Conspiracy

[freddy]

So what's the problem you have with Holdover than other than being a little man troll and posting lizards after everything he says?

I have no problem with holdover personally. In truth, I admire his conviction and persistance. I merely want to present an alternative choice to the groupthink that predominates here. That is, the automatic assumption every single mass shooting is a covered up conspiracy by the deep state. And by default every shooting is intentionally and grossly misrepresented by law enforcement. This is not always true. But many will take any youtube video as certain proof that it is.

 

[Darth]

They aren't going to answer your specific question on what you were wrong on. Don't bother.

Beyond the 4 times it has already been answered of course.

Darth on the other hand is a weird one. He knows that government and media is full of shit or could be full of shit but for some reason takes issue when someone talks about it. I don't get that line of thinking. Why would anyone have issue with someone else saying X may not have happened as they are saying it happened because Y doesn't make sense.

No, what I have issue with is people presenting easily debunked facts or outright lies as "evidence of a conspiracy."

Have you ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? Well, when you pretend that EVERYTHING that happens is a government conspiracy, the actual, real bad shit that they do, loses punch.

You aren't being the arbiter of truth that you think you are. You are in fact hurting the cause.

I am a huge fan of skepticism, as you know. It used to be "be skeptical of the maaaan man." And that's how we found out about a lot of the bad shit they do. Well, what they did, was take it way too far and now it's much more poignant to be skeptical of the "skeptics" now.

 

[freddy]

Beyond the 4 times it has already been answered of course.


No, what I have issue with is people presenting easily debunked facts or outright lies as "evidence of a conspiracy."

Have you ever heard of the boy that cried wolf? Well, when you pretend that EVERYTHING that happens is a government conspiracy, the actual, real bad shit that they do, loses punch.

You aren't being the arbiter of truth that you think you are. You are in fact hurting the cause.

100%

 

[freddy]

If there was solid, irrefutable, undeniable evidence that sandy hook was a hoax, for example, then I would stand on the rooftop and scream about it. But in the absence of real proof we only make ourselves look like wonky lunatic gun nuts. We will alienate (lose) those voters on the fence that could be swayed to become true 2a supporters. These people won't want to be associated with holocaust deniers (or the like).

In pictures: US gun-blessing ceremony

That's me fourth from the left....

Goperfect standing proud...

 

[E the massive]

If there was solid, irrefutable, undeniable evidence that sandy hook was a hoax, for example, then I would stand on the rooftop and scream about it. But in the absence of real proof we only make ourselves look like wonky lunatic gun nuts.

With that thinking we would still be using asbestos in hair dryers.

 

[freddy]

With that thinking we would still be using asbestos in hair dryers.

I don't get it. Are you saying there isn't solid, irrefutable, undeniable evidence that asbestos causes cancer?

 

[E the massive]

I don't get it. Are you saying there isn't solid, irrefutable, undeniable evidence that asbestos causes cancer?

Not at first, not until a shit ton of people got sick and died. It was covered up by the asbestos companies.

 

[freddy]

Not at first, not until a shit ton of people got sick and died. It was covered up by the asbestos companies.

Ah, now I understand. Yes, your point is a good one. Eventually the evidence (real undeniable proof - not a youtube video) came out. So we stopped using asbestos in hairdryes.

I for one think the whole innocent until proven guilty thing is a legitimate method. Imperfect - though it is.

 

[Marine Cpl]

More of the same from you two. Nothing. You guys are masters at repeating the same nothing into many words.

 

[freddy]

More of the same from you two. Nothing. You guys are masters at repeating the same nothing into many words.

Ha! "Nothing" is right!
That word perfectly surmises the evidence you present for sandy hook being a hoax... nothing!

 

[Darth]

More of the same from you two. Nothing. You guys are masters at repeating the same nothing into many words.

You understand that ignoring everything and saying something completely made up, as you conspiracy theorists are known for, like "NOTHING" is why we are in this predicament right?

 

[Darth]

With that thinking we would still be using asbestos in hair dryers.

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Ha! "Nothing" is right! That word perfectly surmises the evidence for sandy hook being a hoax.

So what is it that we should do? Tell me. Just take it that a 5.56 made a shotgun blast in the door? Just accept the fact that the coroner was pulling bullets out of little kid's bodies? Accept that the school didn't get around to having handicapped parking and other things that weren't up to code? Just eat it right?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You understand that ignoring everything and saying something completely made up, as you conspiracy theorists are known for, like "NOTHING" is why we are in this predicament right?

I don't understand what you are specifically referring to? Can a 5.56 bullet make a shotgun blast?

 

[E the massive]

That makes absolutely no sense.

Not to you.

 

[Darth]

Not to you.

Point rejected.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Id love to know what Freddie thinks happened at sandy hook based on the facts .

