My point was that the PA 1-8 sounds like it is basically a Vortex HD and therefore gtg. Primary Arms seems to pick its suppliers with some care as the products a generally well received.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I have tested a couple of their scopes and they didn't track correctly when put trought their paces.
Glass is also below average compared to top scope makers in comparable budget.
The stadia design seems smart but it can be too coarse and distracting.
Aspheric aberration was present at high magnification.
I don't now the newest models though.
So they might be well received by some but you don't see them in any sort of serious matches, competition or professional role.
IMO, everyone has to test them and make their own call anyway.
As I said, personally, I rather go with an optics company vs a retailer, ideally a proven product.
I also let the product mature and test it before I buy it. I know this is not an option for some people and sometimes
hard but involves time and patience. I would ask around the range or if one goes to training classes or something.
I do the same with other things, even the cars I buy. Will never buy a totally new model and wait a couple of years
so the manufacturer gets it bug free that if it doesn't disappear that is another possibility (Continuity).
Boring, I know. I guess the engineer inside me.
So..... my priorities in optics have shifted somewhat. Of all the guns I own the new Galil needs a scope the most. And since it is a somewhat heavy gun, and not one I'd really use for close in work I think I will be putting an ACOG on it. I'd prefer the 4×32 ones but it seems all the 308 calibrated reticles are all down in the 3.5x35 models. For this rifle, as I'll be using 150ishgr M80 ball and equivalents most of the time, I will be opting for a BDC reticle. Which is all thats on offer for ACOGs anyway I think.
There are other scopes of this type but the fiber optic Trijicon ones are very light. Given that the scope is mounted on the top cover and that the Galil is fairly heavy already I think the light weight of the ACOGs is a prime consideration.
Though I have heard good things about the PA prism scopes with the ACSS reticle. The only 308 calibrated reticle available is in the 5x model though which I worry would be too limiting. 3-4x magnification is workable down to about 25 yards or so in my, admittedly limited, experience.
There are other scopes of this type but the fiber optic Trijicon ones are very light. Given that the scope is mounted on the top cover and that the Galil is fairly heavy already I think the light weight of the ACOGs is a prime consideration.
Though I have heard good things about the PA prism scopes with the ACSS reticle. The only 308 calibrated reticle available is in the 5x model though which I worry would be too limiting. 3-4x magnification is workable down to about 25 yards or so in my, admittedly limited, experience.
So I'm strongly considering one of these for the ACE:
TA11E ACOG - Trijicon, Inc.
@Willjr75, you are an ACOG fan, which of these reticles would you go with for a 308?
TA11E ACOG - Trijicon, Inc.
@Willjr75, you are an ACOG fan, which of these reticles would you go with for a 308?
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Oh, @mekefrete, regarding your last post regarding the opitical quality and tracking issues of the Primary Arms scopes. I'm guessing you were using the cheapie Chinese ones? I would have to imagine the Japanese built 1-8 model is much improved in these areas.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
I'm not really a fan. I prefer red dots. I can't do both eyes open with a magnified optics.
The bottom one with the chervon has points for 100 (top of Chevron), 200 (bottom point of Chevron, and 300 yards (top of post).
With the other reticles, it's guesswork for those distances.
The bottom one with the chervon has points for 100 (top of Chevron), 200 (bottom point of Chevron, and 300 yards (top of post).
With the other reticles, it's guesswork for those distances.
I want something with some magnifiaction, even a little for 100 yards and beyond. There is a historical basis for 3.5x and 4x fixed power scopes in WWII for what then were considered sniping rilfes but used in a fashion that is more consistent with DMRs in modern doctrine. I just seems that a scope of this sort is a great match for the Galil. All those reticles work in the same way with the hashmarks, they are all 308 BDC reticles. I just wonder which sight picture I'd find most useful. Everyone has their own, strong, opinions. Not much love for the crosshair one though. Most people either seem to gravitate to the cheveron or horseshoe.
And for this rifle I think a BDC reticle is most appropriate since it will mostly see M80 ball run through it. I want to experiment and see what target and duty loads most closely match the M80 ball trajectories. I'll stash a case or two of those Gold Dots for sure, just want to see what weight works best. This will be such a fun exercise!
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Yeah. Cross hair sucks and it's too busy.
With the Horseshoe, I'm not sure what would be the 200 mark.
With the Chevron, you can range with it and figure out what's 200 yards away.
Yeah there is a ranging trick with the horseshoe too, can't rember what it was. Some guy was going on about how its easier than the chevron.Yeah. Cross hair sucks and it's too busy.
With the Horseshoe, I'm not sure what would be the 200 mark.
With the Chevron, you can range with it and figure out what's 200 yards away.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
They are both good but I think you can be more precise within 100 yards with a point compared to a dot. Either way you'll hit but a point is smaller than a dot if you are Irish and like cloverleafs. Lol.
Exonautic
.308 Win
especially considering its a galil, im leaning towards the second one in your post. i really hate the chevron reticle, you can do the same with a circle with some testing. plus i dont like blocking out any significant portion of my target that i'm not aiming at.
Exonautic
.308 Win
keep in mind though this is coming from someone with no formal training, so take it as you will
I'm actually inclined to agree with @Willjr75 here. Seems to me its the horsehoe that obscures more of the target. Its probably a little faster but the chevron is perhaps the best all round reticle of the three.
I've seen a number of pictures that seem to show that an ACOG on a factory spec height mount will just clear the Galil's rear sight.
We will see what level of zero return there is with the top cover after it comes off. Even I'm dubious to that point.
We will see what level of zero return there is with the top cover after it comes off. Even I'm dubious to that point.
Yeah, here we go:
7.62x39 gun but I believe the sight and rail dimensions are the same.
7.62x39 gun but I believe the sight and rail dimensions are the same.
