Ammo background checks to begin mid-September?

[Beerman]

Here’s some interesting info direct from the statute:


SECTION 400.03
Sellers of ammunition
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 4, TITLE W, ARTICLE 400


§ 400.03 Sellers of ammunition.
…
5. If the statewide license and record database notifies the licensee
or seller that the information available to the database does not
demonstrate that the receipt of ammunition by such other person would
violate 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or state law, and the licensee transfers
ammunition to such other person, the licensee shall indicate to the
database that such transaction has been completed at which point a
record of such transaction shall be created which shall be accessible by
the division of state police and maintained for no longer than one year
from point of purchase, which shall not be incorporated into the
database established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article or the
registry established pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00
of this article. The division of state police may share such information
with a local law enforcement agency. Evidence of the purchase of
ammunition is not sufficient to establish probable cause to believe that
the purchaser has committed a crime absent other information tending to
prove the commission of a crime. Records assembled or accessed pursuant
to this section shall not be subject to disclosure pursuant to article
six of the public officers law. This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from
conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police
determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to
technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the
dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the
discretion of such superintendent.”

This would appear that the registry info is not retainable after one year, and the info contained in it (ie. who purchased what and how much) is not sufficient grounds to initiate any type of criminal investigation. Further, this section looks to me like if the system is down then the ammo BGC is suspended. But the “superintendent of state police” has to decide that the system is down. Very interesting.

 

[CaliberPlus]

Currently we have a NICS that went to Research. I can find no info on the NY site. I called NICS and confirmed still "Research" status. He thought there should be a way to check on the NY site, LOL. I did ask if the NY system goes down if the NICS checks an be picked back up by feds, he did not know.

I suppose I will have to call.

 

[Beerman]

Currently we have a NICS that went to Research. I can find no info on the NY site. I called NICS and confirmed still "Research" status. He thought there should be a way to check on the NY site, LOL. I did ask if the NY system goes down if the NICS checks an be picked back up by feds, he did not know.

I suppose I will have to call.

If it’s down, supposedly the BGCs are no longer required until the system is verified as operational again.

 

[2WheelGnnr]

"You seem to be acting suspiciously. I'll need to search the vehicle."

Happens all the time.

I do not consent to searches thank you.......

 

[thisIslandEarth]

Loophole in new NY ammo background check system identified.

Under the LooneyToons act of 1968 any person entering a firearms store who identifies as a FUDD may purchase ammunition in NY without a background check provided they meet 3 of the following criteria. It should be pointed out to FFL's that just because the said purchaser is muttering "It's wabbit season!!" is not sufficient cause to dismiss a background check. 3 of the criteria must include:

a derby hat, small squinty eyes, big reddish nose, a high collar around his neck, a green long sleeve shirt, green pants, and a bald circle-like human head.

The NYSP has provided the following images to assist the proper identification:

 

[thisIslandEarth]

I should also mention NYSP have established the FUDD Hot Line at 1-800-WTF-FUCK for addition information. Phone hours are from 4:55pm - 4:46pm. There is a $10 fee.

 

[Beerman]

Loophole in new NY ammo background check system identified.

Under the LooneyToons act of 1968 any person entering a firearms store who identifies as a FUDD may purchase ammunition in NY without a background check provided they meet 3 of the following criteria. It should be pointed out to FFL's that just because the said purchaser is muttering "It's wabbit season!!" is not sufficient cause to dismiss a background check. 3 of the criteria must include:

a derby hat, small squinty eyes, big reddish nose, a high collar around his neck, a green long sleeve shirt, green pants, and a bald circle-like human head.

The NYSP has provided the following images to assist the proper identification:

View attachment 209848

That guy has huge eyes, a hat on (can’t tell if he’s bald) a peanut-shaped head, and he’s dressed in brown. Must be an ENCON officer.

 

[maverick52]

It's a shitshow already. Let the games begin!

 

[Russ Woody]

Sounds like everything is going according to plan.

Well, "their" plan anyways.



-

Yup, and I'll bet they could give a shit less if it ever works

 

[lrick]

Here’s some interesting info direct from the statute:


SECTION 400.03
Sellers of ammunition
Penal (PEN) CHAPTER 40, PART 4, TITLE W, ARTICLE 400


§ 400.03 Sellers of ammunition.
…
5. If the statewide license and record database notifies the licensee
or seller that the information available to the database does not
demonstrate that the receipt of ammunition by such other person would
violate 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or state law, and the licensee transfers
ammunition to such other person, the licensee shall indicate to the
database that such transaction has been completed at which point a
record of such transaction shall be created which shall be accessible by
the division of state police and maintained for no longer than one year
from point of purchase, which shall not be incorporated into the
database established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article or the
registry established pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00
of this article. The division of state police may share such information
with a local law enforcement agency. Evidence of the purchase of
ammunition is not sufficient to establish probable cause to believe that
the purchaser has committed a crime absent other information tending to
prove the commission of a crime. Records assembled or accessed pursuant
to this section shall not be subject to disclosure pursuant to article
six of the public officers law. This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from
conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police
determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to
technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the
dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the
discretion of such superintendent.”

