Yeah kinda lame performance out of a rifle.
Help me decide on an AR build direction
- Thread starter Podmonkey
- Start date
Yeah kinda lame performance out of a rifle.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
A 9mm out of a 3 inch barrel is faster but they are pointy. So who knows?
Perhaps @meketrefe can chime in. He loves that caliber.
I think it's a cool round, I'm just not impressed with the subsonics performance. The gel tests for the supersonics look really great. I'm no expert but the high quality supersonic defense ammo for .300 BLK look like some of the most efficient rounds I've ever seen in terms of power to terminal ballistics performance (meaning the round does more damage with less muzzle energy).
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Fwiw. The atf recanted about the shouldering the brace.
You CAN shoulder it. They do not have the authority to say how an item is used. Their authority was/is to determine if it is a stock or not. They said no. So fuck them.
If you use a knife to take out a screw.....does that make it a screwdriver? Or is it still a knife?
Same same
You CAN shoulder it. They do not have the authority to say how an item is used. Their authority was/is to determine if it is a stock or not. They said no. So fuck them.
If you use a knife to take out a screw.....does that make it a screwdriver? Or is it still a knife?
Same same
I was never that worried about such ridiculous hair splitting in the first place. If they are good with braces then the whole SBR thing should just go away entirely.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
I agree and it's totally logical but ya gotta remember the stocks bring in revenue.
ETA: Will forgot to also include the 300 BLK gel test
I don't give a fraction of a sliver of a damn about their revenue. If the need money they can fire some agents.
Anyways, this is what I had in mind for the 14.5 carbine rail/gas block.
I looked at the weights and the 9" Centurion C4 rail with a DD 14.5" lightweight barrel is about 5oz less than than the 15" keymod rail and 16" gov't profile barrel that my current rifle is equipped with. Add the gas block and it's just about a wash. Which is pretty good for a quad rail gun considering how light overall the DD is. I'd definitely go with a battlelink minimalist stock to keep weight down and for a while I would run fixed DD sights on it.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Good point. By the same token if one is going to compare calibers pick high performance ammo and not Vietnam era 55gr 5.56.
So if one picks high performance ammo to compare the whisper/blackout with lets say 6.8, 5.56, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel all fired from
pistol /PDW barrels between 10 and 11" the blackout will be the last one in terms of power and speed. The 6.8 will be hard to beat
at this role.
For example:
The 300BO HS 110gr tac-x will yield 2,169fps from my 10.5" barrel.
The 5.56 77gr TMK will produce 2,558 from my 11" ARP barrel.
At 10 yards the 5.56 will produce 12" of penetration in ballistic gel while the TacX will produce 10 to11".
Wound channels are pretty similar with the penetration being superior with the 77gr 5.56.
Then after a few yards the 5.56 continues strong with more energy and flatter refractories at
100, 200 and 300 yards. See chart below.
The 7.62x39 premium ammo is capable of launching a 130gr-150gr
at similar speeds than the 300 BO launches a 110gr from a short barrel.
The 6.8 leaves them all in the dust.
There are a lot of "experts" saying the 300 blackout is ideal for PDW role. It is a good caliber
no doubt but it is not the best.
The thing is, one needs to understand ballistics.
Cost of the others is also less when you talk about solid and high peroformance ammo including
expensive monolithic subsonic.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
...Btw the chopping block you tuber is fun and all that but not a professional test.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Here, this will be my "won the lottery" build.
View attachment 11921 View attachment 11922 View attachment 11923 View attachment 11924 View attachment 11925
Plus all titanium hardware, and in .204 ruger for extra wierdness. For when I feel like blowing $4k.
AKA "Trust fund baby" build.
What about an hand-guard made of fussily pasta and if one gets hungry one can eat it in an emergency?
cheaper to make too.
I'd love to build a SBR but it your not a cop your not getting signed off on by the local Cheif. So for me 16.5in or more.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I would say for very small barrels go with grain. If you have a mid or large frame then pick speed.
Look at the cratch project. The russians built a frame to pump a luger to 2000fps. Pretty much the essence
of the 357SIG with 80gr solid copper.
For the all use all weather pick a nice quality ammo like double tap, corbon, underwood (hot stuff).
The ideal lenght for 9mm is 12 inches and nothign longer than 14" after that most loads acutally slow down.
For 16" carbine legal is actually better to get a 14" incher and add + pin + weld and extension to meat the lenght.
gun_slinger_boy
.338 Win Mag
Interesting. Was that tac-x commercial ammo or did you reload it? Also what distance are you chronographing it? I averaged about 2100fps out of my 10.5 barrel using 110gr v-max with a middle of the road charge.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I built the 35 gunner for that reason. If I am going to have a 10" I send them grain! (200-250grains)
SBRs/PDW are cool but when you think about it a 16" carbine in NY w/o even a device is pretty handy for anything
and everything, yes, including hunting from a tree stand.
The rest are just personal preferences.
Modern technique is to extended your weak hand further out on the rifle for more control, thus the trend away from short rails and quad rails. Besides why carry all those rail sections if you aren't going to use them? I wish 12" of the top rail on my MLok upper came off and just left me a short rail section up front for a flip down sight.
Fussily pasta?
