Off-duty police officers banned from carrying firearms at New York State Fair

[Truebeliever]

I must learn more of this secret underground world of cop-suckerpunching thuggery and blatant crime perpetrated against the men who carry the heavy shield. Where can I find the hard data? Who knew that thin blue line was so easily stepped across by any ornery jackwagon with a balled up fist? Of course a punch MUST be answered with a gun, hence why you need yours at all times. Let’s be honest here. Force = force, no duty to retreat even years after being off duty. Right? Shoot ‘em, copper- shoot ‘em all! Yeeee hawwwww! It’s the wild northeast!

It’s just a sucker punch if screened for weapons and they don’t get a chance to improvise like a beer bottle. It happens on occasion even when they know we are armed.

 

[Beerman]

It’s just a sucker punch if screened for weapons and they don’t get a chance to improvise like a beer bottle. It happens on occasion even when they know we are armed.

On occasion? Like, two-three times a week? Once a month? Every few years?

And the utter horse shit about cops’ lives getting EASIER after a bad shoot is sickening. You should be ashamed of yourself. You tarnish the images of good officers everywhere when you let your true feelings get out.

 

[4WHLDRFTN]

 

[Truebeliever]

On occasion? Like, two-three times a week? Once a month? Every few years?

And the utter horse shit about cops’ lives getting EASIER after a bad shoot is sickening. You should be ashamed of yourself. You tarnish the images of good officers everywhere when you let your true feelings get out.

Each cop or when you go into work to hear what happened to one of your coworkers? Car vandalism? Often . New rookies who advertised in some manner that they were a cop- often. When I was young and single and we went out to a club or bar to pick up women, you could not say you were a cop without someone else there learning that and starting a fight. Older and wiser attempt to keep it hidden. Or frankly, don’t go out on the town like that. You won’t see cop stickers or stuff on wiser cop’d personal cars as result. You won’t find FOP license plates on my car . We hesitate to tell our neighbors what we di for a living —if you know some cops, you know what I am talking about . And it’s more than that knock on door asking for help. And as someone pointed out, we don’t always have the ability to say no without some type of liability.
Actual physical attacks, you will know a few successful ones on co-workers , unprovoked and a complete surprise a few times a year. These are not the ones where you saw the threat and stared them down . That one varies but was quite often at one time . And I retired from a good area but didn’t always live or work in a hood area.The NYPD I am told has documented over 8,000 in a year. These a documented ones according to what I heard but I couldn’t find a direct source to provide a link or a exact number.
I do know quite a few officers who have been issued a radio to take home with them because of the threats placed against them . We normally don’t take the radio home with us unless we have a take home car.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

A lot of big differences in a generalized way. A former LEO is a target for violence just based on his former profession. And often by people he doesn’t know. The attacks former and off duty officers( on their person and/or property) are so common that it doesn’t make the news.
A “ civilian “ might have an issue with a particular individual or group but unless they are famous, aren’t targeted in the same way.
There was an extreme example that I remember where an off duty police officer and his group were robbed at gunpoint. The off duty officer didn’t resist or identify himself . I am not even sure if he had his gun on him. They found his wallet with his ID card. The robber then cut off his finger so quote “ he can’t be a cop no more”.
A police officer’s family was followed home from church and attacked simply because the person hated cops. The cop had no previous police interaction with the attacker.
This is all too common.

This decision is discrimination against officers who are often required to carry off duty

Tought shit

 

[Truebeliever]

On occasion? Like, two-three times a week? Once a month? Every few years?

And the utter horse shit about cops’ lives getting EASIER after a bad shoot is sickening. You should be ashamed of yourself. You tarnish the images of good officers everywhere when you let your true feelings get out.

Do you want me to tell you the truth or what? It is true. Criminals know what our use of force rules are. Go ahead and point a gun at a burglar. Who did you think they fear more . A cop or you, the armed homeowner? Clearly, you because you don’t have that same use of force issue or they don’t know if you will follow it. Now, after such an incident, criminals do become more respectful and compliant even if it’s out of fear. Do you think criminals are respectful or compliant to police officers because it’s the law? Or that they respect the uniform or something? Seriously, why do you think they comply? A resisting arrest misdemeanor charge when they are facing major violent felonies already?
Tell me more about these good officers that you really don’t know? What was their best arrest? How many complaints do they have on their record? You don’t know.

 

[Truebeliever]

Tought shit

Yeah, and should I be a dick and say that about the new law to you? That would be wrong too. Think about it.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Yeah, and should I be a dick and say that about the new law to you? That would be wrong too. Think about it.

Once again. You and your cop friends are no better than anyone one else. You knew the risks of being a cop, so fucking be a man and deal with it. You have no more a right to self defense than the rest of us.

