Acer-m14
20×102mm Vulcan
@Podmonkey i got one old tasco scope for my 22lr .. i can focus the eye side for clear radicle (reading glasses) , and adjust the other end for focus of the target .. wish more scopes would allow that ..
meketrefe
.450/400 Nitro Ex
Moa is not more precise than MIL or any other or viceversa.
If you refer to the adjustment then that depends on the amount of adjustment and how fine it is by the manufacturer.
All you need to know is that both systems can be use for raging as well as making accurate corrections when used properly.
The MIL system is easier because it is all in base of 10 (Metric system) and that is why it is the military standard.
The main thing is that if one is going to adjust is better to pickup reticles and turrets that are in consistent units of measure.
Ideally with statias in first focal plane to make meaningful adjustments by using holdover points known to be true that can be
hard to calibrate with 2nd focal plane due to the magnification impacting the scale.
BDC and comp reticles can be used but can be really complicated when changing conditions since one first needs to convert
to whatever the scale dictates and converted back to the desired unit, therefore inducing errors.
BDC are designed for the average range like hunting and average conditions and not long range w/o spending lots more bullets.
What is going to setup a scope apart is the quality of the glass to start with.
The best value right now has to be the weaver tactical 3-15 with mildot (army dot) and mil turrets. All japanese tube, glass and coonstruction. Can be found for 600 or less.
Scopes show their true capabilities only until rigorous testing and use and a proper tracking test will show the quality of the adjustments. The online reviews from reailers are a joke. Better go to professional forums and specially go and check them out in person.
The human eye is the most important part of the optics system and we all have different set of eyes. So try them first.
If you refer to the adjustment then that depends on the amount of adjustment and how fine it is by the manufacturer.
All you need to know is that both systems can be use for raging as well as making accurate corrections when used properly.
The MIL system is easier because it is all in base of 10 (Metric system) and that is why it is the military standard.
The main thing is that if one is going to adjust is better to pickup reticles and turrets that are in consistent units of measure.
Ideally with statias in first focal plane to make meaningful adjustments by using holdover points known to be true that can be
hard to calibrate with 2nd focal plane due to the magnification impacting the scale.
BDC and comp reticles can be used but can be really complicated when changing conditions since one first needs to convert
to whatever the scale dictates and converted back to the desired unit, therefore inducing errors.
BDC are designed for the average range like hunting and average conditions and not long range w/o spending lots more bullets.
What is going to setup a scope apart is the quality of the glass to start with.
The best value right now has to be the weaver tactical 3-15 with mildot (army dot) and mil turrets. All japanese tube, glass and coonstruction. Can be found for 600 or less.
Scopes show their true capabilities only until rigorous testing and use and a proper tracking test will show the quality of the adjustments. The online reviews from reailers are a joke. Better go to professional forums and specially go and check them out in person.
The human eye is the most important part of the optics system and we all have different set of eyes. So try them first.
Last edited:
I think I'm gonna put up a poll, those that have responded please vote. Keep the opinions coming please! As always I find the info invaluable.
Exonautic
.308 Win
I'll second what meke said in regards to a tracking test. Probably the best way to determine the quality of the internals of a scope.
Please define a what a tracking test is and how to conduct it. I'm just assuming most anything from either Trijicon and Zeiss will be gtg.
Exonautic
.308 Win
It's 10 shots. Depending on the gun and scope you can do it at either 100 or 50. Get a good zero, and fire on center of the target. On the second shot you adjust your scope to fire 3 inches to the right but still hold your poa on center. Repeat but with 3 inches down. Then 3 left. So on and so forth in a square pattern. Once you've created a square you adjust back to your original zero and you should be dead on again. If you're not your scopes adjustments are off. Let me see if I can find a good video to explain it better.
You type a lot faster than I do.
@Podmonkey you are shooting a box by dialing the turrets and keeping the same point of aim. The final shot should be in the same hole as the first if the scope tracks perfectly ( and the load/rifle/ shooter are accurate).
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Moa and mil both measure an angle on a circle. Both do the same thing.
Mil is metric. So it is easier to calc on the fly.
FFP and SFP.
FFP the reticle changes size with magnification. FFP all “dots” (under the crosshair). correlate for all distances. So no matter what power you are on the “dots” will line up.
SFP the dots (under the crosshair) only line up on min and max power not in between. The crosshair lines up on all powers.
Mil is metric. So it is easier to calc on the fly.
FFP and SFP.
FFP the reticle changes size with magnification. FFP all “dots” (under the crosshair). correlate for all distances. So no matter what power you are on the “dots” will line up.
SFP the dots (under the crosshair) only line up on min and max power not in between. The crosshair lines up on all powers.
Exonautic
.308 Win
Yeah I guess there is one advantage in being grouped in with the millennials.
Robin
.577 Tyrannosaur.