This would appear that the registry info is not retainable after one year, and the info contained in it (ie. who purchased what and how much) is not sufficient grounds to initiate any type of criminal investigation. Further, this section looks to me like if the system is down then the ammo BGC is suspended. But the “superintendent of state police” has to decide that the system is down. Very interesting.

I'm not sure I would read it that way, that the BGC requirement itself is suspended. I think the exception applies to the requirement to enter the transaction into the dealers own internal records. Which really should go without saying that if the BGC didn't go through you don't need to enter because there should have been no transaction to enter. I know that doesn't make sense, but this "law' is so poorly written, I think it's meant to trip people up.

Section 400.02 which precedes this section, states:

2.....a seller of ammunition as defined in
subdivision twenty-four of section 265.00 of this chapter shall not
transfer any ammunition to any other person who is not a dealer in
firearms as defined in subdivision nine of such section 265.00 or a
seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of section
265.00 of this chapter, unless:

(a) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee or seller
contacts the statewide license and record database and provides the
database with information sufficient to identify such dealer or seller
transferee based on information on the transferee's identification
document as defined in paragraph (c) of this subdivision, as well as the
amount, caliber, manufacturer's name and serial number, if any, of such
ammunition;

(b) the licensee or seller is provided with a unique identification
number; and

(c) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee by
examining a valid state identification document of the transferee issued
by the department of motor vehicles or if the transferee is not a
resident of the state of New York, a valid identification document
issued by the transferee's state or country of residence containing a
photograph of the transferee.
[END]

There are no exceptions listed in this section that allow for transfer without BGC, regardless of cause.

I highly doubt NYShithole is going to give anyone a hall pass, even if they are the ones who fucked it up. They aren't going to allow a fair exception in their BS law, did you forget how they jammed us up with the whole NICS delay fiasco?

 

[VietnamEraVet]

Sure does. Happened to me once many years ago. I still told them I wanted to see a warrant. They ended up letting me go. May not happen all the time, maybe they do end up breaking your balls enough to instill fear and give in.

Even if they did get a warrant.....what did ya do wrong? Its ammo, its not illegal to transport.

The NYS Purple Tie Squad tried that shit with me years back at the entrance to the Peace Bridge at a "motorcycle safety checkpoint". Wanted me to consent to them searching my saddle bags. I asked him for his search warrant, and what crime was I suspected of committing. He gave me the old "If you don't have anything to hide BS". It was a stare down, until he sent me on my way after a while, saddlebags unsearched.

 

[CaliberPlus]

If it’s down, supposedly the BGCs are no longer required until the system is verified as operational again.

Not for a gun.

 

[Saltwater60]

They ask about a search because most people say yes. Don’t be most people and say no sir I don’t not consent to a search of anything. Sorry can we assume sir?

 

[thisIslandEarth]

Just a video I recorded for you guys of me AFTER I took the FORCED 16 hour NYS Pistol Permit Training class:

 

[Beerman]

Not for a gun.

Correct. What I posted was specifically from the ammunition BGC portion. As has been mentioned, it is of dubious contention whether or not it is true.

 

[Bustedknees]

I got a call from my son today. I've been after him to start buying ammo when he sees it. So today was apparently the day he chose to start buying! He told he registered with GunBroker and was ready to buy 300 rounds of 9mm for something like $150. I then let him know about Target Sports and a few others and the going case prices and free shipping. Then I told him to go back to GB and search out ammo for his 270wsm. I let him know that wouldn't be cheap,, but buy it anyways. Then lastly, I told him about what happened on the morning of 9-13-23. He's ordering this Friday and we'll see how things work out.

 

[garyv350]

I got a call from my son today. I've been after him to start buying ammo when he sees it. So today was apparently the day he chose to start buying! He told he registered with GunBroker and was ready to buy 300 rounds of 9mm for something like $150. I then let him know about Target Sports and a few others and the going case prices and free shipping. Then I told him to go back to GB and search out ammo for his 270wsm. I let him know that wouldn't be cheap,, but buy it anyways. Then lastly, I told him about what happened on the morning of 9-13-23. He's ordering this Friday and we'll see how things work out.

Ouch. 9mm here is $250.00 for 1000 rounds.

 

[Hochulsucks1234]

Gun Shop Owner Talks About New Gun, Ammunition Regulations in New York

There's another gun regulation for owners and gun shops to navigate. And this time, the state threw ammunition into the mix.

www.wktv.com

"Guns can't be sold in the same area as ammunition. They have to be separate. So, are they separate locations? Are they separate buildings? Are they separate storefronts? And this is putting a very big overload on the mom-and-pop gun owners and gun businesses," Assistant Oneida County Pistol Licensing Officer Dan Sullivan, said

Is this something else they snuck in these new laws? Sullivan is usually on top of things.

