5.56 ammo battle! Bulk vs Premium.

[zzrguy]

You go to a range where they call your shots for you? Nice, very fancy. I had to use a spotting scope and my feet to check my targets. The inexpensive Bushnell worked very well though, I am quite pleased with it. Now I can look like I know what I'm doing, even if I really don't.

No the range has a RO who calls the line hot or a cease fire so you can change target. My cousin range in PA has cameras on the target at all point out to 600yds.

May I suggest you start reloading if your dropping 1200 a month on ammo you can get a top of the line set up and all the goodies for about that and enjoy the hobby at a new leave. I use a progressive to load 223/5.56 so you can load a lot of ammo in a hour.

 

[Podmonkey]

What rest did you use? I ring steel with red dots quite a way out but have never used one to test accuracy.

Checkout the first pic of the target post, that was the rest. It was a wooden bench with sandbags supporting the front of the rifle. rear was supported only by my shoulder.

Red dot you say?

Then bravo , you are doing well. Red dots are not easy shoot groups with. I use a brt-2 reticle on my 1-6.5 bushy. Getting sub moa with it is very challenging. 1.25 or so Is a bit easier. Regular crosshairs help alot.

Get the modern munitions ammo. They use the same load i do. Great stuff.

Fwiw, DD CHF CL is holding you back from optimal accuracy.

Also, some of the heavier stuff settles down more out at 200. The groups may get smaller.

Some of the best value is ballistic advantage barrels. They shoot real nice for the money......all of their lines actually.

I plan on ordering both 223 and 9mm from modern. proly for the next range trip, though for my SHTF stash I prefer ammo that has crimped and sealed primers and sealed case mouths with cannelured bullets. The 77gr IMI and the GGG M855 both meet these requirements while offering adequate performance at a reasonable cost.
I know a stainless steel barrel is better for accuracy, however I consider my rifle as a fighting carbine and the barrel it is equipped with is better suited for that than an SS barrel. One thing I do notice about it, and something I want to try to document next time out is that this barrel is not affected much by heat.
When I did the pictured targets I set them all up at once and just went down the row, the 200yd ones were last. I will do some 30 round groups to get an idea if my theory on this is true.

No the range has a RO who calls the line hot or a cease fire so you can change target. My cousin range in PA has cameras on the target at all point out to 600yds.

May I suggest you start reloading if your dropping 1200 a month on ammo you can get a top of the line set up and all the goodies for about that and enjoy the hobby at a new leave

I understand that handloading is the way to go for the dedicated target shooter, however I am a trucker with only a few days per month off the road and I live in a small 2nd floor apartment with all carpeted floors besides the kitchen. I just do not have the time or space for reloading equipment. Besides I am not spending $1,200 a month on ammo, this month's range outing used an accumulation of several months. My stocks are now quite depleted. I'd say I spend around $400 every other month on ammo.

Also I'd like to point out that this thread is done in the spirit of experimentation, I am trying a lot of different things to see what I like and what works for me. Its not intended as me showing off, as has been noted I as yet have little to show off about. This however shall be rectified in due time. I am regaining the skills I once had. In fact I have reached a level of competency with my shooting that I feel ready to seek training.
Thanks to all for the continued interest in this thread as I am very open to suggestions and constructive criticisms.

 

[UltraT]

Checkout the first pic of the target post, that was the rest. It was a wooden bench with sandbags supporting the front of the rifle. rear was supported only by my shoulder.



I plan on ordering both 223 and 9mm from modern. proly for the next range trip, though for my SHTF stash I prefer ammo that has crimped and sealed primers and sealed case mouths with cannelured bullets. The 77gr IMI and the GGG M855 both meet these requirements while offering adequate performance at a reasonable cost.
I know a stainless steel barrel is better for accuracy, however I consider my rifle as a fighting carbine and the barrel it is equipped with is better suited for that than an SS barrel. One thing I do notice about it, and something I want to try to document next time out is that this barrel is not affected much by heat.
When I did the pictured targets I set them all up at once and just went down the row, the 200yd ones were last. I will do some 30 round groups to get an idea if my theory on this is true.