For what I use a scope for I would prefer a fixed magnification with a fine crisp crosshair. All the money spent on zooms and fancy reticles
I would rather spent on better quality in my plane jane optic. I like all the innovation but not everyone needs all that stuff.
Robin
I would rather spent on better quality in my plane jane optic. I like all the innovation but not everyone needs all that stuff.
Robin
I have a scope made in Germany on my 35 Remington that is exactly as you describe, 6 power 32mm objective lens simple crosshairs and it is perfect for what the gun is capable of doing.
GuyMontag
.44 mag
mil/mil , FFP, Christmas tree reticle
Marine Cpl
.577 Tyrannosaur.
@Podmonkey , have you considered just an ACOG? No mil dots, no Moa. Just points at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500. You can even judge distance by measuring the lines with a man's shoulders. Rugged as hell, no batteries, and specifically designed for a 5.56mm AR. Great glass too. Good for CQB and distance. I used to cover the front glass with the lens covers and with both eyes open, it acted as a red dot.
Eddie Gunks
.338 Win Mag
Yes! And/or horus 59!
I have considered the ACOG. However I shoot too much different types of ammo for a BDC to be practical and I want to continue to shoot a variety of ammo. Also since I have a vision defect in my left eye I cannot do the Bindon aiming thing. A low powered variable is the most versatile solution to my needs. Its seems much of the shootung world has come to the same conclusion, in fact even our slow moving military is begining to test low powered variables. I do like the Trijicon Accupoints for using the same battery free illumination as the ACOGS. Another optical setup I found intuging was Leupold's D-EVO scope, but its seems the execuction fell a little short. I think its a concept that is waiting for someone to come along and perfect.@Podmonkey , have you considered just an ACOG? No mil dots, no Moa. Just points at 100, 200, 300, 400, 500. You can even judge distance by measuring the lines with a man's shoulders. Rugged as hell, no batteries, and specifically designed for a 5.56mm AR. Great glass too. Good for CQB and distance. I used to cover the front glass with the lens covers and with both eyes open, it acted as a red dot.
I can appreciate that, but I think a handy, accurate 16" AR kind of begs for a low powered variable, its a rifle that can fill many roles from 0-400 yards in my view. I myself like to shoot fast up close and I would also like to print little groups out at a distance.
Realistically 400 yards is not that far, a fixed power scope is the way to go. A general rule of thumb is 1 power for every 100 yards. So you would need a 4 power scope minimum, I would go with a 6 power min or maybe a fixed 10 power simple crosshair. I tend to dial a distance but, I can hold over even with simple crosshairs if need be. Knowing your drop/ hold over at distance is the key to fast target engagement.
I'd like to be able to also use the scope at 1x like an ersatz red dot.
Exonautic
.308 Win
Pod, I don't know if this had been mentioned in any of the other threads but check out the eotech Vudu 1-6. I'm not sure about the weight but it's ffp with a reticle that changes drastically between 1 and 6 magnification. It's what I'm putting on my next gun.
Oh, I do like that scope and jave considered it, like its reticle the best by far. Its a touch too heavy at 22oz, I belive and more importantly lacks either capped or locking turrets. This is a SHTF rifle, and I woukd like to get into comp too. Cant have the turrets coming out of adjustment when the rifle is being jostled around. Also the daytime brightness is said to be weak, which is a problem with FFP in general and is a hindrance to using the scope like a red dot.
Exonautic
.308 Win
You know if the reticle is light only or is there an etched reticle also?
Its an etched reticle, the illumination is not needed in daylight. Its just that the idea is that a brightly lit reticle , even during the day, will draw the eye quickly like a red dot would. Daylight brightness is not a make it or brake it feature for me honeslty. Its in the "nice to have" category. Its the turrets that bumped the VUDU pff my short list. If they were just capped I'd take the extra 2oz weight hit.
Exonautic
.308 Win
have you seen the scope in person yet, cause no one around me seems to have it. i really want to get my hands on it before i actually buy one.
Nah, just seen a few videos on it. I think I posted one on your earlier thread. Seems like a great scope, not offering at least a choice of capped turrets is baffling to me.
Exonautic
.308 Win
i think not having capped turrets just fits in what it was intended and marketed for. If the turrets are stiff and definitive i wouldn't be worried about it losing zero.
I've heard that maybe the turrets are not very stiff though Its so hard to tell when these youtubers are given the items to review. They are so tight lipped with any negatives.
Exonautic
.308 Win
yeah unfortunately it takes quite a bit of research to determine who is paid to review stuff and not. IV8888 has become notorious for charging for reviews due to his following. As far as i know MAC(military arms channel) is completely honest and unbiased in his reviews, and he makes that clear to anyone who wants to send him stuff, that if their product is shit it won't be sugarcoated.
Check snipershide for scope reviews they seem to do a pretty good job testing things to the limit.
96coal449
.308 Win
MAC is one of my favorites. Honest in depth reviews.
Jaywmustang
.308 Win
Yes join snipershide. You can get discounts from there vendors