National reciprocity HR923/S498

[Marine Cpl]

@Celt, this is how I'm reading it.

“(a) In General.—Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof to the contrary—

This is self explanatory to me.

“(1) an individual who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the individual to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce in any State other than the State of residence of the individual that—

“(A) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

“(B) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes; and

This is telling me that if you have a license in your home state to carry and the state you are going to also issues licenses to carry, you can carry there.

“(2) an individual who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and is entitled and not prohibited from carrying a concealed firearm in the State in which the individual resides otherwise than as described in paragraph (1), may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce in any State other than the State of residence of the individual that—

“(A) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

“(B) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

This is telling me the same as above except it's for people that come from states that don't issue carry licenses. IE Alaska, Vermont, ect

“(b) Conditions And Limitations.—The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so.

This is telling me that you are subject to the states rules that you are going to. IE Texas. No carry in bars and where signs are posted. NY. No threaded barrels, ect. You have to follow the same laws as the citizens of that state follow in regards to carry.

“(c) Unrestricted License Or Permit.—In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, an individual carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a concealed handgun according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license of or permit issued to a resident of the State.

This is self explanatory. You have unrestricted carry in whatever state you go to.

“(d) Rule Of Construction.—Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.”.

This is self explanatory as well. It is saying that this bill does not dictate the process for the issuance of licenses to carry by a state.

 

[Celt]

Well, if thats the case then this bill is not as good as i thought. I read it to mean that as long as your not barred by federal or state law that the state would have to give you a permit. It would be absurd that a non resident could carry in ny, but a law abiding state resident couldnt due to a bs process.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Well, if thats the case then this bill is not as good as i thought. I read it to mean that as long as your not barred by federal or state law that the state would have to give you a permit. It would be absurd that a non resident could carry in ny, but a law abiding state resident couldnt due to a bs process.

Baby steps.

 

[enigma]

Excellent write up Will. After reviewing it, I see now that I definitely misinterpreted section (b). With your improved interpretation, and Spat's addition that there aren't any states that completely prevent concealed carry, this bill is looking a lot better.

I see a similarity to the concealed carry provisions of LEOSA. Instead of the base qualification being law enforcement, it would instead be a valid CC permit, or being a resident of a state that doesn't bother with CC licenses. Any person meeting those requirements could CC in any state, but would have to follow the local "unrestricted" rules.

It's far from perfect as Celt pointed out, but definitely a step in the right direction. We develop a momentum with this, get that snowball effect going, and we'll be some very, very happy people in the years to come.

 

[Podmonkey]

Well, if thats the case then this bill is not as good as i thought. I read it to mean that as long as your not barred by federal or state law that the state would have to give you a permit. It would be absurd that a non resident could carry in ny, but a law abiding state resident couldnt due to a bs process.

If the bill does get passed then the absurdity of that fact may be the ammunition pro 2A politicians in NY need to change things.

 

[Acer-m14]

This is why i'm so opposed of a half ass'ed bill. drop the law latin, piglatin gibberish .. the damn bill of rights and constitution was written in plain English so that a poor farmer of the time could understand it ... its your interpretation .. and there interpretation .. we got morons adding there emotions into it ( supreme court) which is a no no .. the old bat better be resigning like she said or move to canada ..

 

[Marine Cpl]

If the bill does get passed then the absurdity of that fact may be the ammunition pro 2A politicians in NY need to change things.

I agree. Regardless, I'd rather have this pass then nothing. It opens up NJ for us locally. And if NY doesn't change it's laws, all it would take is an address change to another state and then NY can go fuck itself. We'd be able to buy any handgun with just a NICS check and bring it in with no registration.

 

[Podmonkey]

This is why i'm so opposed of a half ass'ed bill. drop the law latin, piglatin gibberish .. the damn bill of rights and constitution was written in plain English so that a poor farmer of the time could understand it ... its your interpretation .. and there interpretation .. we got morons adding there emotions into it ( supreme court) which is a no no .. the old bat better be resigning like she said or move to canada ..

And that is a sure fire way to make no progress theses next four years. And you know what? There is really no such thing as a right, George Carlin was right about that. There are only this things worth fighting for, and all this "nonsense" is how we fight in this country. Somone thinks there is a better more comprehensive bill wording that gets us more with an equal or even better chance of passing I'm all ears. We will soon have all three branches of the national government, lets work those tools for everything they are worth!

 

[Acer-m14]

@Willjr75 why are you so still willing to jump the hoops .. a address change .. drive to free state .. pay $$$ for new drivers license for even a bogus address .. po box .. that cost $$ too .,.. change the plates on your car .. ect ... its a damn mess .. all i'm saying is let come out full force .. you want gun crime down ... then do this .. no plea deals .. FED Jail for gun crimes .. let a felon buy a gun and get cought .. LIFE!!! .. NO PLEA!!! period ... ...

 

[GOPerfect]

This is so simple; the Federal Government says outright:

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS A RIGHT OF ALL PEOPLE. IT IS NOT A STATE ISSUE. EACH AND EVERY STATE THAT INFRINGES UPON THE NATURAL RIGHTS OF ITS PEOPLE WILL LOSE EACH AND EVERY FEDERAL TAX DOLLAR UNTIL THE INFRINGEMENT OF THE PEOPLE HAS ENDED.

This is not an issue for the States. There are provisions that are not covered under the Constitution that the States have the power to deal with; the 2A is not one of them. We don not need another law passed. We just need people high up to stand up for ALL of the People!