 

[GOPerfect]

Did I ever tell you guys how awesome it is that I have LEOSA!?

I love using my badge to get out of tickets as well.

Most times, I get my coffee for free as well prior to going into work.

I get a free membership to BJ's as well.

I get lots of cool discounts also, if the cop thing does not work, I'll ask about the Military discount as well.

 

[GOPerfect]

Did I ever tell you guys how awesome it is that I have LEOSA!?

I love using my badge to get out of tickets as well.

Most times, I get my coffee for free as well prior to going into work.

I get a free membership to BJ's as well.

I get lots of cool discounts also, if the cop thing does not work, I'll ask about the Military discount as well.

Oh, and I am exempt from the SAFE Act. Yep, I am special....

 

[Beerman]

I get a free membership to BJ's as well.

You guys can do whatever you want in the locker room as long as you’re off the cock. Uh, clock. Don’t tell, cuz we ain’t askin!

 

[Truebeliever]

Once again. You and your cop friends are no better than anyone one else. You knew the risks of being a cop, so fucking be a man and deal with it. You have no more a right to self defense than the rest of us.

Yep. And when we took the job we were told you get to carry pretty much anywhere and in retirement.
I am dealing with it. I still get to carry pretty much everywhere with some exceptions. And I’m told that I can carry at the fair.( it’s unconfirmed)
Should I say,” deal with it “ even though that most here can’t ?
I don’t agree them doing that. But this argument that the threat is the same just isn’t true. And it’s not going to work with these lawmakers. If you want to sway them, your argument of cops aren’t better argument doesn’t work either . Nor not recognizing the inherit threats of my former profession . Only one person here would have any sway with them . He explained the threats he personally has. Get a few more people with such articulated specific threats to explain how they need the protection and how this new law traps them at home. And how the new law effects them .
You guys are waiting for a court case that may or may not get a TRO until all the appeals are heard. There should be a two prong approach where other legislators can be guilted into making changes to open some of those restrictions now that they got their headlines . How do you think we got our exceptions. How do you think we got LEOSA ? And frankly , CA following NY on this BS is going to get us a LEOSA update to address it.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

Yep. And when we took the job we were told you get to carry pretty much anywhere and in retirement.
I am dealing with it. I still get to carry pretty much everywhere with some exceptions. And I’m told that I can carry at the fair.( it’s unconfirmed)
Should I say,” deal with it “ even though that most here can’t ?
I don’t agree them doing that. But this argument that the threat is the same just isn’t true. And it’s not going to work with these lawmakers. If you want to sway them, your argument of cops aren’t better argument doesn’t work either . Nor not recognizing the inherit threats of my former profession . Only one person here would have any sway with them . He explained the threats he personally has. Get a few more people with such articulated specific threats to explain how they need the protection and how this new law traps them at home. And how the new law effects them .
You guys are waiting for a court case that may or may not get a TRO until all the appeals are heard. There should be a two prong approach where other legislators can be guilted into making changes to open some of those restrictions now that they got their headlines . How do you think we got our exceptions. How do you think we got LEOSA ? And frankly , CA following NY on this BS is going to get us a LEOSA update to address it.

I do not deny that you have a greater inherent risk for reprisals because of your work. I just don't think it fair that your lives are considered more valuable than others, when it comes to basic self defense and the ability to do so.

 

[Acer-m14]

this will now be located at all Fairs entrances ... power on ..

 

[99cummins]

Since I am not allowed to carry at the Erie county fair I guess my life is less valuable than off any duty / retired law enforcement officers life.

thus I will not be attending the fair. I can’t take the risk of being at the fair and running into one of these insane violent customers and chance having something happen to my family or I.

I may or may not know a guy who may or may not have went to the Erie county fair on Friday with a Glock 26 in an iwb holster without any issues. And I may or may not be that guy.

 

[Acer-m14]

i may know a guy too that went to walmart with friends and his wife forgot her purse in the car and the unknown guy i know with no PP went out and got the purse from the car .. fuck this heavy .. i bet the 1911 is in it .. oh well ..

 

[Darth]

I do not deny that you have a greater inherent risk for reprisals because of your work.

I do.

 

[ArmedCorgi]

I do.

Well then..

