging 911 I don't agree with as it puts others lives at risk. I also personally would not want to go to jail for a guy who is a wife beater (if that really is the case). The problem is who do you trust? If I put out a call that I was getting red flagged and the cops were at my door to take my guns I would hope that by putting out a call folks on this forum or pro-2A folks elsewhere would come to my aid. We also don't want to get into a "boy who cried wolf" scenario as that makes us all look bad too.

These things happen so fast there's no time to fully analyze a situation to see what the best course of action is.