 

[Acer-m14]

I was born with god giving right to defend me , my family and anyone else i choose and my country .. the 2A enforces that and does not grant that .. @GOPerfect

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Willjr75 why are you so still willing to jump the hoops .. a address change .. drive to free state .. pay $$$ for new drivers license for even a bogus address .. po box .. that cost $$ too .,.. change the plates on your car .. ect ... its a damn mess .. all i'm saying is let come out full force .. you want gun crime down ... then do this .. no plea deals .. FED Jail for gun crimes .. let a felon buy a gun and get cought .. LIFE!!! .. NO PLEA!!! period ... ...

Listen. As of now, the Federal Government cannot dictate how a state runs it's licensing unless a Supreme Court decision finds that state law unconstitutional.

 

[Podmonkey]

Nothing is ever simple, if it were we would not be in this mess. What I advocate is to stop naively dreaming pie in the sky platitudes and get down intonthe mud of the swamp. And I'll say this a hardline stance will likely just get a hardline resistances. How many times have we heard "sensible gun control"? Well now its our time to spin that the other way.

 

[Marine Cpl]

This is so simple; the Federal Government says outright:

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS A RIGHT OF ALL PEOPLE. IT IS NOT A STATE ISSUE. EACH AND EVERY STATE THAT INFRINGES UPON THE NATURAL RIGHTS OF ITS PEOPLE WILL LOSE EACH AND EVERY FEDERAL TAX DOLLAR UNTIL THE INFRINGEMENT OF THE PEOPLE HAS ENDED.

This is not an issue for the States. There are provisions that are not covered under the Constitution that the States have the power to deal with; the 2A is not one of them. We don not need another law passed. We just need people high up to stand up for ALL of the People!

I agree but a bill cannot say that. A court decision can.

Baby steps. Drink slowly or you'll cramp up.

 

[Podmonkey]

I was born with god giving right to defend me , my family and anyone else i choose and my country .. the 2A enforces that and does not grant that .. @GOPerfect

Your were born only with what the powers that be allowed you to have.

 

[GOPerfect]

Listen. As of now, the Federal Government cannot dictate how a state runs it's licensing unless a Supreme Court decision finds that state law unconstitutional.

This is my entire argument, what gave the States the "Right" to start this Permitting thing in the first place.

 

[Acer-m14]

@Willjr75 then why the fuck do i have to buy health care ???? if they can tell me to buy 300 dolla a month health care with a 3K deductible .. why the hell cant they tell the states to back the hell off on firearms ...

 

[GOPerfect]

@Willjr75 then why the fuck do i have to buy health care ???? if they can tell me to buy 300 dollars a month health care with a 3K deductible .. why the hell cant they tell the states to back the hell off on firearms ...

Because They, whoever the hell They are, have programmed the American people that what They say is correct until the Courts say otherwise.

The entire Premise is WRONG!!!!!!

 

[Acer-m14]

if i seam offensive please excuse me .. I'm, Italian .. you should see my hand jesters LOL ..

 

[Marine Cpl]

This is my entire argument, what gave the States the "Right" to start this Permitting thing in the first place.

You and I agree but until that decision from SCOTUS comes about, this bill is a step in the right direction.

The NRA would have to sue the state for the Sullivan Act. It would take more years than Trump has here.

This bill is a good Band-Aid until then.

 

[GOPerfect]

You and I agree but until that decision from SCOTUS comes about, this bill is a step in the right direction.

The NRA would have to sue the state for the Sullivan Act. It would take more years than Trump has here.

This bill is a band

Yes, I agree to a point. We, over the past, many years, have been sold a bill of goods. Still does not make it right.

 

[Gunright]

Even if this doesn't help us immediately in New Yorakastan, we need to have this pass ASAP. First, it puts immense pressure on NY state in terms of equal protection. Secondly, it means that when I leave this God forsaken state and move to a free state, I can at least carry when I return to visit.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Because They, whoever the hell They are, have programmed the American people that what They say is correct until the Courts say otherwise.

The entire Premise is WRONG!!!!!!

You are speaking to the choir. I'm not disagreeing with you. But we all know how it is.

 

[Podmonkey]

This is my entire argument, what gave the States the "Right" to start this Permitting thing in the first place.

Whay does it matter? They did it, got away with and now its time to start pushing back. Reciprocity is the opening salvo, although I bet suppressors coming of NFA happens first.

 

[Podmonkey]

if i seam offensive please excuse me .. I'm, Italian .. you should see my hand jesters LOL ..

Oh god, that explains it then. My last boss was Italian, big ol temper on him!

 

[Acer-m14]

@Gunright i can move to free state now and buy a pistol for open carry and no permit .. why should i have do to that .,. ???

 

[Podmonkey]

In anycase we all need to start sending emails and writing letters to our representatives stating how important Reciprocity is and that we are watching their votes very very closely.
And no harm at all mentioning a mandatory shall issue clause is a necessity as well, if not now then soon.

 

[Acer-m14]

I'm not sure how it would play out here in NY .. but in NY i can buy a black powder pistol .. no if ands or buts .. as long as dont have the bullets for it .,. so what if i open carry it unloaded ??? or ccw ... i have BP and pryrodex but no lead for that pistol caliber .. ????

 

[Marine Cpl]

@Gunright i can move to free state now and buy a pistol for open carry and no permit .. why should i have do to that .,. ???

Because it's your only choice now. It is what it is. We agree with you and are just as mad. But not wanting this bill is foolish when it'll open up the road for many things.

If you throw the whole kitchen sink in there, it'll never pass.

Learn from your enemy. Chip away little by little. It's foolproof.

 

[Podmonkey]

Maybe not foolproof but certainly effective. I think it is very important to present our arguments in a logical fashion. "Its our right" is not a valid argument in the eyes of many so we have to appeal on grounds of increased saftey, logical uniformity of Federal law etc.