Buying Ammo Online and Having It Shipped to Your House
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@Willjr75 From the tests I've seen all the HST 9mm loads have a small variance in performance. The 147 standard pressure load penetrates slightly deeper than the other loads, excepting the new 150gr micro load. TN9 outdoors has demonstrated over numerous test and brands that +p gives slightly greater expansion at the cost of slightly decreased penetration. The greater impact velocity opens the petals faster and to a greater extent than standard pressure loads and the increased drag decelerate the bullet faster. Again in the HST line the differences are not all that much. It's the consistency of the the HST I value most.
Anyways, switching to the 147 standard pressure load is for logistical reasons, I will run the one round in both guns. I belive the 147 has the edge over the 124 standard pressure load. I like the 124gr +p best overall but that load has excessive blast and flash in the Shield.
Anyways, switching to the 147 standard pressure load is for logistical reasons, I will run the one round in both guns. I belive the 147 has the edge over the 124 standard pressure load. I like the 124gr +p best overall but that load has excessive blast and flash in the Shield.
How did I find this Forum ?
Well, I'm not sure. I'm on the Internet way too much. I suppose I just stumbled across it as part as the many searches I run.
What I can say for sure is no one recommended it to me.
Which is something I will attempt to fix. I have already begun to recommend nygunforum.com to the folks I'm in touch with.
I'd like to see a lot more NES Members here - all I'm met are really good people, and they would be an asset.
Celt
.338 Win Mag
All of us that live in the ban States really need to stick together as our voices will be stronger that way. The more patriots on these forums the better.
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Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
He must have done a search for "gun owners in accursed states" or "persecuted law-abiding citizens" or "citizens being illegally unconstitutionally f**ked by their governor."
freddy
.308 Win
From the Buffalo Bore website.
"I often get emails asking if we are shipping ammo to some of the more anti-gun states such as MA, IL, NY, CA, HI, etc.
First, it should be noted that no matter how unfair, unconstitutional, (read illegal) or draconian any state, city or county decides to be with their anti-gun laws; it becomes their problem/responsibility to enforce the laws they pass. It is not our responsibility to enforce their laws. In fact, It is impossible for us to know what gun related laws exist (they may change often) in every local across our nation, so we focus only on Federal laws and make certain we are in compliance with those………the only federal law we know of regarding the sale of ammunition, is that you must be at least 18 years old to buy ammo and ammo cannot be shipped via US Postal Service…it has to be shipped via ground service (no air) private carriers such as UPS or Fed-Ex. We use UPS.
UPS has no restrictions regarding shipping ammo to the states mentioned above. (Except HI, which would require air freight, so we simply do not sell to HI) We regularly ship ammo to customers in all those sates, except HI. Until or unless UPS becomes restricted by law, we/they will continue to ship ammo to those states. If you are a resident of any of those states and are worried about being in compliance with their anti-gun laws, it becomes your responsibility as a resident, to comply with the laws where you reside or are ordering from and having the ammo shipped to…..we frankly disagree with the legality of laws that infringe on our 2nd amendment rights and as mentioned above, if any governmental body within the US wants to pass unconstitutional laws, we are not going to help them enforce such…..they will have to figure out how to enforce laws they passed.
A few years ago, as of this writing, (01-21-16) CA passed an illegal law that forbid their residents from ordering ammo on-line and having it shipped into CA. As a result, every ammo maker I know of, that sells on-line, stopped filling CA ammo orders—EXCEPT US! Word spread quickly among shooters in CA and our internet orders in CA went up several hundred percent….I did not take this position to make money! I took that position in order not to become an enforcement arm for CA illegal laws. If CA legislators wanted to pass an illegal law, enforcing it is their problem, not mine. Within a year, due to an NRA backed law suit, that law was declared unconstitutional (DUH!) by the CA state Supreme Court and was struck down.
Feel free to order ammo from us, regardless of your local, except HI and AK, which require air freight. UPS will bring it to your door. Any enforcement of illegal/unfair anti-gun laws are the responsibility of that state that passed them…..it may be illegal for you as a resident of one of those states, to order ammo on-line, but that too is not our responsibility to enforce. You must shoulder the responsibility of your choices in ordering ammo from such states or locals. We as a nation of states, counties and cities have passed so many laws, that most of them are unknown or misunderstood. "
"I often get emails asking if we are shipping ammo to some of the more anti-gun states such as MA, IL, NY, CA, HI, etc.
First, it should be noted that no matter how unfair, unconstitutional, (read illegal) or draconian any state, city or county decides to be with their anti-gun laws; it becomes their problem/responsibility to enforce the laws they pass. It is not our responsibility to enforce their laws. In fact, It is impossible for us to know what gun related laws exist (they may change often) in every local across our nation, so we focus only on Federal laws and make certain we are in compliance with those………the only federal law we know of regarding the sale of ammunition, is that you must be at least 18 years old to buy ammo and ammo cannot be shipped via US Postal Service…it has to be shipped via ground service (no air) private carriers such as UPS or Fed-Ex. We use UPS.
