"Ghost guns" A-9903A amended ( merged with senate ghost gun thread)

[Phauxtoe]

Wait...? So I can no longer possess a paper weight?

Awww man...

i wanted one for a paper weight for work, damn

 

[John Stark]

Sorry but "What you're hearing" isn't going to get me riled up unless I see it on paper.

Qualification: I hate all these laws.

BUT every time a new proposal comes out we hear wild guesses, assumptions and rumors without fail.

There are not real wild guesses here. ATF almost lost badly on a case in California wherein it was exposed that an AR lower (or any lower similar) is not a "receiver" according to their own regulations, as a receiver is designated by ATF as having threads to accept a barrel, the action, trigger assembly, and magazine feed of some sort. AR lowers and other patterns that have separate "uppers" where the barrel thread are to receive the barrel, as well as the action, are not regulated. They are "parts."

There are only so many parts large enough to serialize unless they are going to serialize tiny numbers on ever little pin and spring. Microstamping such tiny stuff is not even feasible, as NY proved in the past.

So, barrels, frames, uppers, lowers, mags, and stocks are the obvious parts to serialize with existing equipment where the serial numbers can be read without a microscope.

There is no speculation. The only question is what falls under whatever rubric and whether it passes.

Given the penchant for NY to grab as much of our pussy as they can think of, we should not be surprised how many fingers they shove in there.

 

[Phauxtoe]

They literally introduced a bill to put GPS trackers on them. That one won't pass, yet. But this one has violent maniac Kevin Parker's name and signature all over it and is likely to become law in some form.

i saw some of those tattoos, real ones, when working in Miami in the 1990s. it freaked me out!

 

[Phazer]

If such a law really does go into effect, wouldn't it require all "major components" from corporate manufacturers to be serialized?

There is no way suppliers are going to serialize magazines, barrels, triggers, and buffer springs just to sell things in New York. It will be much easier for them all to just abandon New York as a lost cause and stop selling anything into New York state.

 

[John Stark]

Maybe I'm missing something but I'm sure there's plenty of NYers who will have little choice but to comply.
If the FFl can't/won't get it or the company won't ship it directly to your door based on your address, your kinda SOL.

Obviously, The folks that can plan ahead and drive out of state to purchase all their non serialized parts have a choice in the matter as well as anyone that has family/friends in other states willing to buy and ship. Otherwise, we're back to SOL.

It really depends on whether the law passes and the extent of it.

If there is no grandfathering, how is everyone going to meet a deadline to get all necessary parts of any given weapon serialized before any deadline can be met? How many actually gun smiths and qualified FFLs are there in NYS who can not only do the actual work of putting a serial number on any given part, and also have the proper Federal or NYS licensing to do so?

There are already waiting lists to have guns repaired, have barrels tapped for scopes, guns custom built, etc. What will that waiting list look like if we're all supposed to have multiple parts serialized?

Again, that law has no teeth if they grandfather millions and millions of guns. NY legislators and governors are not known to think through or care for the consequences of crap they pass.

Even a small number of NYers who might try to comply with this, even if only "uppers" or barrels were require to be serialized, would be a several years long clown car. There probably aren't enough "qualified gunsmiths" in the entire country to serialize every barrel in NY if they worked 24/7 for several years.

Grandfathering existing guns is pointless, but that would really be the only option if the only goal is to stop new gun builds and criminalize others that have happened since UnSafe. NY would have to allow probably 20-30 million "old" guns to stay in circulation and not be registered and serialized. Pointless, but that would be the only route to stop a circus that is not even remotely feasible if they demand all parts, existing in NY now or in the future, must be serialized.

Its not even just the egregious violation of Rights. Its the total cluster this might become as a matter of practicality.

They only thing they really know about guns are they are bad except for their security details, and that the Second Amendment must be regulated into oblivion.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

NY legislators and governors are not known to think through or care for the consequences of crap they pass.

That's why they get paid the big bucks.

 

[repete]

[QUOTE="ManrisFrack, post: 649683, member: 82"

If this happens, I'm getting an 07 and a three axis laser. $10 per part - that's the NYGF special discount rate.
[/QUOTE]
Great idea! I"m halfway there, I have a laser just need to learn how to use it!

 

[Airborneguy]

There are not real wild guesses here. ATF almost lost badly on a case in California wherein it was exposed that an AR lower (or any lower similar) is not a "receiver" according to their own regulations, as a receiver is designated by ATF as having threads to accept a barrel, the action, trigger assembly, and magazine feed of some sort. AR lowers and other patterns that have separate "uppers" where the barrel thread are to receive the barrel, as well as the action, are not regulated. They are "parts."

There are only so many parts large enough to serialize unless they are going to serialize tiny numbers on ever little pin and spring. Microstamping such tiny stuff is not even feasible, as NY proved in the past.

So, barrels, frames, uppers, lowers, mags, and stocks are the obvious parts to serialize with existing equipment where the serial numbers can be read without a microscope.

There is no speculation. The only question is what falls under whatever rubric and whether it passes.

Given the penchant for NY to grab as much of our pussy as they can think of, we should not be surprised how many fingers they shove in there.

