Help me decide on an AR build direction

[Darth]

The 70 gr TSX has taken it's share of hogs according to posters on other forums.

*says this to a guy with more ballistics knowledge than I could hope to accrue*
"Darth acts like he knows everything!" You funny!

Coming from a guy that knows not even the first thing about building that new stropped AR NYGF lower (me).

Seriously, I don't even know what calibers I can do. Let alone pistol/carbine/mid/rifle length, barrel length, features.

My first AR was for fun (first full time job in fact) , I want this one to be MINE. And I want it to be in FDE.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I think if one is going to shoot at soft bodied 2 leggers within combat engagements of 0 to 200 yards (realistically within 100 yards for an average guy in defensive mode) a body will not know the difference if shot with a premium .223 70 gr TSX or a 75 gr Gold Dot compared to a 6.8.

Just my opinion. Those .223 rounds take down bucks and hogs.

It's not worth the hassle for the unavailability.

Except that it IS available... at least as available as those two specific loads. And... at a very similar price point you'll find at least half a dozen 6.8 bullets loaded by several companies. Check it out...

Bulk Ammo for Sale Online Free Shipping Available

Don't forget, OP is in PA and can mail order ammo from anyone. 6.8 isn't nearly as "boutique" and "unavailable" as people think and it's gotten there mostly on merit, not marketing like some other AR-15 rounds.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Except that it IS available... at least as available as those two specific loads. And... at a very similar price point you'll find at least half a dozen 6.8 bullets loaded by several companies. Check it out...

Bulk Ammo for Sale Online Free Shipping Available

Don't forget, OP is in PA and can mail order ammo from anyone. 6.8 isn't nearly as "boutique" and "unavailable" as people think and it's gotten there mostly on merit, not marketing like some other AR-15 rounds.

I mean when you go to the gunshop or if picked up from a dead soldier, cop, or enemy off the ground in a SHTF scenario.

It's best to carry what the police and military have in my opinion.

 

[ManrisFrack]

I mean when you go to the gunshop or if picked up from a dead soldier, cop, or enemy off the ground in a SHTF scenario.

It's best to carry what the police and military have in my opinion.

As I understand it, OP already has a DD in 5.56? Even if you DO consider SHTF that plays out to a situation where you're scavenging dead cops and soldiers for ammo likely enough to plan for, not every gun one owns has to fit into that scenario. That's really Podmonkey's call. I'm just trying to make sure a good caliber doesn't get written off for reasons that aren't necessarily valid.

And I think all of my local gun shops carry at least some 6.8. It's always overpriced and it's often Remington (which is absolute junk), but it's there. Gander, Walmart and Bass Pro usually don't carry it but Cabela's always has some. So many other guys have the same thinking, that I'd bet 6.8 is actually easier to find in a shortage situation.

 

[Podmonkey]

I mean when you go to the gunshop or if picked up from a dead soldier, cop, or enemy off the ground in a SHTF scenario.

It's best to carry what the police and military have in my opinion.

Counter balancing that is that if I were to do a "pistol" build It would mostly be a fun gun and MAYBE an HD gun if and when its suppressed. SHTF gun would be the 5.56 DD.
The "pistol" would look much like this one:
Only with a 10.5 barrel.

 

[Cleck]

*says this to a guy with more ballistics knowledge than I could hope to accrue*
"Darth acts like he knows everything!" You funny!

Coming from a guy that knows not even the first thing about building that new stropped AR NYGF lower (me).

Seriously, I don't even know what calibers I can do. Let alone pistol/carbine/mid/rifle length, barrel length, features.

My first AR was for fun (first full time job in fact) , I want this one to be MINE. And I want it to be in FDE.

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but this is what I interpreted your question to be, so here's a list of stuff you can make an AR out of w/ a standard AR15 lower (I think):

.223 REMINGTON / 5.56X45MM
30 Carbine
.300 AAC BLACKOUT / .300 WHISPER
.338 Lapua
5.45x39mm
6.5 GRENDEL
6.8 REMINGTON SPC
5.7X28MM
7.62X39MM
.458 SOCOM
.50 BEOWULF
.22LR, 9MM, .40 S&W, .45 ACP
.410 SHOTGUN
.50 BMG

I'm sure there's more. Some of these require different BCG's and stuff, but this is a basic idea.

.458 was fun to shoot

 

[UltraT]

Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but this is what I interpreted your question to be, so here's a list of stuff you can make an AR out of w/ a standard AR15 lower (I think):

.223 REMINGTON / 5.56X45MM
30 Carbine
.300 AAC BLACKOUT / .300 WHISPER
.338 Lapua
5.45x39mm
6.5 GRENDEL
6.8 REMINGTON SPC
5.7X28MM
7.62X39MM
.458 SOCOM
.50 BEOWULF
.22LR, 9MM, .40 S&W, .45 ACP
.410 SHOTGUN
.50 BMG

I'm sure there's more. Some of these require different BCG's and stuff, but this is a basic idea.