 

[spat]

Each cop or when you go into work to hear what happened to one of your coworkers? Car vandalism? Often . New rookies who advertised in some manner that they were a cop- often. When I was young and single and we went out to a club or bar to pick up women, you could not say you were a cop without someone else there learning that and starting a fight. Older and wiser attempt to keep it hidden. Or frankly, don’t go out on the town like that. You won’t see cop stickers or stuff on wiser cop’d personal cars as result. You won’t find FOP license plates on my car . We hesitate to tell our neighbors what we di for a living —if you know some cops, you know what I am talking about . And it’s more than that knock on door asking for help. And as someone pointed out, we don’t always have the ability to say no without some type of liability.
Actual physical attacks, you will know a few successful ones on co-workers , unprovoked and a complete surprise a few times a year. These are not the ones where you saw the threat and stared them down . That one varies but was quite often at one time . And I retired from a good area but didn’t always live or work in a hood area.The NYPD I am told has documented over 8,000 in a year. These a documented ones according to what I heard but I couldn’t find a direct source to provide a link or a exact number.
I do know quite a few officers who have been issued a radio to take home with them because of the threats placed against them . We normally don’t take the radio home with us unless we have a take home car.

8000 incidents in year huh.

VS how many for non LEOs in the same area ?

I've got to think incidents of vandalism and general threats in NYC in a year are in the 7 or even 8 figures ?

I bet most aren't even reported, because it's not like reporting them is going to do anything useful.

How'd you like to be a public defender LOL.

 

[Truebeliever]

8000 incidents in year huh.

VS how many for non LEOs in the same area ?

I've got to think incidents of vandalism and general threats in NYC in a year are in the 7 or even 8 figures ?

I bet most aren't even reported, because it's not like reporting them is going to do anything useful.

How'd you like to be a public defender LOL.

Most incidents of vandalism against cops unless directly tied to the job aren’t on those reports . Basically if it happens on the street and not the cop’s parking lot or there isn’t an actual message saying an anti cop message, it’s not recorded as such.

Cops can be victims of crime too and are in those general reports . But if you want to go the pet captia comparison go ahead 8000 reports of assaults, menacing etc to less than 40,000 vs X to 8,000,000 to 12,000,000 ( 12 million in the city due to commuters in the city too.)
Do you really think that civilian NYC are victimized at yearly rate grater than 1 per 5 people ?
Again, that 8,000 number might not be accurate but if it’s even close

And now to give you a comparison to risk in NYC

12 Most Dangerous Neighborhoods in NYC | PropertyClub

New York City is a fun place to visit and live. Just like any city, there are some places you should stay away from during your time there. Some areas are more dangerous than others in New York City. Read on to discover the twelve worst neighborhoods in NYC for crime.

propertyclub.nyc

They give the chances of being a crime victim n the worst neighborhoods in NYC.

 

[Tisto]

The danger you face is different than another human being trying to kill you. When you go home , that danger of the 80,000 rig is over. I really don’t care if you carry at the fair or not. I still don’t know if I could carry at the fair because I’m not off duty but retired. It’s different because I am not being asked to violate department policy not to carry. It sucks but I am not risking being docked vacation days because I want to take my family to the fair in addition to the physical risk the off duty officer would face if the wrong person recognized him and knows he is not armed. If you had such a threat , chances are you would recognize the person. Cops don’t always know the threat and often had no previous direct interaction with their attacker.
You might have a threat it’s not the same level of threat, it just isn’t .
Now , let’s talk about the corruption you talk about. Trying to plant evidence? Please describe ?
Now, when you claim they were wrong in the law, did they ask for money to look the other way or something? If not, that's not corruption but just being wrong about the law.
As far as the trooper pulling you over for 15 minutes, we have no idea why he did it.

If you care to read about either of the encounters mentioned, use the search function. I'm not going to go into it in depth again.

If you want to go to the State fair, then do what the rest of us will have to do : lock your pistol in your vehicle and hope it doesn't get broken into. It should be fine, there are purple ties everywhere, even in the parking lots. And, since you still posess super cop powers of observation, the risk of some random villan that doesn't know you at all getting the drop on you with a sucker punch seems extremely remote. And, if that does happen, there are plenty of purple ties walking around to defend you.

Have you noticed that no-one, including current LEO's are agreeing with your opinion that you're special because you were a cop ? Maybe that should tell you something. You're NOT special. Period. You are no more deserving of special treatment than any other person. If a rule is to be made, it needs to apply to EVERYONE EQUALLY. I absolutely disagree with the State fair being a "gun free zone" for ANYONE that is legally allowed to carry. I notice that you gave up on the arguement that cops had a better temperment and were more trustworthy.

Do you honestly believe that I or anyone else here would recognize someone that has a vendetta against us ? Admittedly, the group of people that MIGHT want to do harm to me specifically ( as opposed to being a RANDOM target ) would be those that were involved in the grand jury process or relatives of them. You of all people should know that defendants rarely show up in person to a grand jury. How would I possibly recognize them ? Are you saying they pose no threat ?

Your arguements for special treatment doesn't hold water.

 

[Truebeliever]

If you care to read about either of the encounters mentioned, use the search function. I'm not going to go into it in depth again.

