Buying Ammo Online and Having It Shipped to Your House
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ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Between the two of us, you are the one who can't put a coherent sentence together. You don't know what the law is and you come on to this forum asking questions that have already been answered ad nauseam (for illiterate assholes like you, that means at great length) and whats more, you insult us. Fuck the hell off you waste of space piece of shit TROLL!
Corgi, did you not see the sign?
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Shipping to NY is not the issue, the requirement for the book is in law and it remains for face to face sales?
No one has the answer and no one has come forth with anyone or anything intelligent on my original post about the book?
The book? Lets get on it?
No one has the answer and no one has come forth with anyone or anything intelligent on my original post about the book?
The book? Lets get on it?
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This thread isn't about face to face sales.
It's about shipping to your house....which for trolls like you is under a bridge.
You mean a black binder, as used for C&R purchases but for ammo? First I've heard of any such thing. The only thing required for any form of ammo sales is money. And as supply of ammo of course.
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The book is listed here:
Record Book and this was to start in 2014 so how did it get rescinded?
Having this book and using it was the background check system in place waiting
2. Any seller of ammunition or dealer in firearms shall keep a record
book approved as to form by the superintendent of state police. In the
record book shall be entered at the time of every transaction involving
ammunition the date, name, age, occupation and residence of any person
from whom ammunition is received or to whom ammunition is delivered, and
the amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, or if none,
any other distinguishing number or identification mark on such
ammunition. The record book shall be maintained on the premises
mentioned and described in the license and shall be open at all
reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to
his or her special duties, or police officer. Any record produced
pursuant to this section and any transmission thereof to any government
agency shall not be considered a public record for purposes of article
six of the public officers law.
? No answers here from anyone? Only attacks? Shows your sense and intelligence to to them negative posters. You know who you are?
Record Book and this was to start in 2014 so how did it get rescinded?
Having this book and using it was the background check system in place waiting
2. Any seller of ammunition or dealer in firearms shall keep a record
book approved as to form by the superintendent of state police. In the
record book shall be entered at the time of every transaction involving
ammunition the date, name, age, occupation and residence of any person
from whom ammunition is received or to whom ammunition is delivered, and
the amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, or if none,
any other distinguishing number or identification mark on such
ammunition. The record book shall be maintained on the premises
mentioned and described in the license and shall be open at all
reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to
his or her special duties, or police officer. Any record produced
pursuant to this section and any transmission thereof to any government
agency shall not be considered a public record for purposes of article
six of the public officers law.
? No answers here from anyone? Only attacks? Shows your sense and intelligence to to them negative posters. You know who you are?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
He's referencing this when he means "THE BOOK"which has no basis on online ordering.
S 400.03 Sellers of ammunition
1. A seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of
section 265.00 of this chapter shall register with the superintendent of
state police in a manner provided by the superintendent. Any dealer in
firearms that is validly licensed pursuant to section 400.00 of this
article shall not be required to complete such registration.
2. Any seller of ammunition or dealer in firearms shall keep a record
book approved as to form by the superintendent of state police. In the
record book shall be entered at the time of every transaction involving
ammunition the date, name, age, occupation and residence of any person
from whom ammunition is received or to whom ammunition is delivered, and
the amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, or if none,
any other distinguishing number or identification mark on such
ammunition. The record book shall be maintained on the premises
mentioned and described in the license and shall be open at all
reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to
his or her special duties, or police officer. Any record produced
pursuant to this section and any transmission thereof to any government
agency shall not be considered a public record for purposes of article
six of the public officers law.
3. No later than thirty days after the superintendent of the state
police certifies that the statewide license and record database
established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article is operational
for the purposes of this section, a dealer in firearms licensed pursuant
to section 400.00 of this article, a seller of ammunition as defined in
subdivision twenty-four of section 265.00 of this chapter shall not
transfer any ammunition to any other person who is not a dealer in
firearms as defined in subdivision nine of such section 265.00 or a
seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of section
265.00 of this chapter, unless:
(a) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee or seller
contacts the statewide license and record database and provides the
database with information sufficient to identify such dealer or seller,
transferee based on information on the transferee's identification
document as defined in paragraph (c) of this subdivision, as well as the
amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, if any, of such
ammunition;
(b) the system provides the licensee or seller with a unique
identification number; and
(c) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee by
examining a valid state identification document of the transferee issued
by the department of motor vehicles or if the transferee is not a
resident of the state of New York, a valid identification document
issued by the transferee's state or country of residence containing a
photograph of the transferee.