UPS has no restrictions regarding shipping ammo to the states mentioned above. (Except HI, which would require air freight, so we simply do not sell to HI) We regularly ship ammo to customers in all those sates, except HI. Until or unless UPS becomes restricted by law, we/they will continue to ship ammo to those states. If you are a resident of any of those states and are worried about being in compliance with their anti-gun laws, it becomes your responsibility as a resident, to comply with the laws where you reside or are ordering from and having the ammo shipped to…..we frankly disagree with the legality of laws that infringe on our 2nd amendment rights and as mentioned above, if any governmental body within the US wants to pass unconstitutional laws, we are not going to help them enforce such…..they will have to figure out how to enforce laws they passed.
A few years ago, as of this writing, (01-21-16) CA passed an illegal law that forbid their residents from ordering ammo on-line and having it shipped into CA. As a result, every ammo maker I know of, that sells on-line, stopped filling CA ammo orders—EXCEPT US! Word spread quickly among shooters in CA and our internet orders in CA went up several hundred percent….I did not take this position to make money! I took that position in order not to become an enforcement arm for CA illegal laws. If CA legislators wanted to pass an illegal law, enforcing it is their problem, not mine. Within a year, due to an NRA backed law suit, that law was declared unconstitutional (DUH!) by the CA state Supreme Court and was struck down.
Feel free to order ammo from us, regardless of your local, except HI and AK, which require air freight. UPS will bring it to your door. Any enforcement of illegal/unfair anti-gun laws are the responsibility of that state that passed them…..it may be illegal for you as a resident of one of those states, to order ammo on-line, but that too is not our responsibility to enforce. You must shoulder the responsibility of your choices in ordering ammo from such states or locals. We as a nation of states, counties and cities have passed so many laws, that most of them are unknown or misunderstood. "
S&W Fan
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Well ..A ..fucking MEN to that !!!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Cool. I thought I was getting over because they just weren't aware yet.
Federal HST is outstanding ammo. TN9 does a great job. The Luckygunner Data is extensive (sorry if someone has already posted it in this thread (http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/), and they use pistols more akin to what concealed carry would use, not 5" barrel "service" weapons. They also test .380, 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP.
I use 9mm HST 147 gr +P in my XD sub-compact.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Lucky gunner uses clear ballistics which is not accurate at all. Those penetration numbers are inflated. Tnoutdoors9 does make a good test but he only tests 1 shot. Shootingthebull410 tests 5 shots and makes an average. You'd be surprised at the deviation from 1 shot to the next.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
But Lucky won't send you no HST, no FMJ, BVD's amigo. No flowers, nothing, you fickle fair weather friend.
Robin
Robin
I carry Federal HST 124gr in all my 9mm's. I would also not hesitate to carry Corbon DPX 115+P as well
In .40 I carry Federal HST 165gr
In .357 Sig I carry Corbon DPX 125 gr
In my Shield .45 I will most likely settle on Corbon DPX 185+P or Golden Saber 185+P
Glock 43 9mm
Weather 42*, Humidity 86%, Pressure 29.8inHg
Winter wear with one layer of medium weight nylon outer polyester fill, one layer of polartec 200gr and one layer of T-shirt Hanes cotton.
Federal HST 124gr standard penetrated to 15", expansion .628", second round 18 1/2" penetration and .614 expansion
Federal HST 147gr standard pressure penetrated to 16" expanded .614", second round penetrated to 18 1/2" and expanded .595"
Underwood Xtreme defense 90gr+P penetrated to 17 1/2" no expansion
These Xtreme defense rounds in .45 and 9mm are extremely consistent as all of them penetrate to 17-17 1/2"
So I took out my 380 Underwood 90gr Xtreme Penetrator and out of my LCP II it penetrated 17 1/2"!
Corbon DPX 115 +P penetrated 16" with beautiful expansion of .685". Both .45 DPX 185+P and 115+P were very consistent in all media's
Critical defense penetrated to 11 1/2" and expanded to .485"
I will continue to carry the 124gr HST standard pressure as it has been the only HST in 9mm to continuously expand and penetrate. It does seem that you will be well protected in virtually any of these rounds.
I also tested 9mm out of a Glock 43 with 4 layers of Denim
HST 124gr standard pressure was the clear and decisive winner by a land slide
5 out of 5 penetrated to 18 1/2" and all expanded beautifully
Hst 147 and 147+P also clogged with denim and some expanded and some passed through 20" block
Speer gold dots 124+P did not perform well. Only 1 expanded and penetrated to 14". the 4 others did not expand and passed through 20"
I did two .357 sig out of a G33
Corbon 125gr DPX pentrated 14 1/2" and expanded nicely
Underwood 125gr gold dot ROCKED the block. It hit so hard the block lifted up.
