Maryland SWAT Team Serving Red Flag Warrant Shoot, Kill 21-Year-Old Man Asleep In His Bed

[spat]

The argument was that the feds are limited only to pass law allowed by constitution and that the state had more authority to pass the laws they wanted. It was also alleged that the search warrants were unconstitutional. The warrants are a function of the state. Therefore they are legal and acceptable by your own words. Unless you want to flip flop again.

The states have more authority than the feds.

Nobody has said it was unlimited.

There are in fact many specific limits on state power.

Originally the constitution allowed the states a lot of leeway (you could own people for gods sakes). But then the 14th amendment was passed and (eventually) shut down a lot of those shenanigans.

The 4th amendment prohibits "unreasonable searches and seizures". The 14th amendment says this applies to the states as well as the feds. The vast majority of no-knock warrants are unreasonable.

Defenders of government overreach frequently cite necessity as a justification. It is not. If a truck driver said "I can't do my job with all these DOT restrictions" the cops would laugh in his face and then turn around and justify their own violations of the law with "I can't do my job if I have to follow those rules".

Every other industry has to figure it out, so should you.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Bottom line. Almost all No Knock Raids emphasis on NO KNOCK where the door is kicked in and or a window is broken are done for drugs and guns. Very few are done for hostage rescue, imminent terroristic activities, and criminals that barricade themselves because those criminal actions are rare.

For drugs and gun possession, neither of those crimes are imminent to where the lives of the officers conducting those raids and the lives of the innocent also in the dwelling are necessary.

When a No Knock is conducted and a window and or a door is kicked in, the occupants of the dwelling immediately take up a fight or flight response whether innocent or not. It’s human nature. That response results in commands not being heard, confusion, and actions that can be construed as hostile to the officers assaulting the place. It immediately places everyone in that dwelling into a life threatening situation. Including pets.

Drug and gun possession is not eminent. You cannot flush guns down a toilet if that’s your argument. And if we are talking about just one or two bags of drugs, those one or two bags aren’t eminent either to the point to where the lives of grandma, your two kids, and Fido are put in danger. 2 bags of drugs are peanuts and small game.

 

[SomeSoldier]

Agree. But you aren't defending yourself against the police. If you aren't putting them into a deadly situation you will see your day in court.

How do I know it's the police when I am startled out of a sound sleep and flash banged into not know which way is up? Then get shot because I cannot comply because I cant see or hear? The odds of me making it to court are non existent at that point.

 

[Chevusa]

How do I know it's the police when I am startled out of a sound sleep and flash banged into not know which way is up? Then get shot because I cannot comply because I cant see or hear? The odds of me making it to court are non existent at that point.

They have no reason to come to your house. I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[SomeSoldier]

They have no reason to come to your house. I wouldn’t worry about it.

And we have come full circle. I am done. Waiting for the rest of the story.

 

[Toecutter]

If flushing is a concern I wonder if tech can be developed to send a robot into the sewer and inflate a bladder in the waste line at the moment a knock happens. Shouldn’t be hard to do.

 

[Chevusa]

And we have come full circle. I am done. Waiting for the rest of the story.

The whole thread got out of hand with the unrealistic fear of the cops breaking down the wrong door and killing everyone. It's silly, but I guess people are getting bored in these times.

 

[Toecutter]

I don’t think it’s a fear of police kicking in our doors . More of a concern for the people that they have done this to. We don’t know this guy or the full story but as it sits an iAmerican lost his life to a possible overreaction by our government. If people don’t start standing up to this it will just keep getting worse.

 

[Chevusa]

I don’t think it’s a fear of police kicking in our doors . More of a concern for the people that they have done this to. We don’t know this guy or the full story but as it sits an iAmerican lost his life to a possible overreaction by our government. If people don’t start standing up to this it will just keep getting worse.

I understand. There are a lot of other things to get outraged over though, that happen on a much larger scale. The 1 in 300 million example isn't getting me too excited.

 

[Chevusa]

The last thing I'll add is how funny and ironic it is that there is all this outrage over a media "report". It's funny how people will believe something that fits their agenda, or predisposed mindset, while at the same time declaring things they don't agree with as "fake news", from the same sources. It goes to show you that people will believe what they want to believe, facts or not.

 

[Marine Cpl]

They have no reason to come to your house. I wouldn’t worry about it.

You do realize that if I was a crazy person and had access to your name and address that I can easily red flag you with a good, believable story.

It’s already happened with vindictive ex-girlfriends or wives and even people that didn’t know each other in the online gaming community. Look up the term Swatting.

It’s also happened when confidential informants have deliberately or not deliberately made reports of drug purchases at the wrong address.