4. If the database determines that the purchaser of ammunition is
eligible to possess ammunition pursuant to state and federal laws, the
system shall:
(a) assign a unique identification number to the transfer; and
(b) provide the licensee or seller with the number.
5. If the statewide license and record database notifies the licensee
or seller that the information available to the database does not
demonstrate that the receipt of ammunition by such other person would
violate 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or state law, and the licensee transfers
ammunition to such other person, the licensee shall indicate to the
database that such transaction has been completed at which point a
record of such transaction shall be created which shall be accessible by
the division of state police and maintained for no longer than one year
from point of purchase, which shall not be incorporated into the
database established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article or the
registry established pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00
of this article. The division of state police may share such information
with a local law enforcement agency. Evidence of the purchase of
ammunition is not sufficient to establish probable cause to believe that
the purchaser has committed a crime absent other information tending to
prove the commission of a crime. Records assembled or accessed pursuant
to this section shall not be subject to disclosure pursuant to article
six of the public officers law. This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from
conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police
determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to
technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the
dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the
discretion of such superintendent.
6. If the superintendent of state police certifies that background
checks of ammunition purchasers may be conducted through the national
instant criminal background check system, use of that system by a dealer
or seller shall be sufficient to satisfy subdivisions four and five of
this section and such checks shall be conducted through such system,
provided that a record of such transaction shall be forwarded to the
state police in a form determined by the superintendent.
7. No commercial transfer of ammunition shall take place unless a
licensed dealer in firearms or registered seller of ammunition acts as
an intermediary between the transferor and the ultimate transferee of
the ammunition for the purposes of contacting the statewide license and
record database pursuant to this section. Such transfer between the
dealer or seller, and transferee must occur in person.
8. A seller of ammunition who fails to register pursuant to this
section and sells ammunition, for a first offense, shall be guilty of a
violation and subject to the fine of one thousand dollars and for a
second offense, shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
A seller of ammunition that fails to keep any record required pursuant
to this section, for a first offense shall be guilty of a violation and
subject to a fine of five hundred dollars, and for a second offense
shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor, and the registration of such
seller shall be revoked.
S 400.03 Sellers of ammunition
1. A seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of
section 265.00 of this chapter shall register with the superintendent of
state police in a manner provided by the superintendent. Any dealer in
firearms that is validly licensed pursuant to section 400.00 of this
article shall not be required to complete such registration.
2. Any seller of ammunition or dealer in firearms shall keep a record
book approved as to form by the superintendent of state police. In the
record book shall be entered at the time of every transaction involving
ammunition the date, name, age, occupation and residence of any person
from whom ammunition is received or to whom ammunition is delivered, and
the amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, or if none,
any other distinguishing number or identification mark on such
ammunition. The record book shall be maintained on the premises
mentioned and described in the license and shall be open at all
reasonable hours for inspection by any peace officer, acting pursuant to
his or her special duties, or police officer. Any record produced
pursuant to this section and any transmission thereof to any government
agency shall not be considered a public record for purposes of article
six of the public officers law.
3. No later than thirty days after the superintendent of the state
police certifies that the statewide license and record database
established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article is operational
for the purposes of this section, a dealer in firearms licensed pursuant
to section 400.00 of this article, a seller of ammunition as defined in
subdivision twenty-four of section 265.00 of this chapter shall not
transfer any ammunition to any other person who is not a dealer in
firearms as defined in subdivision nine of such section 265.00 or a
seller of ammunition as defined in subdivision twenty-four of section
265.00 of this chapter, unless:
(a) before the completion of the transfer, the licensee or seller
contacts the statewide license and record database and provides the
database with information sufficient to identify such dealer or seller,
transferee based on information on the transferee's identification
document as defined in paragraph (c) of this subdivision, as well as the
amount, calibre, manufacturer's name and serial number, if any, of such
ammunition;
(b) the system provides the licensee or seller with a unique
identification number; and
(c) the transferor has verified the identity of the transferee by
examining a valid state identification document of the transferee issued
by the department of motor vehicles or if the transferee is not a
resident of the state of New York, a valid identification document
issued by the transferee's state or country of residence containing a
photograph of the transferee.