“There is no speculation” is the understatement of the century when included in a post that’s literally 100% speculation.

It is obvious what they are going after: 80% lowers. They’ve learned from past experiences that we manage to get around much of what they write. They needs to craft language which actually bans what they are seeking to ban, so this time, to avoid a new market for “50%” lowers, they’ve included language that bans homebuilding of firearms.

I don’t see anything in that law that suggestions any parts besides receivers must be serialized. I do believe it bans building from even FFL acquired lowers though. It definitely does not mention magazines.

 

[John Stark]

It is obvious what they are going after: 80% lowers. They’ve learned from past experiences that we manage to get around much of what they write. They needs to craft language which actually bans what they are seeking to ban, so this time, to avoid a new market for “50%” lowers, they’ve included language that bans homebuilding of firearms.

I don’t see anything in that law that suggestions any parts besides receivers must be serialized. I do believe it bans building from even FFL acquired lowers though. It definitely does not mention magazines.

Its right there in the language of the bill posted in the very first post of this thread:

This bill addresses the growing threat posed by the manufacture,
possession, and sale of unregistered, untraceable guns and gun compo-
nents with no serial numbers (collectively known as "ghost guns") in New
York State.

A gun is the receiver or "lower" by definition from the ATF (although this is now a matter of legal dispute when it comes to "lowers" because of the criminal case in CA). This bill clearly states untraceable guns AND gun components in easy to read black and white letters. Further, all of the articles and quotes from Andy and legislators are talking about "guns" AND "parts" or "guns" AND "gun parts" or "guns" AND "components."

Or are we not to believe our lying eyes?

Bet there is no exemption for law enforcement either.

 

[John Stark]

Straight from the official NY "Public Safety" press release approved by King Andy:

Governor Andrew M. Cuomo today announced the 18th proposal of his 2020 State of the State agenda — banning untraceable "ghost guns" by requiring firearm parts be sold only to authorized buyers, requiring the same eligibility requirements as a completed firearm and that all major parts receive a serial number. The Governor's proposal would ban individuals from obtaining major components of a firearm, rifle or shotgun online; instead, individuals would need to ship these parts to a licensed gun dealer where they would be picked up in person. The proposal would prohibit individuals who are forbidden to possess a firearm, rifle or shotgun from owning a major component of these guns, and create new misdemeanor and felony penalties for violating these new provisions.

"Parts." Completed parts AND "...all major parts receive a serial number." Ban... "from obtaining major components of a firearm, rifle, shotgun online." " Individuals would need to shop "these parts" (referring back to "major components" plural in the same sentence). "Prohibit individuals who are forbidden to possess a firearm.... from owning a major component of these guns."

Clear distinctions are being made between completed firearm and "major parts."

As always with Dem assholes, they gotta it pass before we can see what is in it, but the language is there.

 

[Target]

The " Ghost Gun" angle is just a BS excuse to cause registration.
Again, the government is focusing on AR pattern rifles , the least used rifle in crimes but potentially, the best rifle for a REVOLUTION.

There are plenty of untraceable guns.
Pretty much every long gun sold face to face prior to safeact in NY is potentially a "ghost".

That Lever action 30-30 you bought from that guy that died in '79....pretty much untraceable.

I watched the documentaries on how they trace guns on Youtube. Using the serial #, they contact the manufacturer and ask where it went from there.
Manufacturer looks through records to find distributor. Call the distributor, who did they sell it to? Call the retailer. Who was the buyer? Call him. Do you still have it? No? Who did you sell it to?

If the dealer is no longer in business, they search the 4473s that they now have from said dealer till they find the SN, tie it to a name. Start making calls.

 

[Twogunwilly]

Dibs on FUAC1

 

[spat]

I am waffling between the ever popular "register nothing" plan, and the "get an 07 FFL then stamp the whole plumbing aisle". Wonder what they would say if I registered 1000 "80% receivers".

 

[Airborneguy]

Because 80% lowers are not “guns” and they know that. This is their way of banning homebuilding. I see nothing that indicates parts other than as stands now will need to be serialized to be NY legal. Definitely nothing that suggests magazines.

 

[subsonic]

The press release has no legal force. The preamble has no legal force (although it could be referred to in interpreting the law's purpose). The bill (not yet a law) that I found would require serialization and registration of "unfinished firearm frames or receivers" or of unserialized guns made after 1968.

I certainly hope that compliance with that part is as close to zero as possible and that fewer people register 80% lowers or home-smithed guns than registered assault rifles. Move your shit out of state if you must but don't give this new gun grabbing list an iota of legitimacy.

 

[MothMan]

Bet there is no exemption for law enforcement either.

 

[John Stark]

Because 80% lowers are not “guns” and they know that. This is their way of banning homebuilding. I see nothing that indicates parts other than as stands now will need to be serialized to be NY legal. Definitely nothing that suggests magazines.

The Active bill listed states:

Section 3 adds a new subdivision 11 to section 265.02 of the penal law
to provide that a person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in
the third degree (a Class D felony) when a person possesses an unfin-
ished firearm frame or receiver or a ghost gun, with certain exceptions.

They may not be guns now, but they are according to this bill.