I understand that handloading is the way to go for the dedicated target shooter, however I am a trucker with only a few days per month off the road and I live in a small 2nd floor apartment with all carpeted floors besides the kitchen. I just do not have the time or space for reloading equipment. Besides I am not spending $1,200 a month on ammo, this month's range outing used an accumulation of several months. My stocks are now quite depleted. I'd say I spend around $400 every other month on ammo.

Also I'd like to point out that this thread is done in the spirit of experimentation, I am trying a lot of different things to see what I like and what works for me. Its not intended as me showing off, as has been noted I as yet have little to show off about. This however shall be rectified in due time. I am regaing the skills I once had. In fact I have reached a level of competency with my shooting that I feel ready to seek training.
Thanks to all for the continued interest in this thread as I am very open to suggestions and constructive criticisms.

It's the red dot, man. Red dots are great, but you just can't see your small jittery movements through it while you're trying to shoot inch groups at 100 yards. Guaranteed your rifle and your higher dollar ammo can shoot tighter than that. I would say these groups are as good as you could hope for and expect with a red dot.

 

[Marine Cpl]

It's the red dot, man. Red dots are great, but you just can't see your small jittery movements through it while you're trying to shoot inch groups at 100 yards. Guaranteed your rifle and your higher dollar ammo can shoot tighter than that. I would say these groups are as good as you could hope for and expect with a red dot.

I agree. A red dot is for just hitting the black each and every time fast. He did really well considering. Better than me I'll admit. The only time I can get tight groups with a red dot is at 25 yards. After that, I can't see the movement like you said. I'll hit the black and have the shots close together but not in half or 1 inch groups. You need magnification for that.

 

[Podmonkey]

I intend to eventually put a scope on it.
I want to keep it light and close range capable though so either a Leupold VX6 or a Trijicon Accupoint 1-6 is what I'm planning on. Or if I do go with an SPR build for the NYGF lower I might leave the red dot on the DD and put something like a 2-10 on the SPR.
In anycase I think I can shrink those groups some next time. I will try to devote more time tonthe highpower range and really bear down on some groups. It will be fun trying. They have a plate way up the hill at 300 yards but I cant even see it from the bench due to its color blending in with the backdrop and. it looks like an exhausting climb up a very steep grade to get to it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I intend to eventually put a scope on it.
I want to keep it light and close range capable though so either a Leupold VX6 or a Trijicon Accupoint 1-6 is what I'm planning on. Or if I do go with an SPR build for the NYGF lower I might leave the red dot on the DD and put something like a 2-10 on the SPR.
In anycase I think I can shrink those groups some next time. I will try to devote more time tonthe highpower range and really bear down on some groups. It will be fun trying. They have a plate way up the hill at 300 yards but I cant even see it from the bench due to its color blending in with the backdrop and. it looks like an exhausting climb up a very steep grade to get to it.

Get a red dot magnifier. It isn't a scope but it'll still work. I used to have a 6X magnifier from Primary Arms that worked well on a Larue flip to side mount.

 

[Podmonkey]

Get a red dot magnifier. It isn't a scope but it'll still work. I used to have a 6X magnifier from Primary Arms that worked well on a Larue flip to side mount.

I've considering one, however such a setup would weigh more and cost more than a scope. I may still get one though. Hey I'm experimenting right? I could always sell it if I don't like it.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Primary Arms 6X Magnifier (Gen II) PA6X

 

[Marine Cpl]

I've considering one, however such a setup would weigh more and cost more than a scope. I may still get one though. Hey I'm experimenting right? I could always sell it if I don't like it.

Well you wouldn't keep it on if you don't want to. It can be a range item only. They have quick detach mounts too.

I can attest to Primary Arms quality. It served its purpose for cheap when I had it before I sold everything.

 

[Podmonkey]

Well you wouldn't keep it on if you don't want to. It can be a range item only. They have quick detach mounts too.

I can attest to Primary Arms quality. It served its purpose for cheap when I had it before I sold everything.

How bright/clear was it?

 

[Marine Cpl]

How bright/clear was it?

It wasn't thousand dollar scope quality where things look super crisp. It wasn't blurry either.

I've compared it with an Aimpoint magnifier and the Aimpoint was clearer but not by much to make a difference in seeing a target up closer.