Regarding the 6.8, that would probably be the ideal round for the "pistol" build but it is something of a boutique round. I don't see much of it on the shelves and what is costs $1 a round.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Yes the brown box. HS I think. meausred at 8 to 10 ft they all give more or less the same.
2,100 seems like the average. Above is the hottest stuff.
I think that chopping block dude also tested the 77gr TMK.
If you get a chance try the 5.56 80gr double tap that is amazing.
The key here is to remember that one is not restricted to the cheap 55gr for the 5.56 or the cheap 123gr russian for the 7.62x39.
There are may options that should not be ignored. Also data at the muzzle means nothing, we should look at the deference ranges at
the expected impact distance.
The main reason I build the 35 gunner was to triple the power output in a short barrel.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
LOL. I was joking about the above handguard. It is uglier than Pelossy, ... at least IMO.
The Bullet guy is a great guy. He will help you out whether you want to burn money or shop smart.
Because I already have a rifle with a big 'ol 15" rail on it and going a little bit retro kinda appeals to me. A 9" rail isn't exactly short either. The only reason for the quad rail is simply due to a lack of keymod or mlok rails with the fsp cutout. If Centurion offered their CMR rail in the configuration pictured above I would prefer that, but they don't. Also all that is modern is not necessarily the only way to do things.
Burn money <---> Shop smart......... I fit somewhere in the middle.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I understand. I always say invest vs spend.
The other day saw someone looking for a kit barrel looking for the cheapest possible deal and then he got a 350 dollar overpriced
handguard from Rainier. Good way to put the money where it doesn't matter. That is what I mean with burning.
I agree with your example. However I build it out it will be done to a high but reasonable spec. I could get a Noveske barrel but I won't, the DD barrel is more than good enough for my needs. I could use a titanium barrel nut, but I won't its not necessary. I will spend the extra money on , if I can find them in stock, on an improved LMT bolt and a LWRC carrier and neither of those items are really necessary either.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Internals are the beating heart of the AR.
The Barrel, the Bolt/BCG and trigger group.
The rest is just a shell. A floating handguard with a nice nut is a good thing too but
there are many and well priced like the UTG pro made in the usa that does the same or better as a "La Ruin" one.
There is a why for everything.
The Barrel, the Bolt/BCG and trigger group.
The rest is just a shell. A floating handguard with a nice nut is a good thing too but
there are many and well priced like the UTG pro made in the usa that does the same or better as a "La Ruin" one.
There is a why for everything.
Well............. Truth be told that Centurion rail is pretty expensive as well, but I like the features it has, light weight (for a quad) plenty of qd sling mounts and even utilizes the standard barrel nut.
The reason I like the LWRC bolt carrier is that the gas key is integral, its not staked on. That's neat. And the LMT enhanced bolt is pretty much the ultimate AR bolt. Though having a proprietary extractor setup complicates repair logistics. As for the trigger I am very pleased with my $90 EDT. For a quick and handy carbine I think a single stage trigger is better suited.
I have the door kicker pretty much all spec'd out in my head. I haven't thought much about the SPR build though, and thats what everybody seems to be favoring. Its logical, I'd get more out of an SPR for range time. I'm not sure how I'd set it up though. Definitely a nicer barrel, proly a stainless steel match type, or maybe LWRC's nice, heavy profile but heavily fluted nitrided barrel. Handguard I dunno about. Maybe just a basic tubular free float? Internals would be the same except for the trigger. A nice Geissele or maybe even an AR Gold? Stock no idea, other than I think a Magpul PRS is too heavy for a proper SPR. Maybe just an A2 stock.
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I have an 8.5" 300 blackout I was going to use for hunting with supers. Here's a review on some subs I need to watch again. Hopefully the hpa will pass so I can throw a can on it.
ManrisFrack
6.5 Creedmoor
Federal American Eagle 6.8 Remington SPC Ammo, 115 Grain FMJ, 20 Rounds - 311019, 6.8 Remington SPC Ammo at Sportsman's Guide
6.8 at $0.78 per round, in stock. Police your brass, put it up on 68Forums for $0.35 per and you'll have a buyer in an hour or two. That makes it about $0.50 per round all said and done.
6.8 at $0.78 per round, in stock. Police your brass, put it up on 68Forums for $0.35 per and you'll have a buyer in an hour or two. That makes it about $0.50 per round all said and done.
You don't need a Cleo signiture anymore you just have to notify them. The ATF changed the rule last year.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I think if one is going to shoot at soft bodied 2 leggers within combat engagements of 0 to 200 yards (realistically within 100 yards for an average guy in defensive mode) a body will not know the difference if shot with a premium .223 70 gr TSX or a 75 gr Gold Dot compared to a 6.8.
Just my opinion. Those .223 rounds take down bucks and hogs.
It's not worth the hassle for the unavailability.
Just my opinion. Those .223 rounds take down bucks and hogs.
It's not worth the hassle for the unavailability.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
True. The hogs is a different story though. They are though as nails. The 6.8 is perfect for them.
Another advantage of the 5.56 and 6.8 over the whisper/blakcout and x39 is that it will defeat the hardest barriers where
the others will fail. Impact speed is the key as you already know.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
The 70 gr TSX has taken it's share of hogs according to posters on other forums.