Lets talk Red Dots on handguns

[Edwardteach72]

What do you guys think is a better fit on a Glock 19, Trijicon RMR or RMRcc ?
I know the RMR overhangs the sides of the slide which doesn't thrill me.
I'm not sure about the height on the RMRcc for co-witness, normal or suppressor sights ?
Any opinions are welcome, thanks.

This is from Trijicons IG not sure what glock its on (if its a G19 or more likely a G43x/48 slide)

But first is the RMR


And here is the RMRcc


Now here are a few pics I snapped of my RMR on my G34 MOS with C&H Precision Weapons V4 adapter plate (legit C&H plates made the MOS a viable duty/carry option. Their plates are rock solid AF and matched with the Dawson MOS sights i have zero reservations about this set up as I make it no secrete that I've never really been a fan of the MOS)




In all honesty, any "overhang" would be about the same width as the glock frame (which is already wider than the slide) so you actually don't add any size like people think

 

[Jem45472]

What zero are you guys using ?
I’m zeroed at 25 yards , I don’t like that at defensive distance I have to hold a couple inches high . I’m thinking of a 10 or 15 yard zero , thoughts ?

I use 124gr hst and found this elsewhere, so it's 10 yds for me.

 

[Will556]

What do you guys think is a better fit on a Glock 19, Trijicon RMR or RMRcc ?
I know the RMR overhangs the sides of the slide which doesn't thrill me.
I'm not sure about the height on the RMRcc for co-witness, normal or suppressor sights ?
Any opinions are welcome, thanks.

I’d go with the standard RMR for a 19, which is what I have on my 19. The “overhang” is negligible, and not really noticeable unless you’re purposely looking for. You also gain a larger window with the RMR. As for irons with optics I prefer blacked out irons. Nothing contradictory for my eye to focus on except the red dot. I run Ameriglo GL-429’s.

 

[BMF JK]

What ammo are you using that a 25y zero has you hold a couple inches??


Based on Glock 19 with trijicon RMR and 147g HST with ballistic calculator



View attachment 87327

Mostly 115 practice ammo . I’m actually thinking I developed a bad habbit of anticipating the recoil it’s pissing me off .
I haven’t been shooting nearly as much lately due to ammo shortage.
I’m taking a couple classes next month to get myself squared away .

 

[Edwardteach72]

 

[nortatoga]

 

[Defilade]

 

[Edwardteach72]

Wait did they drop a new version of the sro?

 

[Defilade]

Wait did they drop a new version of the sro?

He dropped it twice, waist high on grass and wood. The SRO survived his small test but he admitted it not to be a duty use red dot. Overall a positive review. It has great features as expected from trijicon but by design not as robust as a Rmr.

 

[Edwardteach72]

He dropped it twice, waist high on grass and wood. The SRO survived his small test but he admitted it not to be a duty use red dot. Overall a positive review. It has great features as expected from trijicon but by design not as robust as a Rmr.

I saw the title and thought they did a mini SRO.

I know Trijicon deff says its a competition optic but I know a lot of people are pushing it into an edc role and loving it

 

[Will556]

 

[Edwardteach72]

Well this just dropped from C&H Precision...

 

[TopShot]

@Edwardteach72
WOW !
3 iron sights and a red dot, how could you miss ? LOL

 

[Edwardteach72]

@Edwardteach72
WOW !
3 iron sights and a red dot, how could you miss ? LOL

I mean you would take the rear sight off

 

[togmaster]

I mean you would take the rear sight off

NFW. I need all the help I can get.

 

[Phazer]

Well this just dropped from C&H Precision...

View attachment 87993

Ummm....the lower mounting plate that includes a rear sight should not be used if there is already a rear sight installed. If a slide is milled so that the rear dovetail is removed and the optic is mounted in the far rearward position, then such a plate is potentially useful to provide a backup sight.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Ummm....the lower mounting plate that includes a rear sight should not be used if there is already a rear sight installed. If a slide is milled so that the rear dovetail is removed and the optic is mounted in the far rearward position, then such a plate is potentially.

Wait what??

This gives people the option on an MOS to have irons forward (obviously take out the rear sight from the dove tale)

 

[Edwardteach72]

Irons forward > irons rear

 

[Phazer]

For those interested, I just had to return a Holosun HS507c ver2 in exchange for a replacement from Amazon. After using it at a course for a few hundred rounds, it appeared that the 2 MOA dot disappeared. I finally figured out that what really happened was that the optic lost the ability to display the 2 MOA dot unless the emitter was set on high. So, when my sight was set on 2 MOA dot at "brightness 4", the dot was not displayed. When set for auto brightness, the dot would not display. If the optic was set for the 32 MOA ring, that could be displayed at any brightness level. But, if the sight were set for "ring + dot" the dot would not display unless the brightness was at the highest setting. If the brightness level was decreased, the ring would dim and the dot would disappear.

The replacement sight seems to work, so far. But, I have only used it at the range for about 100 rounds.

The 507c ver1 that I've got on a mounting plate on my original pistol slide still works fine. That sight will move to another firearm.

