Maybe one was just looking in the wrong direction?
Former NYPD officer upset..
- Thread starter ECU Pirates
- Start date
I'm really glad they stopped cops from getting free Coffee that really pissed me off!!!
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Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I am.
Arguing that we should be required to have permits and "not" having on is a "special privilege" is - ready? - Retarded!
The full academy must be successfully completed before a cop gets their equivalent of a permit, the shield. Training which while maybe not always maintained, at least at the time, goes far above and beyond what is required in NY for a citizen to get their permit.
Maybe you guys have a point though. Maybe citizens should be required to complete full on police academies before getting a handgun permit in NY. You'll get the law, various physical training and shooting courses all over a 6 or so month period. At that point, you get a permit and the right to carry a gun. Oh, and only the ones approved by the department who's academy you complete FYI, not any gun.
This is quite franky the dumbest anti-cop argument of all.
Comparing it to CDL's is also stupid. Some companies will train you, some won't. It's economics, no privilege or special treatment. PD's do it the way they do for liability purposes, no other.
You want to complain that I can decide at my desk today that I want a Glock 43 and go buy it and be shooting it and hour later? Fine. But that's separate from my "badge" acting as my permit.
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By the same token ex military shouldn't need permits due to the extensive small arms training received. And yet I still shot more on my own time than I did on duty.I am.
Arguing that we should be required to have permits and "not" having on is a "special privilege" is - ready? - Retarded!
The full academy must be successfully completed before a cop gets their equivalent of a permit, the shield. Training which while maybe not always maintained, at least at the time, goes far above and beyond what is required in NY for a citizen to get their permit.
Maybe you guys have a point though. Maybe citizens should be required to complete full on police academies before getting a handgun permit in NY. You'll get the law, various physical training and shooting courses all over a 6 or so month period. At that point, you get a permit and the right to carry a gun. Oh, and only the ones approved by the department who's academy you complete FYI, not any gun.
This is quite franky the dumbest anti-cop argument of all.
I agree with your theory of course, but that's not what I am addressing here. My ID card/shield is my permit. Cops don't have the same permitting process as citizens, BUT, we absolutely have a controlled system just as onerous as your permit procedure. MORE SO even initially as a full 6+ month police academy is required to achieve our "permit".
I would like to start off by saying that I do not believe in ANY Permit Process.
But as a small counter to this statement, the biggest difference is that while in academy, we receive an ID and our Badge. According to the laws of the land; NY State Penal code and the NY State Criminal Procedure Law, our ID and badge is considered our permit. When we retire, we are only doing a transfer of one form of permit to the next.
Granted, this point for me is a bit moot, I had my Permit prior to taking the job.
I have a hard time understanding why this is so difficult for so many to understand.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
We all understand it ( I think). Are NY court officers considered LEO's? They have badges and guns. They can't carry anything but a G26 with a 12 pound trigger off duty.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
For the 1000th. You are a citizen! You are lumping NYPD in with other Dept.s I think. Many cops had permits before they went through the 6 month training. Some depts allow officers to keep the permit and put guns on it even after they are employed. Not sure how the NYPD handles it. Can you put any gun on your badge? Not all dept's allow that.
I don't have a problem with your badge being your permit, I never did. In fact I doubt anyone here does. The fact that LE undergoes a more stringent proceess than most non LE pemitted citizens is fair enough for me. What people have a problem with is that your LE status allows you access to NYS naughty stuff unrelated yo your work. What everyone else needs to understand is there aint much these two guys can do about it beyond what y'all can. Everyone is this thread, including @GOPerfect and @Airborneguy needs to realize is that they are between a rock and a hard place. Some of y'all a calling for non enforcement of the onerous SAFE act and other anti gun provisions and that is all very well and good. And very easy to ask for when its not your livelihood and possibly very freedom at stake. The day may come that all the LE in this country must pick a side, and by there presence on this forum these two gentleman show that theybare on ours oush come to shove. I see no need to harass them over the few liberties the enjoy. Face it, in NY the deck is overwhelmingly stacked against the forces of liberty. Take what allies you can.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Anyone who says LEO's (active and retired) across the country (and even more so in NY) don't get special 2a rights has no leg to stand on. They are arguing just for the sake of arguing. Saying they have normal rights when the other 99.9% of the population have restricted rights is laughable. If nationwide carry is passed they will STILL have more gun rights but it will be much closer for everyone.