Penetrated 16" and expanded beautifully to .60"
Sig .357 Glock 33 test as well
Underwood 125gr speer gold dot penetrated 19 1/2", expanded .584
Corbon DPX 125gr penetrated 17", expanded to .680
Glock 23 .40 cal
Weather 42*, Humidity 92%, Pressure 29.8inHg
FBI clear ballistics gel 16x6x6 block with Thug wear LOL,
Medium weight nylon shell polyester fill vest, medium weight 100% cotton hoodie and then 100% cotton t-shirt in front of the gel
Federal HST 165gr penetrated 16", expanded .668"
Federal HST 180gr penetrated 14", expanded .761
Federal HST 155gr penetrated 14 1/2", expanded .655"
Winchester PDX1 165gr penetrated 15", expanded .694
Speer 155gr gold dot penetrated 15", expanded .622
All the .40 ammo did very well. I have been carrying the Federal HST 165gr for years. In .357 the Underwood overpenetrated 1 1/2". The Corbon DPX continues to be very consistent in regards to expansion.
In .40 I carry Federal HST 165gr
In .357 Sig I carry Corbon DPX 125 gr
In my Shield .45 I will most likely settle on Corbon DPX 185+P or Golden Saber 185+P
Glock 43 9mm
Weather 42*, Humidity 86%, Pressure 29.8inHg
Winter wear with one layer of medium weight nylon outer polyester fill, one layer of polartec 200gr and one layer of T-shirt Hanes cotton.
Federal HST 124gr standard penetrated to 15", expansion .628", second round 18 1/2" penetration and .614 expansion
Federal HST 147gr standard pressure penetrated to 16" expanded .614", second round penetrated to 18 1/2" and expanded .595"
Underwood Xtreme defense 90gr+P penetrated to 17 1/2" no expansion
These Xtreme defense rounds in .45 and 9mm are extremely consistent as all of them penetrate to 17-17 1/2"
So I took out my 380 Underwood 90gr Xtreme Penetrator and out of my LCP II it penetrated 17 1/2"!
Corbon DPX 115 +P penetrated 16" with beautiful expansion of .685". Both .45 DPX 185+P and 115+P were very consistent in all media's
Critical defense penetrated to 11 1/2" and expanded to .485"
I will continue to carry the 124gr HST standard pressure as it has been the only HST in 9mm to continuously expand and penetrate. It does seem that you will be well protected in virtually any of these rounds.
I also tested 9mm out of a Glock 43 with 4 layers of Denim
HST 124gr standard pressure was the clear and decisive winner by a land slide
5 out of 5 penetrated to 18 1/2" and all expanded beautifully
Hst 147 and 147+P also clogged with denim and some expanded and some passed through 20" block
Speer gold dots 124+P did not perform well. Only 1 expanded and penetrated to 14". the 4 others did not expand and passed through 20"
I did two .357 sig out of a G33
Corbon 125gr DPX pentrated 14 1/2" and expanded nicely
Underwood 125gr gold dot ROCKED the block. It hit so hard the block lifted up.
Penetrated 16" and expanded beautifully to .60"
Sig .357 Glock 33 test as well
Underwood 125gr speer gold dot penetrated 19 1/2", expanded .584
Corbon DPX 125gr penetrated 17", expanded to .680
Glock 23 .40 cal
Weather 42*, Humidity 92%, Pressure 29.8inHg
FBI clear ballistics gel 16x6x6 block with Thug wear LOL,
Medium weight nylon shell polyester fill vest, medium weight 100% cotton hoodie and then 100% cotton t-shirt in front of the gel
Federal HST 165gr penetrated 16", expanded .668"
Federal HST 180gr penetrated 14", expanded .761
Federal HST 155gr penetrated 14 1/2", expanded .655"
Winchester PDX1 165gr penetrated 15", expanded .694
Speer 155gr gold dot penetrated 15", expanded .622
All the .40 ammo did very well. I have been carrying the Federal HST 165gr for years. In .357 the Underwood overpenetrated 1 1/2". The Corbon DPX continues to be very consistent in regards to expansion.
I'll check that out. Thanks, you can never have enough info.
Interesting letter from Buffalo Bore. What's that I always used to say about FFL's enforcing far more gun laws than any cop could ever imagine or hope for?
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I appreciate Buffalo Bores' stand, just wish they had a wider variety of selection and ammo made from brass, copper and lead in stead of gold and silver.
Robin
Robin
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
This is the Lucky Gunner I was referring to, LuckyGunner.com ,One of the last to ship to us, but caved!
Robin
Robin
.357Sig Underwood!!!