Well, its done. I got the TA11 ACOG, 3.5x with 308 red cheveron reticle. And a Bobro QD mount to go with it because the factory ACOG mount sucks.
I got it from Eurooptic. Pretty good deal as far as ACOGS go, $1,121.07 shipped via priority mail.
I hope it clears the rear sight of the Galil.
I hope it clears the rear sight of the Galil.
GOYABEAN
.950 JDJ
It's about freakin' time I glassed a rifle innit?congrats
Poor @meketrefe will proly bang his head against the wall when he reads this. It's no precision target scope, that's for sure. But I think it is very well suited to the gun. And mounting it is idiot proof.
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meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
It does what you want? yes. Then ok.
I am too old to be banging anything, ... well except one thing .. lol
Consider this though: The old Mosin Nagant snipers had what? A fixed 3.5x optic, low magnification but high clarity, like the ACOG. And its role? Really used in more of a DMR rifle on the battlefield. Its replacement, the SVD? Fixed 4x (yeah also a 6x later on) used as a DMR. In fact defined the type. All three of these rifles have similar mechanical accuracy.
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meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Just limit your time exposure.
This guy had 20-20 vision before he started using the ACOG.. lol
This guy had 20-20 vision before he started using the ACOG.. lol
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
The thing is we put the word "Sniper" and some might think it was about precision shooting at a distance as many see it today (The marksmanship part) but then it had no much to do with it, there were other much bigger challenges and the distances were not the same. IMO the word mosin and sniper should not be used in the same sentence but again, it was not about the equipment anyway.
Well Mosins were used in the traditional sniping role too but more often the Russians mixed in their scoped Mosin marksmen in with the front line troops in a way that we now refer to as the Designated Marksman. Precison long range fire can have a suppresive effect similar to machine gun fire. The Russians may have been short of machine guns early on but they had plenty of Mosins. Then the Russians doubled down on this concept with the SVD which has filled its niche very well. Given the move to precision carbines like the HK M110A1 CSASS or the British L129A1 (LMT 308 carbine) I see my Galil very much as a parallel to these weapons. But with the TA11 ACOG it is more of a Russian flavor in that it scarifices ultimate precision for speed and all round usability. The Ace has enough accuracy with M80 ball for minute of man hits out to 600 meters or even beyond and with match grade ammo it can get the sub moa precison for called shots within the limitations of the low magnification of the optic.
This rifle would be a demon on steel. I wish I had such a range at my disposal nearby.
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Gonna necro this for an update and more opinions. And because political talk is too depressing.
Had an opportunity to check out a variety of high end scopes the other week, including that Nightforce NX8 and the outstanding Kahles Ki6.
I didn't like the NX8. Didn't like the reticle, the dials and the eye box was narrow. The Kahles was an incredible scopes with every single thing I'm looking for in a scope............. but at a $2,000 price tag. Still was strongly considering saving up for one but have now decided to go with the Trijicon Accupoint 1-6. They had one at the place too. The glass is very good and the eye box is pretty forgiving. I also like the battery free illumination system. It's not quite as good as the Kahles but it is half the price. Europtic is running a great deal @ $999 on them.
I'll take the slight weight penalty.
I will be mounting in a Bobro QD mount, I find the Bobro ACOG mount I have to be excellent, and I will also use BUIS from the same. The Bobro BUIS are very light and ridiculously lo pro. Also ridiculously expensive but hey, the difference in cost of the Accupoint over the Ki6 covers the mount, the sights and the fancy trigger I want.
The only thing left to decide is the reticle:
Or
the former would be better for precision at distance while the latter would be better for using up close like a red dot. Not sure where my priority is.
Had an opportunity to check out a variety of high end scopes the other week, including that Nightforce NX8 and the outstanding Kahles Ki6.
I didn't like the NX8. Didn't like the reticle, the dials and the eye box was narrow. The Kahles was an incredible scopes with every single thing I'm looking for in a scope............. but at a $2,000 price tag. Still was strongly considering saving up for one but have now decided to go with the Trijicon Accupoint 1-6. They had one at the place too. The glass is very good and the eye box is pretty forgiving. I also like the battery free illumination system. It's not quite as good as the Kahles but it is half the price. Europtic is running a great deal @ $999 on them.
I'll take the slight weight penalty.
I will be mounting in a Bobro QD mount, I find the Bobro ACOG mount I have to be excellent, and I will also use BUIS from the same. The Bobro BUIS are very light and ridiculously lo pro. Also ridiculously expensive but hey, the difference in cost of the Accupoint over the Ki6 covers the mount, the sights and the fancy trigger I want.
The only thing left to decide is the reticle:
Or
the former would be better for precision at distance while the latter would be better for using up close like a red dot. Not sure where my priority is.
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
I agree it is too depressing. Did you check the 1-8 Bushnell tactical and the 1-8 Trijion RS27?
Yes I did actually. It's a nice scope but it's quite heavy at 28oz. Also I don't really like the segmented circle reticle, it blocks too much of the view.
I also checked out the Nightforce ATACR 1-8. Excellent scope. One of if not the lightest 34mm LPV scopes on the market at 21oz and it addresses most of the issues the NX8 has. But, again, it uses a segmented circle reticle......... And it costs $2,100.
I think I will go with the MIL dot reticle for the Accupoint 1-6. If I were more concerned with up close red dot like performance I would prolly be better off with the smaller, lighter and cheaper 1-4 version. Or I'd go with a red dot/magnifier setup.
Everything is decided, time to start budgeting the funds. IE tax refund.
I also checked out some high end Leupold scopes, also excellent, a bit heavy and very expensive. Also looked at a Leupold VX6 1-6.
I thought the Trijicon was better in every way other than weight.
I thought the Trijicon was better in every way other than weight.