5.56 ammo battle! Bulk vs Premium.

[Podmonkey]

Well, shot the targets and got the pics though the results were somewhat erratic, thats on me though. Anyway heres we goes.
The setup: All groups are 5 rounds, I think it provides a more accurate picture of peformance of the round, rifle and shooter. (I only did a few 200 yard targets because it was very muddy back there and I am also very lazy.)



Conclusions: everything functioned perfectly in the DD, no stopages of any sort, the thing is a machine!
The stringing of the MEN 55gr is me, but judging from the first few shots and its performance on the 200 plate I'd say it is a bit better than the Federal/Lake City stuff, cheaper too. I pulled the first shot of the GGG 62gr, fired when the dot was not centered over the bullseye, notwithstanding I'd say its reputation is confirmed. One can tell its very high quality ammo just by looking at it, very clean brass, no dents, very even application of the primer and neck sealant. It is also slightly cheaper than the Federal/Lake City 62gr M855. See a pattern here? Based on this performance I will stocking up large quantities of the GGG. And it would seem the Black Hills 77gr is indeed superior to the IMI 77gr. At $1.10 it had damn well better be!.............. Except..... (please play the following sound clip while viewing the following pic for dramatic effect)

! That is not bad at all for me and yes that is two rounds through one hole. It was the best group of the day. Yup, gonna keep stocking the IMI stuff, its pretty damn good.
I spent literally the whole day at the range, from 10AM to 6PM. And it was fucking glorious! Had tons of fun, though I am now quite tired. So while I know there are many here that ould have gotten vastly better results, this is what you get from me. Though I must add that it has more than 12 years since I've been beyond 100yds, and I've been to 100yds only very infrequently as well, I'm pretty jazzed I was even on paper at 200! I'll continue to get better, you'll see! And I was also pretty happy being able to repeatedly nail the 200 yd plate offhand too.

 

[Podmonkey]

Oh yes, thought I'd mention: all targets were shot using perfectly NY legal 10 rounders. The DD drops the 10 rounders freely so I don't find them to be an impediment at all in use.

 

[zzrguy]

So what happen to the other 2,2260 rounds

 

[Podmonkey]

Wise ass. I shot a hell of a lot more than what I pictured. I wore the plates out man! also did more targets, warming up, verifying and adjusting zero, recreational targets. Spent some on the May Match and quite alot at the 75 yard line plinking clays too. I burned a little more than half of what I brought. Killed all the single boxed ammo and one can of the IMI and one can of the Federal 55gr. It was a big day for me. Lost a lot of time setting up and packing up while moving from station to station, the High Power range is well across from the other lines and up a hill to boot.

 

[zzrguy]

I went to the range today my the two City Idiots next to me shot about 500 rounds of 223/5.56 200 of 308 and 100 of 300 win mag and 20 of 338 Lap mag and left all their crap there when they left even after the RO told them to clean up before they leave. They even left the target boards out at the 200yd range that I took in when I was hanging new targets well at least I got all that free brass. I only shot about 100 round of 30-06 and 75 308 myself.


I wish I took a picture of the two Cidiot's targets they dam near missed the board and targets in every caliber.

 

[zzrguy]

Anytime at the range is a good time Right

 

[Podmonkey]

At least I hit all my targets with all my rounds, even if the groups aren't pretty.
And I left every station I was at cleaner than I found it. I just got my membership there and I wanted to make a good impression. Plus I belive in common courtesy. But, yeah, you should have snapped some pics of there targets, would have been funny.

 

[zzrguy]

But, yeah, you should have snapped some pics of there targets, would have been funny.

No it was quite sad they where talking how good of a shot they where and then on of them said "dude you missed you target" to me.
Which I replied "Nope that what 5 round look like when they are touching"
When the line was called they looked at my targeted and didn't udder another word to me till they left.

 

[Podmonkey]

No it was quite sad they where talking how good of a shot they where and then on of them said "dude you missed you target" to me.
Which I replied "Nope that what 5 round look like when they are touching"
When the line was called they looked at my targeted and didn't udder another word to me till they left.

You go to a range where they call your shots for you? Nice, very fancy. I had to use a spotting scope and my feet to check my targets. The inexpensive Bushnell worked very well though, I am quite pleased with it. Now I can look like I know what I'm doing, even if I really don't.

 

[Uzi]

Now I can look like I know what I'm doing, even if I really don't.

That's what really matters at the end of the day anyways.