Lmao, love the reaction at the range ; )
Accuracy though, that's all I worry about, cause .38" ~ .60" hole only matters if it's in the right place after all. Everything else is just noise to me.
Practice practice practice, waste that ammo... Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Don't matter how much expansion a bullet makes in a wall when it misses the target.
Lmao, love the reaction at the range ; )
Accuracy though, that's all I worry about, cause .38" ~ .60" hole only matters if it's in the right place after all. Everything else is just noise to me.
Practice practice practice, waste that ammo... Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. Don't matter how much expansion a bullet makes in a wall when it misses the target.
I shoot from da hip
.40 S&W
well, is it?
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
NO...just no...stop it....no more...no more...no more....well, is it?
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........
I shoot from da hip
.40 S&W
sorry I couldn't help myself lol
There needs to he a sticky we can link to for occasions like this.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I don't believe it, nor a sticky.
Robin
Robin
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
I won't believe it, nor a sticky.
Robin
Robin
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Damn!!!! A trifecta, a hat trick, an infield tripple!!!!!! wonder how I did that?
Robin
Robin
Magnus
6.5 Creedmoor
Reading this thread was a good way to waste 4 hours this morning.
Phazer
.450/400 Nitro Ex
It's official then....you are a masochist.
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
UNSAFE had in writing in the language of the law, a background requirement for immediate use to apply while we waited for the electronic system but somehow it was waived? They simply had stated that a book would record all sales until we got the electronic system.
It clearly states there will be a book and the ammo seller will check your ID and write it down in the book along with what was bought. This would of been very slow but was a system, prescribed by law and should of went into effect on 15 January 2014 and this is how all non-face to face methods would of ended on this day.
We would be doing this now and if we had started in 2014 as the law says, we would of made great news far and wide on the folly of this and maybe Astorino would of won the election as all who went to the store would of been standing in line with the book guy and getting quit pissed off.
Someone waived the book recording requirement and this was probably breaking the law as not allowed unless the legislature amends the law to do so. The law states the electronic system will replace but only 30 days after its certified operational. It did not say the idea of having an electronic system, makes us not have to use the book. So was it the NYSP and did the NYSP incorrectly assume to waive the book requirement and all went along with it? The dems did so to quiet the controversy down and win the election by keeping FUDDs totally unaware. We let it pass for no more than stupid convenience as we want our "boolits". Who amended this paragraph to cancel use of the book? It was the linch pin for the state being able to prove they have a face to face system in place to use and prohibit mail order sales and its not there?
S400.03 - go back and look.
I've got two more points but will not mix them in as this the first major screw up.
It clearly states there will be a book and the ammo seller will check your ID and write it down in the book along with what was bought. This would of been very slow but was a system, prescribed by law and should of went into effect on 15 January 2014 and this is how all non-face to face methods would of ended on this day.
We would be doing this now and if we had started in 2014 as the law says, we would of made great news far and wide on the folly of this and maybe Astorino would of won the election as all who went to the store would of been standing in line with the book guy and getting quit pissed off.
Someone waived the book recording requirement and this was probably breaking the law as not allowed unless the legislature amends the law to do so. The law states the electronic system will replace but only 30 days after its certified operational. It did not say the idea of having an electronic system, makes us not have to use the book. So was it the NYSP and did the NYSP incorrectly assume to waive the book requirement and all went along with it? The dems did so to quiet the controversy down and win the election by keeping FUDDs totally unaware. We let it pass for no more than stupid convenience as we want our "boolits". Who amended this paragraph to cancel use of the book? It was the linch pin for the state being able to prove they have a face to face system in place to use and prohibit mail order sales and its not there?
S400.03 - go back and look.
I've got two more points but will not mix them in as this the first major screw up.
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Since no one came back, why can TSUSA send ammo to NY? They are same as me and realize the system is broke and the law is not there to prevent.
Why because snider boy thinks there is?
However why does SCOPE, NYSRPA and NRA believe the same as him?
I went to a store on 15 January 2014 to find out what would happen to buy ammo and nothing did. I got ammo and no BGC. Same as today in 2017.
Why because snider boy thinks there is?
However why does SCOPE, NYSRPA and NRA believe the same as him?
I went to a store on 15 January 2014 to find out what would happen to buy ammo and nothing did. I got ammo and no BGC. Same as today in 2017.
ArmedCorgi
.475 A&M Magnum
Because there is a Memorandum of Understanding, effectively staying the ammo bgc and database, and NYS CANNOT dictate terms of interstate commerce. Only the Feds can do that.
Vinson57
.450/400 Nitro Ex
My post was on the book and requirement to have and this is in the law and that should have been followed. The MOU came years later and two NYS senators thought this to be the holy grail but was unsupported by SCOPE and NYSRPA. They say was worthless. But is it? I've not sent that discussion yet on why S400.03 is bogus.