Like I said, it served it's purpose. It brought my target up closer.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Again, let me take the time to say that I did not realize you were using the red dot. Your groups are to be expected for using a red dot on a rifle at the range. Well done and my apologies for having offended you.

I find red dots in those ranges to be excellent when shooting steel. I also find it more enjoyable personally to shoot steel because of the instant gratification. I think you'll find it fairly easy to hit a 4 inch plate at 100 using a red dot. I'm sure you could hit smaller plates, but most red dots have three or four MOA dots. Some have two. If you turn the brightness down as low as possible sometimes that helps.

@Podmonkey

 

[gun_slinger_boy]

@Podmonkey



I dont shoot paper often but here is a 3 shot group at 100 yards. 55gr hornady FMJBT over 24.7 of h335. Ar15. 18 inch 1:8.

And no, i dont subtract .224 from my group sizes so the appear smaller.

I will get you some fresh targets shortly.

View attachment 13320 View attachment 13321

Number 2 pencil or Bic? Lol I kid. I can do that with open sights using handloads (100 yards)

 

[Podmonkey]

Again, let me take the time to say that I did not realize you were using the red dot. Your groups are to be expected for using a red dot on a rifle at the range. Well done and my apologies for having offended you.

I find red dots in those ranges to be excellent when shooting steel. I also find it more enjoyable personally to shoot steel because of the instant gratification. I think you'll find it fairly easy to hit a 4 inch plate at 100 using a red dot. I'm sure you could hit smaller plates, but most red dots have three or four MOA dots. Some have two. If you turn the brightness down as low as possible sometimes that helps.

@Podmonkey

I was not offended, just slightly annoyed. Since you had previously explained your positions I have accepted your posts in the spirit of constructive criticism and discussion, which is the purpose of these forums, and though no apology is required I accept it gladly. Don't worry buddy, I still intend to do further buisness with you when the lowers get in
I will boast just a little though (cause we all need to crow a bit now and then eh?) by pointing out that there was a plate, about the size of my targets, hanging next to the 200 yard target backers, and I was able to repeatedly ring it....... offhand. supported I was killing that poor thing. I want to pitch in to get some proper AR500 plates there. Maybe a gong at the 300 yard point.
Oh and my red dot is indeed a 2 moa dot.
When dimmed its seems capable of precision shooting, lack of magnification notwithstanding.

 

[Podmonkey]

I've been thinking, now would be a good time to get that CZ 527 carbine I've been wanting. That would be a great little 200 yd target rifle I think. Put a nice and simple 3x9 on it, maybe a Nikon. That would be a blast at my range.

 

[Frankly]

Eddie/Bullet Guy knows his stuff and can back it up, I've shot with him. He isn't a superhero but he makes his hits. He's just exuberant sometimes because he's really into it.

Sounds like you had fun "testing" even though it wasn't strictly scientific it still showed you which way to go. I did something similar but not as intensive, simply shooting a few boxes of everything from steel cased Wolf to $1/per target rounds and seeing what the limits were.

You can benchrest the rifle locked down on a super solid rig on a calm day and find out the absolute best but if you're shooting offhand in the real world you also have to stand up and shoot offhand to know what works best.

 

[Podmonkey]

Eddie/Bullet Guy knows his stuff and can back it up, I've shot with him. He isn't a superhero but he makes his hits. He's just exuberant sometimes because he's really into it.

Sounds like you had fun "testing" even though it wasn't strictly scientific it still showed you which way to go. I did something similar but not as intensive, simply shooting a few boxes of everything from steel cased Wolf to $1/per target rounds and seeing what the limits were.

You can benchrest the rifle locked down on a super solid rig on a calm day and find out the absolute best but if you're shooting offhand in the real world you also have to stand up and shoot offhand to know what works best.

Yup, I see this as an ongoing project. I am definitely going to checkout the ammo source @bulletguy mentioned. I'm going to pickup a few other brands for next month and also devote more time to the 100-200 yard range for next month, see if I can do a little better. I would like to get the groups more consistent. Like that last 200 yard IMI group, which if I measure correctly is just a hair under MOA.