.458 was fun to shoot

I don't think .338 Lapua or .50 BMG are going to fit!

 

[Cleck]

I don't think .338 Lapua or .50 BMG are going to fit!

You build it as a single shot bolt action upper.

So you're right, I guess it's cheating.

 

[Cleck]

And I guess you're technically right, as a 338 is more like an AR10

My bad

 

[pmcjuryny]

Fwiw. The atf recanted about the shouldering the brace.

You CAN shoulder it. They do not have the authority to say how an item is used. Their authority was/is to determine if it is a stock or not. They said no. So fuck them.

If you use a knife to take out a screw.....does that make it a screwdriver? Or is it still a knife?

Same same

Just wondering if you have a link to where they did this? I took a look and didn't find it, everything I saw still indicated that changing the use was "redesigning" it.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[ManrisFrack]

Counter balancing that is that if I were to do a "pistol" build It would mostly be a fun gun and MAYBE an HD gun if and when its suppressed. SHTF gun would be the 5.56 DD.
The "pistol" would look much like this one:
Only with a 10.5 barrel.

In .458 SOCOM!!! That's my vote.

 

[Podmonkey]

In .458 SOCOM!!! That's my vote.

Would you take a .458 SOCOM out for a 500 round range session?

 

[ManrisFrack]

I'd let YOU take it out for a 500 round session if you're buying the ammo.

ETA: Fine. Guess you gotta go with 6.8 then.

 

[Podmonkey]

Y'know I checked on ammo availability and price at my go to online retailer. For the 6.5 Grendal There was a page worth of entries. Some Hornady stuff at $1.00 a round or slightly more, some PPU stuff at around $.70 per round which is the stuff I'd actually buy but it was all out of stock, and surprisingly a large amount of Wolf steel case for around $.30 per round!
For 6.8 there was a half page of entries mostly from Hornady and Federal ranging from $1.10 to $.80 per round. Most of it was out of stock.
Anyway this is not a caliber war thread, this is a configuration discussion so keep those votes coming please! I am weighting the poll heavily in my decision.

 

[meketrefe]

The 70 gr TSX has taken it's share of hogs according to posters on other forums.

Yes. The issue is too much penetration. The 62ttsx is a better choice with more wounding and perfect penetration.
I feel the 70gr is already too stout for the speed although one could assist by catching some bones like the forelegs.
But when they are on the move after the first shot and hits are not that precise the wounding and momentum of the 6.8 can be greatly appreciated.
In the 68 forums there is a huge dossier of hog hunting and why is a good idea.

 

[DavidJ]

I would stay away from all of them. They are black and evil..... I had to double lock mine to keep them from shooting people

 

[Podmonkey]

How about those of you who have voted explain why you made that particular choice?

 

[UltraT]

How about those of you who have voted explain why you made that particular choice?

I changed my vote to the pistol build. I think the 14.5" bbl overlaps too much with what you already have, and an SPR is going to be significantly more expensive than the other choices.

 

[Podmonkey]

I changed my vote to the pistol build. I think the 14.5" bbl overlaps too much with what you already have, and an SPR is going to be significantly more expensive than the other choices.

Yes, I agree with your logic. However we must factor the inevitable suppressor when considering the pistol build. Short barrel ARs are far too loud without them and I already have hearing impairment.
Also cost is not the first consideration, I consider this a long term project and the expenses will be spread out over a long period. That said, the scope for the SPR does represent a very significant investment.

 

[UltraT]

Yes, I agree with your logic. However we must factor the inevitable suppressor when considering the pistol build. Short barrel ARs are far too loud without them and I already have hearing impairment.
Also cost is not the first consideration, I consider this a longbterm project and the expenses will be spread out over a long period.

An alternative to a silencer could be a linear compensator that helps direct the blast forward. I wonder how well they work?

 

[Podmonkey]

An alternative to a silencer could be a linear compensator that helps direct the blast forward. I wonder how well they work?

Apparently better than one would think.
Flash Cans

 

[ManrisFrack]

Process of elimination really.

The door kicker seemed redundant.

Reading your posts, it seems like you would favor, and have more fun with, a fun blasting gun that could also step into a HD role. That's why I voted pistol over SPR. I push the 6.8 because I have a soft spot for it, but really 5.56 makes more sense for that due to cost. Grendel might actually be worth exploring but I don't know how it does from short barrels. I don't see it mentioned much so I'm guessing not well.

For myself I would favor an SPR build: .223 Wylde probably but maybe Grendel or a 6mm wildcat because I like to be just a little off the beaten path.