 

[TonyRossi]

I’m a licensed FFL dealer and I have both my FFL and NYS dealers license. I ran an ammo background check on myself tonight (7:54 pm) to see how the system works. I am currently delayed . How is that even possible ? Is this a joke ? Think about that ..I can literally order cases of ammo from my distributors and have them shipped directly to my business but I get delayed to buy one box of 9mm ammo !?
This is disgusting

 

[PA Guns & Ammo]

None of that shit here in Pennsylvania. I'm waiting for the asshole fudds to cry wolf. Then I can tell them that no one needs a box of 20 rounds of ammo to kill a deer.

 

[FP1201]

If it’s down, supposedly the BGCs are no longer required until the system is verified as operational again.

Yea, I'm going to call bullshit on that one, as I'm quite sure that finding no check done when one was required during an ATF Audit (and I HAVE seen them go back at least five years) would get you a choice of surrendering your FFL or being charged and taken to Court.

 

[FP1201]

I’m a licensed FFL dealer and I have both my FFL and NYS dealers license. I ran an ammo background check on myself tonight (7:54 pm) to see how the system works. I am currently delayed . How is that even possible ? Is this a joke ? Think about that ..I can literally order cases of ammo from my distributors and have them shipped directly to my business but I get delayed to buy one box of 9mm ammo !?
This is disgusting

Listen, I have and have had for decades a C&R, a UPIN, CCW from NY, FL, and PA, a "Trusted Persons" (Retired DoD ID) and a half dozen other Licenses and I'm "delayed" every fucking time I have a NICS Check done... always come back Proceed, but who the hell knows with the dick-wads in Albany controlling everything.

 

[lrick]

Can't share directly, but here's a screenshot from the Firing Pin's FB page on filing a complaint with NYS Troopers.

The Firing Pin, LLC | Bergen NY

The Firing Pin, LLC, Bergen, New York. 29,286 likes · 563 talking about this · 7,093 were here. Western NY's finest public indoor range, retail firearm, and classroom training center.

www.facebook.com

 

[FP1201]

If it’s down, supposedly the BGCs are no longer required until the system is verified as operational again.

Re-reading it, you are partially correct in that the Ammunition Checks are waived, but still I wonder what measures the Dealer has to take in recording the transaction?

This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from
conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police
determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to
technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the
dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the
discretion of such superintendent.”

 

[lrick]

Re-reading it, you are partially correct in that the Ammunition Checks are waived, but still I wonder what measures the Dealer has to take in recording the transaction?

This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from
conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police
determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to
technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the
dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the
discretion of such superintendent.”

I think you were correct the first time calling BS.

You have to read the condition set forth at the beginning of the Section.

5. If the statewide license and record database notifies the licensee or seller that the information available to the database does not demonstrate that the receipt of ammunition by such other person would violate 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or state law, and the licensee transfers ammunition to such other person, the licensee shall indicate to the database that such transaction has been completed at which point a record of such transaction shall be created...

Condition>action>exception

I believe the exception may apply to the FFLs own record entry, not the BGC process itself.

This thing is written like shit and I wouldn't doubt it's to jam people up.

I wouldn't want to see people get hurt making assumptions.

 

[ManualF150]

Can't share directly, but here's a screenshot from the Firing Pin's FB page on filing a complaint with NYS Troopers.

The Firing Pin, LLC | Bergen NY

The Firing Pin, LLC, Bergen, New York. 29,286 likes · 563 talking about this · 7,093 were here. Western NY's finest public indoor range, retail firearm, and classroom training center.

www.facebook.com

View attachment 209864

Thanks for posting this. I don't use FB, and this is helpful.

My plan is to electronically fill it in, and then print off 1000 copies of it. Put it in a box, and mail it.

 

[Vinson57]

Mr Criminal now has to send someone to buy ammo. He send his squeeze to go to the store to get some 9mm but she is nit so smart and comes back with some 10mm as she got confused. Then they get screwed on no refunds on ammo.

However they get even more screwed when address used for the ammo is also in the parolee felon database where there should be no guns.

Then cross reference to pistol permits, no 9mm at that address.

I expect some action out of the system.

 

[TEOTWAWKI inc.]

The first good lawsuit should be from people that passed a BGC for a gun yesterday (or as recently as possible), but get denied by the new BGC for ammo today. What would the states response to that be?

 

[lrick]

The first good lawsuit should be from people that passed a BGC for a gun yesterday (or as recently as possible), but get denied by the new BGC for ammo today. What would the states response to that be?

The same as it is for having a vote that is not counted? A big FU?

I think they'd be ok with us having guns we can't use. Isn't that the whole purpose to CCIA?

Next would be to limit our free speech so we couldn't even run round around yelling BANG! BANG!

 

[Acer-m14]

NYS Firearms Association Federal Lawsuit Filed Today!

https://www.newyorkstatefirearmsassociation.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/2023.09.13-NYSFA-v-Nigrelli-Complaint.pdf?fbclid=IwAR3omTf4ra6XmF1fsqxAMnArrK-afhNo_nXDUZvcWfS6uAHGIfZAa-hLrs8