4. If the database determines that the purchaser of ammunition is
eligible to possess ammunition pursuant to state and federal laws, the
system shall:
(a) assign a unique identification number to the transfer; and
(b) provide the licensee or seller with the number.
5. If the statewide license and record database notifies the licensee
or seller that the information available to the database does not
demonstrate that the receipt of ammunition by such other person would
violate 18 U.S.C. 922(g) or state law, and the licensee transfers
ammunition to such other person, the licensee shall indicate to the
database that such transaction has been completed at which point a
record of such transaction shall be created which shall be accessible by
the division of state police and maintained for no longer than one year
from point of purchase, which shall not be incorporated into the
database established pursuant to section 400.02 of this article or the
registry established pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00
of this article. The division of state police may share such information
with a local law enforcement agency. Evidence of the purchase of
ammunition is not sufficient to establish probable cause to believe that
the purchaser has committed a crime absent other information tending to
prove the commission of a crime. Records assembled or accessed pursuant
to this section shall not be subject to disclosure pursuant to article
six of the public officers law. This requirement of this section shall
not apply (i) if a background check cannot be completed because the
system is not operational as determined by the superintendent of state
police, or where it cannot be accessed by the practitioner due to a
temporary technological or electrical failure, as set forth in
regulation, or (ii) a dealer or seller has been granted a waiver from
conducting such background check if the superintendent of state police
determines that such dealer is incapable of such check due to
technological limitations that are not reasonably within the control of
the dealer, or other exceptional circumstances demonstrated by the
dealer, pursuant to a process established in regulation, and at the
discretion of such superintendent.
6. If the superintendent of state police certifies that background
checks of ammunition purchasers may be conducted through the national
instant criminal background check system, use of that system by a dealer
or seller shall be sufficient to satisfy subdivisions four and five of
this section and such checks shall be conducted through such system,
provided that a record of such transaction shall be forwarded to the
state police in a form determined by the superintendent.
7. No commercial transfer of ammunition shall take place unless a
licensed dealer in firearms or registered seller of ammunition acts as
an intermediary between the transferor and the ultimate transferee of
the ammunition for the purposes of contacting the statewide license and
record database pursuant to this section. Such transfer between the
dealer or seller, and transferee must occur in person.
8. A seller of ammunition who fails to register pursuant to this
section and sells ammunition, for a first offense, shall be guilty of a
violation and subject to the fine of one thousand dollars and for a
second offense, shall be guilty of a class A misdemeanor.
A seller of ammunition that fails to keep any record required pursuant
to this section, for a first offense shall be guilty of a violation and
subject to a fine of five hundred dollars, and for a second offense
shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor, and the registration of such
seller shall be revoked.
See now this is a case of unsafe being impossible to decipher. To me "seller of ammunition" means a retailer or dealer and not some dude making a casual face to face sale.
I can't read any of the above without my eyes immediately glazing over.
I can't read any of the above without my eyes immediately glazing over.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Sorry pal. Those rules only pertain to sellers of ammunition in NY State. They do not pertain to dealers out of state or the person buying from the dealer out of state.
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Doc8404
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I'm right.
Lock it up
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Disassociation as you offer on this post has no real meaning to our true problem.
My post offers up to how we got here and why we got what we got.
No new information on the book?
You show nothing but more ignorance?
But what's your point?
Haven't we established the "book" is irrelevant for out of state purchase anyways?
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Its not, its the start of this issue if you been following the problem since 2014
Did you understand how UNSAFE justifies "face to face" right now? They have no way at all.
It said face to face was required and I am showing it not as the law got broken.
The book was a way to have a current background system in place to eliminate other than face to face sales until they effected an electronic system.
We do not have so all sales are still open.
I'm not any ones whipping boy. Not laying down any time soon.
The book and what it meant in UN-SAFE, if any asshole needs a clue once more? Get it?
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Remain glazed and stupid is my motto. Easy for many. The free world tricks your ass into falseness. You need to see a doctor and fast.
And unsafe says your job (an ammunition seller) starts 30 days after NYSP says EBGC is operational. This is an important fact I have not pushed.
So until this date, nothing is law as now such as reads 400.03
This has not happened yet and means we are free to buy anywhere until some future date
The UNSAFE 400.03 book negated this this but all excuse this fact and ignore.
My post is how did we get around the book requirement? No answer at all.
Except out of state shippers such as Midway and Natchez and more. They say no and no one cares.
Anyone wiser now?