Making an 80% into a finished receiver and building a gun out of that is not all this bill makes illegal.

NY is redefining the legal definition of "weapon" here as either an "unfinished firearm frame or reciever" OR "a ghost gun."

That is very clear in the text. Felony CPW if you have an 80% lower/frame.

You can't shoot it or use it for anything other than a paper weight in reality, thus its not a really gun, firearm, or weapon of any sort (just as it is right now in NY); however, the statute clearly redefines it as a felony Criminal Possession of a Weapon if this bill passes.

Its not that you just can't "smith" or "build" an 80% into "ghost gun" unless you are a qualified gunsmith or FFL, and thereby run afoul of the law. You CANNOT posses an 80% frame at all. It will be illegal to possess one just as it would an actual gun, i.e., a ghost gun.

 

[John Stark]

The press release has no legal force. The preamble has no legal force (although it could be referred to in interpreting the law's purpose). The bill (not yet a law) that I found would require serialization and registration of "unfinished firearm frames or receivers" or of unserialized guns made after 1968.

This Active bill you posted in the first post of this thread absolutely does not "require serialization and registration of unfinished firearm frames or receivers." It clearly states that possession of such unfinished frames or receiver would become a felony under the bill:

Section 3 adds a new subdivision 11 to section 265.02 of the penal law
to provide that a person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in
the third degree (a Class D felony) when a person possesses an unfin-
ished firearm frame or receiver or a ghost gun, with certain exceptions.

You can't register an unfinished frame or receiver to stay clear of this law, because mere possession of one would be a felony as soon as you have it.

The press release obviously has no force of law, but it absolutely does signal what Andy is shooting for. He certainly reads press releases like this before they go out, because he's a micro-managing moron.

However, to say that the "preamble has no legal force (although it could be referred to in interpreting the law's purpose)." is really to say that it does have the force of law, depending upon how a cop, DA, or judge interprets it.

This is the reason a bill has a Purpose laid out, so that citizens, cops, DAs, and judges know the point of the law before they start deciding the scope of it. I wouldn't bet a freaking donut that any of this bill would be ignored when NY wants to make an example of a brand new, 80% possessing NYer who hasn't even built an actual gun out of the damn thing is swinging in the dock.

You can't register an 80% NOW in NY, because its not yet a firearm, gun, or weapon. And you won't be able to register one if this bill passes either, because it will be a felony to even have it, let alone use tools on it.

 

[Airborneguy]

You’re twisting words and shifting meanings from post to post to justify your hysterics.

Not “guns” was used to explain that 80% lowers are not legally firearms in any way, so to address them within this law, they did what you are doing - twisted language - in a way that they believe “captures” 80% lowers to ban them in NYS. They didn’t ban the whole plumbing aisle like Spat is facetiously saying or write a bill that serializes magazines. They wrote language that they *think* will outlaw 80% lowers.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I want my mommy.

 

[MothMan]

Nope.

 

[togmaster]

I think they are throwing shit at the wall and seeing what will stick. These ideas are so far out there the y will be impossible to implement. Look at the ammo data base.

 

[FrankenCub]

Even if its impossible to implement they have done their job. Retailers will not sell to NY residents. Something wears out or you break something, forget replacing them unless you have spares in stock. Your only option is to go out of state and that's not viable to some. Some stores close to the NY border also may not want to take the risk selling parts to someone that may not be s resident of that state.

 

[Jmac00]

do you people not know people in other state's? this "law" is so much bullshit that most people are simply going to ignore it, just like the 'AR-registration/UN-safe act bullshit.

 

[FrankenCub]

do you people not know people in other state's? this "law" is so much bullshit that most people are simply going to ignore it, just like the 'AR-registration/UN-safe act bullshit.

I'm sure it's going to ignored by gun owners in large, but many of us do not know people in other states. I have no one out of state to help me out and I guarantee I'm not alone.

 

[Jmac00]

I'm sure it's going to ignored by gun owners in large, but many of us do not know people in other states. I have no one out of state to help me out and I guarantee I'm not alone.

well that sucks, I got friends and family in 16 states, you people need to get out more,

 

[MothMan]

Or at least do a road trip or two!!

 

[Acer-m14]

I'm sure it's going to ignored by gun owners in large, but many of us do not know people in other states. I have no one out of state to help me out and I guarantee I'm not alone.

well we do have one .. Eddy but the shipping will be brutal .. LOL ..

 

[spat]

You’re twisting words and shifting meanings from post to post to justify your hysterics.

Not “guns” was used to explain that 80% lowers are not legally firearms in any way, so to address them within this law, they did what you are doing - twisted language - in a way that they believe “captures” 80% lowers to ban them in NYS. They didn’t ban the whole plumbing aisle like Spat is facetiously saying or write a bill that serializes magazines. They wrote language that they *think* will outlaw 80% lowers.

How is a pipe cap not an 80% receiver ?

It's a lot easier to "finish" than an 80% AR receiver ?

We all know what they are trying to do with this BS. The question is what are they *actually* doing ?

 

[MothMan]

Monkeyface and Fuckspatrick are bunk buddies from back in the Moreland Commission wouldn’t expect less.