You have the facts? Did you find them on the internet?

 

[Darth]

I don't understand what you are specifically referring to? Can a 5.56 bullet make a shotgun blast?

That cleared things up.

 

[freddy]

...
Just take it that a 5.56 made a shotgun blast in the door?
Just accept the fact that the coroner was pulling bullets out of little kid's bodies?
Accept that the school didn't get around to having handicapped parking and other things that weren't up to code?

These are good questions Will. No doubt. But qualifying as evidence to prove (or warrant the accusation of) a massive conspiracy and coverup? Not in my opinion.

For the record, it is possible sandy hook was a hoax. Not likely, but possible. At this point there is little to nothing to demonstrate the hypothesis.

 

[ECU Pirates]

Question for Will. Were kids killed at sandy hook?

 

[Darth]

These are good questions Will. No doubt. But qualifying as evidence to prove (or earrant the accusation of) a massive conspiracy and coverup? Not in my opinion.

I think he deleted some of it when I quoted him, but to his points, I've not seen the evidence for those claims, but as mentioned earlier "I can't explain this" brings us just as much closer to "MASSIVE GOVERNMENT COVER UP" as it does "SPACE ALIENS PLANTED THE EVIDENCE."

"I don not know" != "Therefor god, the government, space the grassy knoll, space aliens..."

"I do not know" = "I do not know."

 

[Darth]

And btw, I even have questions about Sandy Hook.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Question for Will. Were kids killed at sandy hook?

No.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I think he deleted some of it when I quoted him, but to his points, I've not seen the evidence for those claims, but as mentioned earlier "I can't explain this" brings us just as much closer to "MASSIVE GOVERNMENT COVER UP" as it does "SPACE ALIENS PLANTED THE EVIDENCE."

"I don not know" != "Therefor god, the government, space the grassy knoll, space aliens..."

"I do not know" = "I do not know."

Deleted?

 

[freddy]

No.

Please Will, identify which self-defense shootings (CCW or home invasion) are hoaxes/conspiracies/cover ups.

 

[ECU Pirates]

No.

Did the school exist?

 

[Marine Cpl]

Did the school exist?

The building did.

 

[freddy]

The building did.

Would you please describe in a paragraph or two what actually happened at the building called sandy hook elementary school on or about Dec 14, 2012?

 

[Darth]

Deleted?

What I quoted was not the same thing he did.

 

[holdover]

List of casualties
Killed:

• Perpetrator's mother
  • Nancy Lanza, 52, (shot at home)
• School personnel
  • Rachel D'Avino, 29, teacher's aide[19]
  • Dawn Hochsprung, 47, principal
  • Anne Marie Murphy, 52, teacher's aide[20]
  • Lauren Rousseau, 30, teacher
  • Mary Sherlach, 56, school psychologist
  • Victoria Leigh Soto, 27, teacher
• Students
  • Charlotte Bacon, 6[21]
  • Daniel Barden, 7
  • Olivia Engel, 6
  • Josephine Gay, 7
  • Dylan Hockley, 6
  • Madeleine Hsu, 6
  • Catherine Hubbard, 6
  • Chase Kowalski, 7
  • Jesse Lewis, 6
  • Ana Márquez-Greene, 6
  • James Mattioli, 6
  • Grace McDonnell, 7
  • Emilie Parker, 6
  • Jack Pinto, 6
  • Noah Pozner, 6
  • Caroline Previdi, 6[22]
  • Jessica Rekos, 6
  • Avielle Richman, 6
  • Benjamin Wheeler, 6
  • Allison Wyatt, 6
• Perpetrator
  • Adam Lanza, 20 (suicide)

Wounded:

• Natalie Hammond, 40, lead teacher
• Deborah Pisani[23]

Sources:[24][25][26]

OK we have a starting point. Let me clear something up from the start. I never said it was a hoax. My claim is that we do not know what happened at Sandy hook

Now, you believe that Laza committed the crime as you stated. You have based this on the facts as you know them. You are so sure of this fact that you never bothered to question it.

Let me point out some facts for you.

Adam Lanza was never identified as the shooter by any witness

Adam Lanzas drivers license does not exist nor does his picture from his license

Crime scene photos of Lanza have never been released

Autopsy report and photos have never been released.

Lanza's finger prints were never taken from the weapon or found in the school.

So when you say it's a fact that Lanza was the shooter .i say, the evidence for it is suspect.

You would have a hard time in court to get a conviction based on the evidence alone. Your evidence of his guilt stems from what you were told only. There is almost no physical evidence he was even at the scene.

My point isn't that lanza did or didn't do it
My point is thatyou have come to a conclusion without considering the facts of the case, then scold me when I question it .

This fact is only a tiny tip of an iceberg of facts about the case which I'm sure you don't know of.