 

[Aether]

Did a 2 day red dot class at Ridgeline Training in Dalton, NH with Scott Jedlinski of “Modern Samurai Project” on 9/11 and 9/12. Shooting from 3 yards out to 25 yards on a 10 yard zero, approximately 600-700 rounds for the two days. “Jedi” is a master of the red dot. He has the contract to train FBI spec ops in the use of the red dot equipped pistol. I cannot recommend this class enough as you will really learn to run your red dot equipped pistol.

A warning: his teachings are contrary to many conventional methods currently taught; an open mind is an absolute prerequisite. Jedi teaches from a “kinesthetics” standpoint; he will challenge (and maybe change) your perceptions of how to shoot your EDC handgun. I usually consider learning 1 new piece of info that I will incorporate into my EDC during a two day class to be the “this was worth the money” point. I am still trying to process the wealth of new techniques that I learned and how to incorporate them into my EDC.

I have a Sig P320 with a DPP and a Sig P365 with a Holosun 507k (both slides milled). Used the P320 for the class. Awesome experience.

 

[togmaster]

Did a 2 day red dot class at Ridgeline Training in Dalton, NH with Scott Jedlinski of “Modern Samurai Project” on 9/11 and 9/12. Shooting from 3 yards out to 25 yards on a 10 yard zero, approximately 600-700 rounds for the two days. “Jedi” is a master of the red dot. He has the contract to train FBI spec ops in the use of the red dot equipped pistol. I cannot recommend this class enough as you will really learn to run your red dot equipped pistol.

A warning: his teachings are contrary to many conventional methods currently taught; an open mind is an absolute prerequisite. Jedi teaches from a “kinesthetics” standpoint; he will challenge (and maybe change) your perceptions of how to shoot your EDC handgun. I usually consider learning 1 new piece of info that I will incorporate into my EDC during a two day class to be the “this was worth the money” point. I am still trying to process the wealth of new techniques that I learned and how to incorporate them into my EDC.

I have a Sig P320 with a DPP and a Sig P365 with a Holosun 507k (both slides milled). Used the P320 for the class. Awesome experience.

Already signed up for his December class at Sig. Looking forward to it.

 

[Aether]

His class is really, really an eye opener. When he starts talking about ergonomics and grip, you are likely to say “WTF!” Trust me, it works. His grip technique is totally contrary to anything else I have ever learned. Plus, Scott is a great guy. Go to dinner with him, just do NOT order an IPA!

 

[togmaster]

His class is really, really an eye opener. When he starts talking about ergonomics and grip, you are likely to say “WTF!” Trust me, it works. His grip technique is totally contrary to anything else I have ever learned. Plus, Scott is a great guy. Go to dinner with him, just do NOT order an IPA!

But I love IPA's.

 

[Edwardteach72]

His class is really, really an eye opener. When he starts talking about ergonomics and grip, you are likely to say “WTF!” Trust me, it works. His grip technique is totally contrary to anything else I have ever learned. Plus, Scott is a great guy. Go to dinner with him, just do NOT order an IPA!

I think I can handle that last part ....

 

[Xae289]

So not exactly the most tactical application, but I decided to try it for handgun hunting/woods carry this season. I previously put it on my Glock 35 briefly before I sold it. I really don't like the bulk of the optic and I definitely prefer a 2 MOA dot like my Aimpoint over a 3. If I like how it looks in the field, I'm going to have to look into a smaller optic with a smaller dot. Planning on zeroing it later.

 

[Edwardteach72]

So not exactly the most tactical application, but I decided to try it for handgun hunting/woods carry this season. I previously put it on my Glock 35 briefly before I sold it. I really don't like the bulk of the optic and I definitely prefer a 2 MOA dot like my Aimpoint over a 3. If I like how it looks in the field, I'm going to have to look into a smaller optic with a smaller dot. Planning on zeroing it later.

View attachment 89279

These are other amazing applications for red dots on handguns..

Perfect little deer gun that gives you faster more accurate shots..

As for dot size, with this set up you deff have a lot more options..

But I know for a fact Trijicon RMR RM09 is a 1 MOA dot.

And similar to the one you have on it now (but would be a solid upgrade) would be the Holosun line, I know the 403b would be a 2moa dot as well

 

[Jem45472]

 

[Xae289]

So I didn't like the weight and balance of the 4+ oz TRS-25 on my revolver so I decided to put a miniature reflex sight on my 629. I bought the Swampfox Kingslayer after hearing good things about it. It's a 1.2 oz part including the Picatinny rail base with a 3 moa dot framed by a 65 moa circle and crosshairs.

It's not auto-on, is auto-off (after 4 hrs), and the battery life is relatively short, so it's not a good carry optic, but I figured it would be plenty for target-shooting and hunting for under $200.