 

[Chevusa]

You do realize that if I was a crazy person and had access to your name and address that I can easily red flag you with a good, believable story.

Except no, you couldn't. ..."allows police officers, district attorneys, schools officials and family members"... to file red flag's

It’s also happened when confidential informants have deliberately or not deliberately made reports of drug purchases at the wrong address.

Again, you don't know how it works. You think they just get an address and go storming in? There is no surveillance before hand? The judge doesn't ask for evidence before signing the warrant? Wow.

But.. but.. but.. "it has happened"! For the last time, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over the 1 in 300 million situation. If you choose to do so I can't help you.

 

[spat]

The last thing I'll add is how funny and ironic it is that there is all this outrage over a media "report". It's funny how people will believe something that fits their agenda, or predisposed mindset, while at the same time declaring things they don't agree with as "fake news", from the same sources. It goes to show you that people will believe what they want to believe, facts or not.

You keep talking about how rare mistakes are. Do you have any statistics to back that up ? How many of those 50,000 no knocks actually resulted in fewer casualties than a simple knock on the door ?

You do realize they are so common there is even a word for "SWATing" right ? And that doesn't even cover mistakes, just one specific category of abuse.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Except no, you couldn't. ..."allows police officers, district attorneys, schools officials and family members"... to file red flag's

Again, you don't know how it works. You think they just get an address and go storming in? There is no surveillance before hand? The judge doesn't ask for evidence before signing the warrant? Wow.

But.. but.. but.. "it has happened"! For the last time, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over the 1 in 300 million situation. If you choose to do so I can't help you.

OMG. Really? Did you read the OP? The assault was due to a tip from someone. And as far as surveillance goes, that isn’t SOP. It should be but it isn’t. Look up the Houston raid and similar situations where the wrong house was raided. To put a hole in your argument, if the OP was surveilled, a NO Knock wouldn’t even be necessarily because he would be apprehended outside the home and his house would be searched peacefully.

At this point you seem to be on defensive mode and are making ridiculous points.

 

[spat]

Except no, you couldn't. ..."allows police officers, district attorneys, schools officials and family members"... to file red flag's

Again, you don't know how it works. You think they just get an address and go storming in? There is no surveillance before hand? The judge doesn't ask for evidence before signing the warrant? Wow.

But.. but.. but.. "it has happened"! For the last time, I'm not going to lose too much sleep over the 1 in 300 million situation. If you choose to do so I can't help you.

You do not need to be a DA to get a swat team sent to an innocent person's house.

You call it a 1 in 300 million situation.

Clearly it is far more common than that.

I wasn't able to find any hard statistics, but a simple google search for 'swatting incidents" will demonstrate that it isn't.

It's common enough that the FBI considers it a major problem and they are considering federal legislation specifically to address it.

And that is just *one* form of the abuse.

 

[Chevusa]

At this point you seem to be on defensive mode and are making ridiculous points.

You seem to be picking out the exception not the rule. 1 in 300 million. And in NY where I live, no, you do not qualify to red flag me. Even suggesting to do so is conspiracy to commit a crime.

 

[spat]

You seem to be picking out the exception not the rule. 1 in 300 million. And in NY where I live, no, you do not qualify to red flag me. Even suggesting to do so is conspiracy to commit a crime.

A crime that is common, and the police are instrumental in assisting. Your factual innocence is no protection when the flash bang goes off in your kids room.

 

[Chevusa]

A crime that is common, and the police are instrumental in assisting. Your factual innocence is no protection when the flash bang goes off in your kids room.

Define common. Almost zero percentage of the population does not mean common.

 

[Marine Cpl]

You seem to be picking out the exception not the rule. 1 in 300 million. And in NY where I live, no, you do not qualify to red flag me. Even suggesting to do so is conspiracy to commit a crime.

How can you say I or anyone wouldn’t qualify? That’s wrong. Anyone could say anything to trigger a No Knock response. Here’s an example.


In 2012, CNN interviewed political commentator Erick Erickson to discuss an incident in which he had been the victim of swatting. A caller to 911 gave Erickson's address as his own and claimed:

I just shot my wife, so.... I don't think I could come down there.... She's dead, now.... I'm looking at her.... I'm going to shoot someone else, soon.
— 911 caller[49]

You can see more examples here. These calls are made by spoofing locations by anyone with a computer and a little bit of knowledge.

Swatting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Chevusa]

How can you say I or anyone wouldn’t qualify? That’s wrong. Anyone could say anything to trigger a No Knock response. Here’s an example.