I get what you're saying. I think we can all agree that it is legal to receive a shipment of ammo to your house from an out of state company though, right? Is everyone on the same page?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
This guy isn't making sense when he puts words to paper. He has a problem organizing his thoughts on paper or screen and when put down and nobody understands, he gets frustrated and insults people.
What I think he's trying to say is that the book takes the place of the electronic system. But what he fails to understand is that the book is supposed to be along with the electronic system.
Section 1 says that the seller has to register with the state.
Section 2 says that the seller must maintain a book to record keeping.
Section 3 says that 30 days after the electronic system is in place, a seller cannot sell ammo to anyone unless they are a dealer or a purchaser who passes a background check.
Section 4 through 6 describe the process of the background check.
Section 7 says that face to face is only required for the purposes of a background check.
This is what he fails to understand. No book is needed if no background check is required. If no background check is required, no face to face is required.
Section 8 lists the penalties for the seller only if he fails to register or keep records.
This only pertains to NY dealers and sellers. NY cannot force a seller or dealer from Nebraska for example to abide by their laws.
Even if the database goes into effect, it doesn't affect online sales since there is no penalty for an out of state dealer or a purchaser. NY has no jurisdiction on an out of state retailer or and has no listed penalties for a NYS resident who gets ammo by other means from outside NYS.
This law is for NY Dealers or Sellers only.
What I think he's trying to say is that the book takes the place of the electronic system. But what he fails to understand is that the book is supposed to be along with the electronic system.
Section 1 says that the seller has to register with the state.
Section 2 says that the seller must maintain a book to record keeping.
Section 3 says that 30 days after the electronic system is in place, a seller cannot sell ammo to anyone unless they are a dealer or a purchaser who passes a background check.
Section 4 through 6 describe the process of the background check.
Section 7 says that face to face is only required for the purposes of a background check.
This is what he fails to understand. No book is needed if no background check is required. If no background check is required, no face to face is required.
Section 8 lists the penalties for the seller only if he fails to register or keep records.
This only pertains to NY dealers and sellers. NY cannot force a seller or dealer from Nebraska for example to abide by their laws.
Even if the database goes into effect, it doesn't affect online sales since there is no penalty for an out of state dealer or a purchaser. NY has no jurisdiction on an out of state retailer or and has no listed penalties for a NYS resident who gets ammo by other means from outside NYS.
This law is for NY Dealers or Sellers only.
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unSAFE no longer applies to me, I moved to PA, so I don't really care what it says anymore. The only thing I care about is its repeal.
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
This was best intetrepttiom so far, but strechest it and does not cover why we cannot do mail order sales. This hows how bad 40003 gets mis-constusted
Which part currently restricts mail order sales?
Part 7 only applies if there is a system for background checks.
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Line 2 is where you fail. In no where there is any reason the book as described first is pushed out of the way for any reason. Not there?
Section two? Where is the book and why not? All ammo sales recorded, this post is fake news as empty.
Why did this poster ignore section two? Not smart of criminal action?
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
And Part 8 lists the penalties for dealers or sellers who fail to register or keep records. It does not pertain to dealers or sellers that NYS has no jurisdiction over.
I don't know what the answer is for the book part, it's not clear in the code. But isn't it irrelevant for mail order purchases from out of state companies? That's the real question.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
What are you talking about? It lists the process they must follow.
The whole section pertains to NY dealers or Sellers. Part 1 says that they must register. Part 2 says they have to keep records (THE BOOK ). Part 3 to 6 lists the procedures they have to follow and Part 7 says that face to face is only for the purposes of the background check.
Since there is no background check, a NY dealer who conducts business with a buyer face to face at a gun store for example, has to follow none of it. No records or no calling in to an electronic system.
Why do you think there isn't a gun store in NYS keeping records?
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No offense to anyone but this whole discusssion is worthless. What have you been doing since unSAFE passed and what will this discussion change or solve? Arguing accomplishes nothing and as a new member you don't do yourself any favors by insulting people right off the bat.
These conversations have been had ad nauseam. If you're not willing to read though the many threads here, at nyfirearms or at AR15.com to form your own opinion or see what consensus is than it's unlikely that anyone here can help you.
These conversations have been had ad nauseam. If you're not willing to read though the many threads here, at nyfirearms or at AR15.com to form your own opinion or see what consensus is than it's unlikely that anyone here can help you.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Arguing is fun.