If you want to go to the State fair, then do what the rest of us will have to do : lock your pistol in your vehicle and hope it doesn't get broken into. It should be fine, there are purple ties everywhere, even in the parking lots. And, since you still posess super cop powers of observation, the risk of some random villan that doesn't know you at all getting the drop on you with a sucker punch seems extremely remote. And, if that does happen, there are plenty of purple ties walking around to defend you.

Have you noticed that no-one, including current LEO's are agreeing with your opinion that you're special because you were a cop ? Maybe that should tell you something. You're NOT special. Period. You are no more deserving of special treatment than any other person. If a rule is to be made, it needs to apply to EVERYONE EQUALLY. I absolutely disagree with the State fair being a "gun free zone" for ANYONE that is legally allowed to carry. I notice that you gave up on the arguement that cops had a better temperment and were more trustworthy.

Do you honestly believe that I or anyone else here would recognize someone that has a vendetta against us ? Admittedly, the group of people that MIGHT want to do harm to me specifically ( as opposed to being a RANDOM target ) would be those that were involved in the grand jury process or relatives of them. You of all people should know that defendants rarely show up in person to a grand jury. How would I possibly recognize them ? Are you saying they pose no threat ?

Your arguements for special treatment doesn't hold water.

Apparently it did . How do you think we got the exception to this new law. The limited exception to the over 10 round magazines for retired cops ?

And if pro-2A crime victim groups got together and lobbied, they would get exceptions too. Exceptions that would cover a lot more people .

 

[Acer-m14]

how many of we the people were killed vs the NYSP or any other Leo agency ..

your numbers are mynute ..

 

[spat]

Most incidents of vandalism against cops unless directly tied to the job aren’t on those reports . Basically if it happens on the street and not the cop’s parking lot or there isn’t an actual message saying an anti cop message, it’s not recorded as such.

Cops can be victims of crime too and are in those general reports . But if you want to go the pet captia comparison go ahead 8000 reports of assaults, menacing etc to less than 40,000 vs X to 8,000,000 to 12,000,000 ( 12 million in the city due to commuters in the city too.)
Do you really think that civilian NYC are victimized at yearly rate grater than 1 per 5 people ?
Again, that 8,000 number might not be accurate but if it’s even close

And now to give you a comparison to risk in NYC

12 Most Dangerous Neighborhoods in NYC | PropertyClub

New York City is a fun place to visit and live. Just like any city, there are some places you should stay away from during your time there. Some areas are more dangerous than others in New York City. Read on to discover the twelve worst neighborhoods in NYC for crime.

propertyclub.nyc

They give the chances of being a crime victim n the worst neighborhoods in NYC.

I think I wouldn't want to live or work in that shithole.

And I especially wouldn't want to pay twice as much to do it.

I also think your perspective on this is heavily skewed because of that.

In the real world, cops don't have those problems. If you find yourself working somewhere that does, best to GTFO.

 

[spat]

Apparently it did . How do you think we got the exception to this new law. The limited exception to the over 10 round magazines for retired cops ?

And if pro-2A crime victim groups got together and lobbied, they would get exceptions too. Exceptions that would cover a lot more people .

How much does your union donate to legislators?

 

[Acer-m14]

 

[Acer-m14]

wish i was a nycpd leo .. guys i found a roach in the car ..

 

[Tisto]

I think I wouldn't want to live or work in that shithole.

And I especially wouldn't want to pay twice as much to do it.

I also think your perspective on this is heavily skewed because of that.

In the real world, cops don't have those problems. If you find yourself working somewhere that does, best to GTFO.

Are you kidding ? I don't even want that shithole being part of my State !

 

[Truebeliever]

how many of we the people were killed vs the NYSP or any other Leo agency ..

your numbers are mynute ..

Go look at them per captia.
FBI stats :
The rate of officer assaults in 2019 was 11.8 per 100 sworn officers. (See Table 80.)

Do you think 1out ten people are assaulted in the US each year?
2141 were assaulted with a firearm in 2019 out of 56141 recorded assaults. They lived so they aren’t on the killed stats out of 475,848 officers. But only 48 murdered . Only 48. About 1 out 10,000 chance ( actually of dying per year by 2019 stats. My math could be off. What was the civilian rate in 2019?
FBI stats:

There were 5.0 murders per 100,000 people in 2019 or .5 chance out of 10,000.
Who are most of those murders victims ? I don’t know but a large number are criminals themselves. Most of those murders occur in just 25 cities. Without those cities , gun violence would be less than a lot of European countries that the left puts up as examples to follow.

 

[Truebeliever]

How much does your union donate to legislators?

Almost nothing , it was too small. Previous unions? I don’t know. I worked more than one LEO job.