Lets talk Red Dots on handguns

[Phazer]

I cannot really talk since I’ve never used one except for a cheap one an a pellet handgun. But what happens when the presentation isn’t perfect because it cannot be due to circumstances?

Point shoot.

But, as you point out, backup iron sights would appear to be a necessity on an EDC pistol with a red dot.

For example, I know that with iron sights against a bad guy I'm fine if I'm shooting center mass with a front sight that is a bit high or a bit low. But, with the red dot, I might not even see the dot with a less than optimal elevation upon presentation.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I cannot really talk since I’ve never used one except for a cheap one an a pellet handgun. But what happens when the presentation isn’t perfect because it cannot be due to circumstances?

If it's off with a dot it's off with irons.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Point shoot.

But, as you point out, backup iron sights would appear to be a necessity on an EDC pistol with a red dot.

For example, I know that with iron sights against a bad guy I'm fine if I'm shooting center mass with a front sight that is a bit high or a bit low. But, with the red dot, I might not even see the dot with a less than optimal elevation upon presentation.

It wouldn't be point shooting, the bad presentation that you are seeing more noticable with the dot and the one that @Marine Cpl would be referring to is no different than a bad presentation with irons.

Difference is you are used to making the necessary corrections with irons, but with a dot you are getting much more information and feedback making it seem like an issue.

Simplified, if you draw and dont get the dot that means with the same draw your irons would not have been on and you would have adjusted for that, but you have how many years of iron sight work? So it appears to be an issue with a dot when in reality its the same thing with the same fundamentals

 

[Marine Cpl]

If it's off with a dot it's off with irons.

Well not necessarily. You still always have the front sight for a point shoot minus elevation like Phazer said. Is it possible to cowitness the front sight so that you do not see it if everything is lined up correctly?

 

[Edwardteach72]

Well not necessarily. You still always have the front sight for a point shoot minus elevation like Phazer said. Is it possible to cowitness the front sight so that you do not see it if everything is lined up correctly?

With handguns you don't slave the dot to the irons.

And similar argument you dont see the dot but you can use the window as a nice big ol ghost ring, pretty much place the upper thoracic inside that window and its hitting something

 

[Edwardteach72]

I wish I could find the picture of an RMR being used with no dot over an IPSC or IDPA target.

Also even if the lens is obscured and the dot fails (lot of ifs) atleast with the RMR (other rounded housed dots would need some other type of reference) the "owl ears" can be used very effectively for aiming, to include if in extreme cases needed to take a head shot at a reasonable (I believe out to even 25y)

 

[Jem45472]

I cannot really talk since I’ve never used one except for a cheap one an a pellet handgun. But what happens when the presentation isn’t perfect because it cannot be due to circumstances?

I'm guessing the window will be in the ballpark at close ranges. Suppressor height sights can also be bought, but that's not going to help if you can't get proper alignment. I'm thinking of adding a laser as a secondary sight system. I don't want taller sights to clutter the window, and laser would be for if the dot was ever out for any reason.

 

[togmaster]

I'm guessing the window will be in the ballpark at close ranges. Suppressor height sights can also be bought, but that's not going to help if you can't get proper alignment. I'm thinking of adding a laser as a secondary sight system. I don't want taller sights to clutter the window, and laser would be for if the dot was ever out for any reason.

I run blacked out suppressor height sights and I never notice them when using the dot. My rear sight is mounted in front of the dot and there is nothing cluttering up the window.

 

[Jem45472]

I run blacked out suppressor height sights and I never notice them when using the dot. My rear sight is mounted in front of the dot and there is nothing cluttering up the window.

Good to know, I wasn't sure. There's a lot less glass on here than the larger ar ones lol.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I run blacked out suppressor height sights and I never notice them when using the dot. My rear sight is mounted in front of the dot and there is nothing cluttering up the window.

This right here. Once you start shooting threat focused instead of front sight focused (like traditional irons) "clutter" is almost non existent.

That would be different if say you had green F/O rear, and Red F/O front and a dot.

But if you run Blacked out rear sights and maybe a F/O front or even better a blacked out front sight

I need to make better photos of these but personally I wish I went irons forward on my G19 like I did on my P07 but neither are wrong

(Also if you notice, hard to see, but the iron sights are not aligned, not even sure where the front sight is but the dot is on target and that's where the rounds land

 

[Phazer]

I got to try my 507c on my G19 today. I zeroed it at 10 yards (using sandbag for support). It felt odd, at first. But, the optic makes quicker follow-up shots possible for me.

If I don't keep focus on fundamentals (grip, trigger pull), I still push my shots low left when shooting faster. That said, I believe that with more practice I'll be able to be combat accurate at 7-10 yards at faster rates of fire than with iron sights.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I got to try my 507c on my G19 today. I zeroed it at 10 yards (using sandbag for support). It felt odd, at first. But, the optic makes quicker follow-up shots possible for me.

If I don't keep focus on fundamentals (grip, trigger pull), I still push my shots low left when shooting faster. That said, I believe that with more practice I'll be able to be combat accurate at 7-10 yards at faster rates of fire than with iron sights.

With the dot remember to focus on the target not the dot (or irons) and just super impose the dot onto the target. It takes some time to get used to

 

[Phazer]

Has anyone tried, or heard about, Battle Werx for slide milling? Their prices appear to be quite reasonable for optic slide cuts.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Has anyone tried, or heard about, Battle Werx for slide milling? Their prices appear to be quite reasonable for optic slide cuts.