I've tried a bunch of miniature handgun red dots (Vortex Venom, RMR, one of the Sig Romeos) but only owned 2 tube red dots before the Kingslayer – the Aimpoint PRO and the Brownells TRS-25. The TRS-25 put a bad taste in my mouth when it came to 3 moa dots because the 2 moa Aimpoint is much sharper and more precise, so I thought it was a size issue. Turns out it's more of a brightness issue. The TRS is too bright on its lowest setting in low-light. Since I do most of my shooting indoors and see most animals in low-light, it's a problem. The TRS is back on my 2nd-string AR. The Kingslayer's brightness range is great, from visible only in darkness to bright enough to see when all the lights in the room are on and it's pointed directly at a bright LED room light fixture. Some ambient lighting leaves the best setting slightly brighter than I like, but still doesn't overwhelm the target in my sight picture. It's not perfect but solidly sits right in between the TRS and the PRO in brightness settings. With the right brightness, the Kingslayer's 3 moa dot doesn't appear to me that much bigger than the Aimpoint's 2.

I really like the "circle dot" reticle. The huge size of the circle makes the reticle easy to find and I'm sure would be good for snap shots on close targets. I like that because bear protection while hunting is one of the secondary reasons I bought the handgun. The sharp little center dot makes for good precision. I have astigmatism, so all red dots are blurry without my glasses or even with them if they're set too bright. The Kingslayer actually has the least "starburst" effect without my glasses. Without glasses, the reticle definitely isn't a sharply defined circle like it is with them, but to me, it's more of a slightly fuzzy circle instead of a * shape like any other red dot I can think of.

Overall, I like this optic a lot, especially for the price and purpose. When hunting, I press the volume button on my electronic hearing protection when it gives me a 2 hr auto shut-off warning, so I'll also click the brightness button on the optic whenever I do that to reset its 4 hr off. It would also be good on a "bump in the night" gun unless you would forget to turn it on. That said, when I get my carry pistol milled, I'll be springing for something with a much longer battery life and concealed carry features like auto-brightness and always on or shake-awake.

In the pictures, the reticle is sharper than my camera seems to be able to capture. The target is two 6 rd groups, seated, slow-fire, single-action, at 15 yards with the one called flier being a massive flinch. It's a big improvement over anything I'm capable of with iron sights.

 

[Phazer]

So I didn't like the weight and balance of the 4+ oz TRS-25 on my revolver so I decided to put a miniature reflex sight on my 629. I bought the Swampfox Kingslayer after hearing good things about it. It's a 1.2 oz part including the Picatinny rail base with a 3 moa dot framed by a 65 moa circle and crosshairs.

It's not auto-on, is auto-off (after 4 hrs), and the battery life is relatively short, so it's not a good carry optic, but I figured it would be plenty for target-shooting and hunting for under $200.

I've tried a bunch of miniature handgun red dots (Vortex Venom, RMR, one of the Sig Romeos) but only owned 2 tube red dots before the Kingslayer – the Aimpoint PRO and the Brownells TRS-25. The TRS-25 put a bad taste in my mouth when it came to 3 moa dots because the 2 moa Aimpoint is much sharper and more precise, so I thought it was a size issue. Turns out it's more of a brightness issue. The TRS is too bright on its lowest setting in low-light. Since I do most of my shooting indoors and see most animals in low-light, it's a problem. The TRS is back on my 2nd-string AR. The Kingslayer's brightness range is great, from visible only in darkness to bright enough to see when all the lights in the room are on and it's pointed directly at a bright LED room light fixture. Some ambient lighting leaves the best setting slightly brighter than I like, but still doesn't overwhelm the target in my sight picture. It's not perfect but solidly sits right in between the TRS and the PRO in brightness settings. With the right brightness, the Kingslayer's 3 moa dot doesn't appear to me that much bigger than the Aimpoint's 2.

I really like the "circle dot" reticle. The huge size of the circle makes the reticle easy to find and I'm sure would be good for snap shots on close targets. I like that because bear protection while hunting is one of the secondary reasons I bought the handgun. The sharp little center dot makes for good precision. I have astigmatism, so all red dots are blurry without my glasses or even with them if they're set too bright. The Kingslayer actually has the least "starburst" effect without my glasses. Without glasses, the reticle definitely isn't a sharply defined circle like it is with them, but to me, it's more of a slightly fuzzy circle instead of a * shape like any other red dot I can think of.

Overall, I like this optic a lot, especially for the price and purpose. When hunting, I press the volume button on my electronic hearing protection when it gives me a 2 hr auto shut-off warning, so I'll also click the brightness button on the optic whenever I do that to reset its 4 hr off. It would also be good on a "bump in the night" gun unless you would forget to turn it on. That said, when I get my carry pistol milled, I'll be springing for something with a much longer battery life and concealed carry features like auto-brightness and always on or shake-awake.

In the pictures, the reticle is sharper than my camera seems to be able to capture. The target is two 6 rd groups, seated, slow-fire, single-action, at 15 yards with the one called flier being a massive flinch. It's a big improvement over anything I'm capable of with iron sights.
View attachment 90120 View attachment 90121 View attachment 90122

Wait....what? A pistol that doesn't use magazines? WTF is that contraption?

 

[togmaster]

Wait....what? A pistol that doesn't use magazines? WTF is that contraption?

One of them steam powered pistols I suppose.