 

[Marine Cpl]

That's pretty damned good for a 2 MOA red dot sight at 100 and 200. You weren't using a high powered scope with the target right up in your face.

 

[Podmonkey]

That's pretty damned good for a 2 MOA red dot sight at 100 and 200. You weren't using a high powered scope with the target right up in your face.

You thinks so? Some of those groups were pretty wild. I will take the leeway for the 200yd ones but I have no such excuse on the 100yd targets, I had an exceptionally positive sight picture: on those targets the dot pefectly covers the white bullseye area. All I had to do was turn the white circle red and keep it centered in the black.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You thinks so? Some of those groups were pretty wild. I will take the leeway for the 200yd ones but I have no such excuse on the 100yd targets, I had an exceptionally positive sight picture: on those targets the dot pefectly covers the white bullseye area. All I had to do was turn the white circle red and keep it centered in the black.

Actually, you suck. I was just trying to make you feel good.

In all seriousness though, you cannot even see your movement when aiming with a red dot like you can with a high powered scope. It's fine.

 

[S&W Fan]

You thinks so? Some of those groups were pretty wild. I will take the leeway for the 200yd ones but I have no such excuse on the 100yd targets, I had an exceptionally positive sight picture: on those targets the dot pefectly covers the white bullseye area. All I had to do was turn the white circle red and keep it centered in the black.

I don't think you'll have any problems taking out the zombies when it comes time. Good shootin Hoss !

 

[Eddie Gunks]

What rifle/barrel. Twist?

I would have expected bettergroups on some of the stuff.

Where are the 69 and 75 grain match stuff?. They usally run good. Spend more money. Have more fun!

 

[Podmonkey]

What rifle/barrel. Twist?

I would have expected bettergroups on some of the stuff.

Where are the 69 and 75 grain match stuff?. They usally run good. Spend more money. Have more fun!

16" 1-7 twist. I shot all my 69gr last month. I would have bought some 75gr Hornady but like I said earlier I had hit my ammo budget for this month. I can get some, and some of the Fiocchi, for next months session. I am open for suggestions. I think some of those groups will shrink as I continue to get trigger time.

 

[Marine Cpl]

16" 1-7 twist. I shot all my 69gr last month. I would have bought some 75gr Hornady but like I said earlier I had hit my ammo budget for this month. I can get some, and some of the Fiocchi, for next months session. I am open for suggestions. I think some of those groups will shrink as I continue to get trigger time.

Dollars to donuts says that if equipped with a high powered scope your groups will shrink. A red dot is only a high tech pair of iron sights. You aren't going to get cloverleafs with irons unless you are special.

 

[Uzi]

Dollars to donuts says that if equipped with a high powered scope your groups will shrink. A red dot is only a high tech pair of iron sights. You aren't going to get cloverleafs with irons unless you are special.

Not true, My teachers always told me I was special and I almost never get tight groups on target.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Who makes the barrel? That's what I really want to know. Those groups were not all that impressive. So let's blame the barrel manufacturer.

 

[Podmonkey]

Who makes the barrel? That's what I really want to know. Those groups were not all that impressive. So let's blame the barrel manufacturer.

I think @Bullet Guy is being facetious. I have never put any deficiencies in my shooting on my equipment. I have no idea why you have been busting my balls this whole thread. Post some of your own shooting then.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

I think @Bullet Guy is being facetious. I have never put any deficiencies in my shooting on my equipment. I have no idea why you have been busting my balls this whole thread. Post some of your own shooting then.

Sure. You should have asked earlier. I was at the range for the 1st time in a long time today.

I prefer to shoot steel....fast. But i can shoot paper too.

Busting your balls? Is that what you think. Hhmmm. ? Sorry. Lemme go back and see....

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Ha ha ha. Breaking your balls? I just reread my posts. If you think that is breaking balls you are gonna hate the internet.

I suggest you test better ammo. Two times on page 2.

Then i comment that i thought you should be able to get better groups outta that real expensive BH ammo. Once on page 3. I thought maybe your barrel twsit combo did not like 77 and would be better suited for 69 or maybe 75.

Then on page 3 i was suggesting yhat your barrel maybe holding you back, cause i figured a guy like you that shoots that much probably has a pretty good handle on shooting......SO IT MUST BE THE BARREL.

And you get all worked up about 4 posts i made......fucking WOW.

You wanna see breaking balls? I am having a good time with snappo in another thread......i am alomst ready to REALLY turn it up. Stay tuned.