In 2012, CNN interviewed political commentator Erick Erickson to discuss an incident in which he had been the victim of swatting. A caller to 911 gave Erickson's address as his own and claimed:



You can see more examples here. These calls are made by spoofing locations by anyone with a computer and a little bit of knowledge.

Swatting - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I get that has happened in extremely rare cases. You said you could trigger a red flag complaint on me, which you cannot do in NY because you do not fall under one of the qualifying persons, as per the law.

 

[spat]

Define common. Almost zero percentage of the population does not mean common.

Almost 0% of the population has done anything to warrant a SWAT raid either. And my 0% is a lot closer to really 0 than your 0%.

 

[Chevusa]

Almost 0% of the population has done anything to warrant a SWAT raid either. And my 0% is a lot closer to really 0 than your 0%.

That explains why they haven't been raided

 

[Marine Cpl]

I get that has happened in extremely rare cases. You said you could trigger a red flag complaint on me, which you cannot do in NY because you do not fall under one of the qualifying persons, as per the law.

Extremely rare cases? Swatting isn’t rare. It is common enough that the government is trying to implement laws and procedures to combat it. Anyone can do it. Call it what you want. Red flag, Swatting, anything. The end game is the same.

I guess you didn’t read the link.

 

[Chevusa]

Extremely rare cases? Swatting isn’t rare. It is common enough that the government is trying to implement laws and procedures to combat it. Anyone can do it. Call it what you want. Red flag, Swatting, anything. The end game is the same.

I guess you didn’t read the link.

It's not rare? So that must mean it's common. You can't be serious. It's hard to find data on but I was able to find 19 cases. The population is 325 million. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. And these happened before other measures were implemented. If you're home clutching your guns thinking the police are going to come through your door at any moment, please seek the help that you need.

 

[GOPerfect]

There would be less drugs sold in the street to kids . People OD due to inconsistency in the strength of drugs and other crap they are cut with . Heroine is rising because cartels took a hit with marijuana becoming legal they push a new products to make money.
Bottom line raise your kids right and they won’t be shooting junk. I’ve had a half dozen friends who have died due to drug OD on heroine and heart attacks from cocaine . One of my friends was all over the news when he died in a hospital waiting room in the Bronx a few years ago. He lived in a fucked up household with a fucked up family, I e tried to help him but he would never listen I had to distance myself from him .Their choice to do what they do. Yes it’s sad but freedom isn’t safe and it’s not easy . You make bad choices and live with them.
I’ve been around people doing all sorts of drugs and I never touched them , I really don’t even drink much , that’s a choice I made. I’ve struggled with weight all my life if I die from it I don’t expect the government to outlaw bad food.

Just a small point of reference to your post...

Not an argument or anything like that.


In Western NY, this is what I can speak of, the vast majority of junkies come from fantastic homes. Very uppity, well maintained and well structured family's.

Heroin hits all communities equally.

 

[Toecutter]

Just a small point of reference to your post...

Not an argument or anything like that.


In Western NY, this is what I can speak of, the vast majority of junkies come from fantastic homes. Very uppity, well maintained and well structured family's.

Heroin hits all communities equally.

I can’t imagine how stupid you need to be to even try heroin.

I know there has been a problem with people getting hooked on prescription drugs leading to heroin. I’ve know two people this happened to including a cousin of mine. 10 -20 painkillers a day gets pricy and then they start snort heroin because it’s cheaper and eventually start to shoot it .

Both people I know went through years of hell on them and family and are now doing well. One came to me for help and I drove her to a detox clinic and informed her mother. It’s sad but it’s not like they didn’t know how bad it is for you. In fact her father died from aids due to heroin use and she started using anyway. Both were from decent families.

 

[GOPerfect]

Just wait for Krokodil to come to this area, wow.... Bad shit right there.

krokodil - Google Search

 

[spat]

It's not rare? So that must mean it's common. You can't be serious. It's hard to find data on but I was able to find 19 cases. The population is 325 million. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. And these happened before other measures were implemented. If you're home clutching your guns thinking the police are going to come through your door at any moment, please seek the help that you need.

So, since the circumstances that justify no knock raids are extremely rare, we shouldn't worry about them and we should just eliminate them altogether ?

Is that what you're saying ?

 

[Toecutter]

Just wait for Krokodil to come to this area, wow.... Bad shit right there.

krokodil - Google Search

Ugh just looking at the chemical make up . It’s like crude oil and fertilizer mixed together.

 

[GOPerfect]

There are many different levels to these "No Knock" type warrants.

As usual, all types get lumped into one kind. That is itself just pushes the fakeness of it all.

Sometimes, a Np knock warrant is one that is performed "after hours" when the Police know a place will be empty, something like a business.

This term is almost like the blanket terms that categorize groups of people together,.