My buddy got his 19 done by them he said it was quality work just took longer than others of the same prestige

 

[Jem45472]

Sent my slide out today. Hope I like using the dot, because there's no turning around now.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Sent my slide out today. Hope I like using the dot, because there's no turning around now.

Who are you sending it to? What irons are you adding? Rear iron going in front or rear of the dot?

 

[Jem45472]

Who are you sending it to? What irons are you adding? Rear iron going in front or rear of the dot?

Galloway precision $125. Keeping standard sight set up . The sights I want from Novak are back ordered. I'm waiting to see if by chance the standard irons will work after milling, but I doubt it. Looks like they might just miss.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Galloway precision $125. Keeping standard sight set up . The sights I want from Novak are back ordered. I'm waiting to see if by chance the standard irons will work after milling, but I doubt it. Looks like they might just miss.

If it's anything other than pretty much the shield RMS or the even shittier Sig Romeo it will not cowitness (specifically holosun or Trijicon)


1 of 3 things will happen

1) you get it back and you absolutely love it

2) you get it back and it's not instant awesomeness and you decide to sit down and put in the time and effort to build proficiency, then you love the dot (most likely)

3) you get it back it's not a magic box that makes you john wick, dot is bouncing all over the place "irons dont do that" (they do) this is dumb I'm going back to irons (less likely to happen hopefully)

 

[Jem45472]

If it's anything other than pretty much the shield RMS or the even shittier Sig Romeo it will not cowitness (specifically holosun or Trijicon)


1 of 3 things will happen

1) you get it back and you absolutely love it

2) you get it back and it's not instant awesomeness and you decide to sit down and put in the time and effort to build proficiency, then you love the dot (most likely)

3) you get it back it's not a magic box that makes you john wick, dot is bouncing all over the place "irons dont do that" (they do) this is dumb I'm going back to irons (less likely to happen hopefully)

Damn, I was hoping for the John Wick option. The sights I will end up going with when they become available.

Novak Designs Inc. - LMA Suppressor Night Sight Set

 

[Edwardteach72]

Damn, I was hoping for the John Wick option. The sights I will end up going with when they become available.

Novak Designs Inc. - LMA Suppressor Night Sight Set

Hahaha.

Nice sights

 

[Jem45472]

Hahaha.

Nice sights

Yeah, and I decide all this after I already installed a set of truglo tfx pros.

 

[Edwardteach72]

Yeah, and I decide all this after I already installed a set of truglo tfx pros.

Sounds like a good excuse to buy those tfx a new home

 

[Edwardteach72]

If you has the facebooks here is a good training aid

 

[m1a_scoutguy]

You move it till it is perfect, or at least so you can see the dot. It takes time, your not gonna be spot on right from the get/go! Its slowdown, fundamentals 1st & foremost and if your presenting the pistol correctly it is gonna come faster! I'm up to over 1K and I get it right about 90% of the time so I feel pretty good about it. At 66 I may "never" get it 100% but it won't be from a lack of trying, LOL Keep at it and get to the range !!

 

[Edwardteach72]

I'm coming back around to not hating Colion, but it's more of a hes slowly very slowly rebuilding my confidence in him from when he was a damn red coat.

But here is a good video mostly because it's from the Sig Academy (everyone knows my thoughts on Sig USA, the p320 is just stupid but the X frame models really do look good AF, but i am 100% anti any of "their" handgun optics)

Anyways

 

[Jem45472]

I'm coming back around to not hating Colion, but it's more of a hes slowly very slowly rebuilding my confidence in him from when he was a damn red coat.

But here is a good video mostly because it's from the Sig Academy (everyone knows my thoughts on Sig USA, the p320 is just stupid but the X frame models really do look good AF, but i am 100% anti any of "their" handgun optics)

Anyways

I thought holosun made their optics for them, at least the bigger ones. If that's the case, you would think they would have picked a better quality one.

 

[Edwardteach72]

I thought holosun made their optics for them, at least the bigger ones. If that's the case, you would think they would have picked a better quality one.

Yes they are made by holosun, but they are just rebranded Primary Arms or other meh optics.. as for the handgun ones again holosun made but they arent say rebranded 507 or 508s. They are knock off Shield RMS which arent good either..

Fuck sig handgun optics are such trash that sig even now sells a protective cover that goes over their newest "flag ship" handgun optic

 

[Edwardteach72]

So reading over the requirements there is absolutely nothing on the market that meets all these requirements

CBP Seeks Service Handgun Electronic Aiming Device for New Glock Pistols | Soldier Systems Daily

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Customs and Border Protection has issued an RFI to industry for a "Service Handgun Electronic Aiming Dev ...

soldiersystems.net

 

[Phazer]

Yes they are made by holosun, but they are just rebranded Primary Arms or other meh optics.. as for the handgun ones again holosun made but they arent say rebranded 507 or 508s. They are knock off Shield RMS which arent good either..

Fuck sig handgun optics are such trash that sig even now sells a protective cover that goes over their newest "flag ship" handgun optic

I'm still having fun with my dovetail plate-mounted Holosun 507c on my Glock 19. After 200+ rounds, it's working fine.

 

[Bustedknees]

Well i mounted up the Holosun on the Glock and treid it out today.. its my first ever pistol mounted optic and ill say i like it a lot.. What I dont like is the f#$king Glock. I've tried different handholds, presure, finger placement, ect.. I am however consistently low n left with irons and the dot.. I'm sure I could adjust the sights to compensate but that's not the way to go.. I'll most likely pull the red dot off and find a local glock lover to give me some pointers before wasting more ammo.. makes me wish my new vp9 was optic ready, it's not a fussy gun..