I will post some targets shortly. But maybe you should just come out for the shoot, and see it 1st hand.......this will just save you just calling bullshit when i post em.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

@Podmonkey

Post some of your own shooting then.

I dont shoot paper often but here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards. 55gr hornady FMJBT over 24.7 of h335. Ar15. 18 inch 1:8.

And no, i dont subtract .224 from my group sizes so the appear smaller.

I will get you some fresh targets shortly.

 

[Podmonkey]

You seem to the person getting worked up, I'm just a little annoyed that whenever I ask you to expand on your suggestions I get nothing. Keep on mind that for most of the time I spent in NY I did very little shooting, just didn't have the money for it. Now I have the money but very little time. I've only really gotten back into it after I bought the AR last March. I don't see that it is the barrel holding me back, Daniel Defense makes a quality barrel and 1-7 should be ideal for 77gr I thought. I'll try some 75gr stuff next time, I've done 69gr OTMs before but not on paper at 100 yards, I'll try them again. And I also thought the Black Hills group was pretty good for a Carbine with a red dot on it. If I was doing three shot groups it may well have cloverleafed. Stay tuned till next month, Let's see if I can improve some more. I expect I will.

 

[Podmonkey]

@Podmonkey



I dont shoot paper often but here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards. 55gr hornady FMJBT over 24.7 of h335. Ar15. 18 inch 1:8.

And no, i dont subtract .224 from my group sizes so the appear smaller.

I will get you some fresh targets shortly.

View attachment 13320 View attachment 13321

Very nice shooting, handloads then?
Like I've said before I've no interest in handloading. My goal with my marksmanship is to be able to hit man sized targets out to 400yds which is the old Army standard.
And I don't call bullshit. I was raised to take a man at his word.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Ha ha ha. Breaking your balls? I just reread my posts. If you think that is breaking balls you are gonna hate the internet.

I suggest you test better ammo. Two times on page 2.

Then i comment that i thought you should be able to get better groups outta that real expensive BH ammo. Once on page 3. I thought maybe your barrel twsit combo did not like 77 and would be better suited for 69 or maybe 75.

Then on page 3 i was suggesting yhat your barrel maybe holding you back, cause i figured a guy like you that shoots that much probably has a pretty good handle on shooting......SO IT MUST BE THE BARREL.

And you get all worked up about 4 posts i made......fucking WOW.

You wanna see breaking balls? I am having a good time with snappo in another thread......i am alomst ready to REALLY turn it up. Stay tuned.

I will post some targets shortly. But maybe you should just come out for the shoot, and see it 1st hand.......this will just save you just calling bullshit when i post em.

Bullshit.

 

[ECU Pirates]

I didn't read the entire thread but were you doing accuracy testing with a red dot?

 

[Podmonkey]

I didn't read the entire thread but were you doing accuracy testing with a red dot?

Yes, for now I am using the rifle for self defense and casual target shooting. Its not set up for long range precision. 16" cold hammer forged, chrome lined bore is the milspec way to do it, and a durable, resilent construction but it is not a match grade setup. I don't need it to be. That 200 yd IMI group shows the rifle is capable of good accuracy if I do my part.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Yes, for now I am using the rifle for self defense and casual target shooting. Its not set up for long range precision. 16" cold hammer forged, chrome lined bore is the milspec way to do it, and a durable, resilent construction but it is not a match grade setup. I don't need it to be. That 200 yd IMI group shows the rifle is capable of good accuracy if I do my part.

What rest did you use? I ring steel with red dots quite a way out but have never used one to test accuracy.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Post some of your own shooting then.

Yes, for now I am using the rifle for self defense and casual target shooting. Its not set up for long range precision. 16" cold hammer forged, chrome lined bore is the milspec way to do it, and a durable, resilent construction but it is not a match grade setup. I don't need it to be. That 200 yd IMI group shows the rifle is capable of good accuracy if I do my part.

Red dot you say?

Then bravo , you are doing well. Red dots are not easy shoot groups with. I use a brt-2 reticle on my 1-6.5 bushy. Getting sub moa with it is very challenging. 1.25 or so Is a bit easier. Regular crosshairs help alot.

Get the modern munitions ammo. They use the same load i do. Great stuff.

Fwiw, DD CHF CL is holding you back from optimal accuracy.

Also, some of the heavier stuff settles down more out at 200. The groups may get smaller.

Some of the best value is ballistic advantage barrels. They shoot real nice for the money......all of their lines actually.