I know you said it's not a caliber thing, but I think caliber choice just adds a whole new layer to the building of an AR. Customization is one of the most beautiful things about the platform and caliber is a natural part of that.

 

[Podmonkey]

Process of elimination really.

The door kicker seemed redundant.

Reading your posts, it seems like you would favor, and have more fun with, a fun blasting gun that could also step into a HD role. That's why I voted pistol over SPR. I push the 6.8 because I have a soft spot for it, but really 5.56 makes more sense for that due to cost. Grendel might actually be worth exploring but I don't know how it does from short barrels. I don't see it mentioned much so I'm guessing not well.

For myself I would favor an SPR build: .223 Wylde probably but maybe Grendel or a 6mm wildcat because I like to be just a little off the beaten path.

I know you said it's not a caliber thing, but I think caliber choice just adds a whole new layer to the building of an AR. Customization is one of the most beautiful things about the platform and caliber is a natural part of that.

Fair enough. Its true that in the past I have been more of a blaster sort of shooter. I would like to clarify however that I do now have access to a range with 100, 200, 300 yard lanes with covered benches and everything. I do get enjoyment from slow, deliberate precision shooting as well. I was a pretty good shot back in the day after all, something that I am slowly regaining.

 

[UltraT]

Apparently better than one would think.
Flash Cans

Good to hear people are having significant results.

 

[JamieZ]

An alternative to a silencer could be a linear compensator that helps direct the blast forward. I wonder how well they work?

I have these on 2 out of 3 guns. A 204 and a 223. They work pretty well for pushing the sound forward.
Kaw Valley Precision 22cal Linear Comp-1/2x28 Black Oxide Finish

 

[Podmonkey]

I would also like to point out that were the door kicker option selected that the Daniel Defense would transition from the close up HD gun to more of light weight all rounder. I would put the current red dot onto the 14.5 carbine and equip the DD with a light variable scope, proly a Leupold VX6.
It would become the defacto SPR of the two.
Thanks for all the replies, I'm pretty wide open on this.

 

[Podmonkey]

I have these on 2 out of 3 guns. A 204 and a 223. They work pretty well for pushing the sound forward.
Kaw Valley Precision 22cal Linear Comp-1/2x28 Black Oxide Finish

How far would you say a flash can would go in moderating the blast from a 10.5" barrel?

 

[JamieZ]

Dont know,,,dont know the difference between what I have and a flash can. Those linear comps that I have direct the sound forward and keep my ears from ringing while hunting. Dont know how good they would be on a shorter barrel,,,mine are 16 and 20.

 

[Marine Cpl]

My vote for a pistol was due to a number of reasons. You already have a rifle that can be converted to become a 500 yard tackdriver with just a few inexpensive parts.

AR pistols are more handy in tight spaces. They can be carried loaded behind your truck seat. If things get pretty bad yet there are still laws you might have to follow (think Hurricane Katrina), you can carry one loaded in a backpack. You don't get placed on any lists unlike an SBR which also stipulates that the gun has to remain in your state.

For all intentive purposes, a Shockwave Brace is a shoulder stock so you kind of have a rifle. Equipped with a Kak Slim Flashcan, the flashcan will direct the sound, concussion, and flash away from you and only add 1.75 inches of length with no tax stamp unlike a silencer that puts you on another list.

When it comes down to it, a pistol is just a short rifle that you can actually carry loaded compared to a rifle that you cannot. I see more positives in having a pistol than a SBR rifle or a long barreled long range rifle if you are getting it for defense. For defense, you aren't going to take a 500 yard shot. Hell for hunting you won't take that long of a shot. Most people don't even take that long of a shot for just shooting paper. Unless you have your own land, 500 yard ranges are hard to find.

You can also take 200 to 300 yard shots with a pistol.

Just my opinion.

 

[Eddie Gunks]

Just wondering if you have a link to where they did this? I took a look and didn't find it, everything I saw still indicated that changing the use was "redesigning" it.

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You have to wade through everything for days. I found it one time back when the hoopla was crazy.

Again, in yhe end of the day they cant make policy. Their reach ends at is it a stock or a brace. That is far as they can go.....and they know it. But their "internet scare" has accomllished what their lack of policy can not.

Think of it this way.....if upu shoot your sbr (or even a regular rifle) with ine hand.....is it now a pistol? No. Same same.

If you put a rifled barrel on a shotgun, does it make it a rifle? No. Same same. (Remember shotguns arel defined as shoulder fired smooth bore....). The American Cowboy Chronicles: What is a Shotgun? The ATF Definition

The shotgun example is perfect. Same same

Basically they have egg on their face cause they were outsmarted.

Their only fix is to call them stocks.

What happens if you shoulder a buffer tube?