That being said the OP is about a guy with no badge and no permit in a city that denies just about everyone. He's going to get his permit and that's just wrong. It would be better for him if he moved (not sure it's an option or he wants to).
That being said the OP is about a guy with no badge and no permit in a city that denies just about everyone. He's going to get his permit and that's just wrong. It would be better for him if he moved (not sure it's an option or he wants to).
I never expected that. I expected your full support and dedication to the cause.Let me get right on that, I've always wanted your support.
Hey GP, AG, and any other LEO's out there,
I, for one want to say that I have absolutely nothing against you guys on this issue, and have great respect for the job all of you do. (of course one of the reasons I carry my CCW, is because you guys are too heavy to carry around on my back...)
It seems to me that the issue being somewhat hotly debated here is not anti LEO in any manner. I take it as those of us who are non LEO's feel the system is unfair in that we suffer these BS restrictions while you guys do not. That's it! We're certainly not against you over it. Some have said that it is a problem that those of us with CCW's need to take it up with the politicians. I think the bottom line is that many of us are making the argument that if we were all treated the same, that more force could be brought to bear against the politicians to change things.
We're NOT for bringing your rights down to our level; Hell, - we want ALL of us to have the same rights. And as far as having to have CCW permits, I think most all of would agree that we would prefer that the current setup go the way of constitutional carry that is sweeping across other states.
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Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
If I remember correctly, an officer could put his gun on the badge without a NYS permit, how many and weather he, now he and she, could carry off duty was up to the chief or Sheriff that had jurisdiction over his department. Some years ago when the Conservation officers switched to semi-autos they were offered their service revolver as a buy back. Nice guns with the badge roll engraved on the flat above the trigger. Problem was many did not have a NYS permit and were buying them back anyway, some to resell because they had attained collectors value. I don't remember how it all shook out but there was a big brouhaha at the time.
Robin
Robin
No NY state permits allowed, but I know people with out of state permits.
Any handgun on badge, but can only carry from approved list.
No rifle/shotgun permit, but must get one at retirement.
Robin
.475 A&M Magnum
Airborne, you mean you can't obtain a pistol permit until after you leave the department?
Robin
Robin
I'm a member of that club too. The dues outrageous, the facilities are third rate and the staff are all assholes.
Yes. It's part of the retirement process.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
I know! That former cop didn't get a permit and he won't stop bitching about it! He even ran to the media.
I have never taken these conversations as anti cop. I for one want all the same Rights for all people as well.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
NYS court officers have to get a permit and can't put a gun on a badge. Yet they can only carry a G26 off duty with the NY2 trigger. Funny how different dept's handle things.
Court Officers are only Peace Officers, not Police Officers. Small differences in the CPL. They are not allowed by law to put guns on their badge. (I think)
spat
.700 Nitro Express
That is the whole crux of the complaint. If there was some "super permit" that was available to us regular joes that allowed normal magazines, AWs, etc... but required a 6 month course like your academy, it would be BS of course, but it would at least not set up "special" classes of citizens.
People aren't upset at you guys for having your rights slightly less infringed than the rest of us, we are upset that NYS is playing favorites to make you guys more willing to enforce their BS. What really irritates people though is when you say stuff that can be interpreted as defending the NY BS by attempting to justify it (well, my "permit takes 6 months to get", "we make a lot of enemies", etc...)
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm not upset that they have more rights or their rights weren't taken away.
I'm upset that they as a whole collective body enforce the forfeiture of rights and cry foul when it happens to them.
stokes
.338 Win Mag
Court officers can buy/own any pistol they want,like most other depts they are only indemnified if they carry an authorized weapon.They cannot hold any rifle or pistol license while they are employed.The reason being that the only weapons you own are covered only by your employment so if for some disciplinary reason the job takes away your firearms priveleges you wont have any guns on a permit they have no control over.
ECU Pirates
.308 Win
Incorrect (upstate anyway). Court officers have permits and can have pistols on them that are not used for employment. I shoot with a bunch of them. They all have their work G19 on a permit. I know a couple that had their duty guns taken away after getting in trouble (later returned) they also tried to take all shotguns and rifles but were told to F themselves with those. Are you in the city?
What are you doing on this tread by the way? I thought you "were out" pages ago?
They tried to take my shotguns and rifles once too. Only got a few
And @spat separate the two then. "Super permit", fine, at least that complaint makes sense, but a general "cops don't need permits" is just plain dumb, period.
And @spat separate the two then. "Super permit", fine, at least that complaint makes sense, but a general "cops don't need permits" is just plain dumb, period.