Pair arrested for possessing a loaded hand gun in a vehicle following a traffic stop on the Thruway.

[Airborneguy]

Serious question. If these two were gang bangers on their way to a shooting, does the fact that you take 100% absolutist stances on gun laws mean they are now the real victims?

Legit people don’t play the “that’s not mines” game which results in the arrests of all parties in a vehicle. They are perps. Real perps. Likely repeat perps.

I really hope the wider gun community does not become one that defends bad actors just as much as leftists.

 

[Marine Cpl]

AB will go through all lengths to defend rights violations by his gang. It doesn’t matter who got their rights violated. Rights shouldn’t be violated. Period. Because if they can be violated for a criminal, they can be for you.

That same cop that pulled these scumbags over and illegally charged them will do the same to you if you carried a Glock with no NYS permission slip or if you had an AR SBR.

 

[spat]

Serious question. If these two were gang bangers on their way to a shooting, does the fact that you take 100% absolutist stances on gun laws mean they are now the real victims?

Legit people don’t play the “that’s not mines” game which results in the arrests of all parties in a vehicle. They are perps. Real perps. Likely repeat perps.

I really hope the wider gun community does not become one that defends bad actors just as much as leftists.

Either we all have rights or none of us do.

Even if they were gang bangers on their way to a hit it doesn't matter.

What other rights should we suspend ? I am sure you guys could be way more effective if you could just do whatever you want to anyone. I'm sure crime would plummet if you were allowed to beat confessions out of people you "know" are guilty on the spot.

I still do not want to live in that world.

I would prefer to live in a world where Hannibal Lecter gets to walk free until you have *actual proof* he committed a crime than to live in a world where I could be punished because someone *thinks* I did something.

I am sure some of the jews at Dachau were very bad people too. Statistically there were probably a few serial killers. But, *even for the serial killers* what happened there was wrong.

 

[Airborneguy]

That’s not what I asked. I’m not talking about hyperbolic “thought crime”-type nonsense.

You used the word “victims” earlier. To you, these people are victims? You empathize with shitty people who use guns to commit crimes regularly just because they were caught while not actually firing one or displaying it menacingly?

 

[Darth]

Nobody has been proven guilty. They have simply been accused of a crime for which evidence exists. They will probably wise up when push comes to shove. The truth will set you (or your friend) free. Using your argument people could just drive around with a pickup bed filled with fentanyl with immunity because neither the driver or passenger could be charged. It defies logic.

I'd take 1000 of those over one innocent being charged any day.

 

[spat]

That’s not what I asked. I’m not talking about hyperbolic “thought crime”-type nonsense.

You used the word “victims” earlier. To you, these people are victims? You empathize with shitty people who use guns to commit crimes regularly just because they were caught while not actually firing one or displaying it menacingly?

Yes, they are victims here.

You can be a scumbag *and* a victim at the same time.

If someone breaks in and steals a drug dealers drugs, he is the victim of a crime. It doesn't matter if he was out beating one of his rivals to death at the time.


I empathize with them because unlike some people I look to where we are headed. Right now a significant % of the population thinks you and I are *worse* than the gangbangers because of our political opinions.

Imagine the world where they are in charge and they declare that Republicans and conservatives are scum that don't deserve rights.

We are headed to that world.

 

[Airborneguy]

We are definitely headed that way, but I don’t see the solution being to start thinking like them. I don’t necessarily disagree with your position that bad people should be in jail permanently and only those deserving of rights should be out to enjoy them. But we’ll never have that world, so an in between where violent recidivists and repeat criminals are treated like the scum that they are is acceptable to me.

 

[Marine Cpl]

We are definitely headed that way, but I don’t see the solution being to start thinking like them. I don’t necessarily disagree with your position that bad people should be in jail permanently and only those deserving of rights should be out to enjoy them. But we’ll never have that world, so an in between where violent recidivists and repeat criminals are treated like the scum that they are is acceptable to me.

Who gets to decide what people are scum? Because I’ve read a lot of stories of non scum people getting arrested in NY for carrying a gun without a permission slip. Do you know why that is? Hint. It’s because it is enforced for what you consider to be scum. The law has validity. Had it never been enforced for SCUM, it would never spill over to us.

 

[spat]

We are definitely headed that way, but I don’t see the solution being to start thinking like them. I don’t necessarily disagree with your position that bad people should be in jail permanently and only those deserving of rights should be out to enjoy them. But we’ll never have that world, so an in between where violent recidivists and repeat criminals are treated like the scum that they are is acceptable to me.

The day may come when I agree with you about the scum.

Once the system finally collapses and the majority of people cease to respect it, or it goes full retard and the fascists calling themselves anti-fascist takenover then my outlook will drastically shift.

Right now there are a lot of things I do not do only because they are illegal. I am not quite at the point where it's time to hoist the Jolly Rodger and begin slitting throats, but if you've seen the James o'Keefe videos of the Bernie staffers praising gulags, then you see what I'm afraid of.

If that time ever comes, then all bets are off. My very libertarian outlook will shift and live and let live will be a distant memory. My family will come first and anyone in the way is expendable, even if they "did nothing wrong".

 

[spat]

We are definitely headed that way, but I don’t see the solution being to start thinking like them. I don’t necessarily disagree with your position that bad people should be in jail permanently and only those deserving of rights should be out to enjoy them. But we’ll never have that world, so an in between where violent recidivists and repeat criminals are treated like the scum that they are is acceptable to me.

Also, things like this are why we don't want to just trust you guys when you tell us "they were scum, they deserve what they got even if we don't have real proof".

LAPD scandal opens window into California's secret gang database as reforms debated

:cowboy: LAPD scandal opens window into California's secret gang database as reforms debated :eek:

nygunforum.com

Maybe those guys you stopped that you're sure were up to no good *are* bad guys. But we can't be sure you're right without proof.

So, absent real proof of wrongdoing, we are going to assume they weren't up to no good, and they are being unjustly harrassed.

Yep this means a lot of bad guys will get away. But they were just going to turn them loose in a couple hours anyway, so where's the harm.

 

[GOPerfect]

Who gets to decide what people are scum? Because I’ve read a lot of stories of non scum people getting arrested in NY for carrying a gun without a permission slip. Do you know why that is? Hint. It’s because it is enforced for what you consider to be scum. The law has validity. Had it never been enforced for SCUM, it would never spill over to us.

This is going to sound quite arrogant...

In my personal life, I decide who the scum is. I do this each and everyday. I check out each and every person that comes into my breathing space or my eyesight. I judge more than anyone I have ever known. I am a serious judger.

In my Professional life, I do nearly the same, I size people up all of the time. I decide pretty quickly who in my mind are the scum among us. My eyes are wide open. I judge all around me using every factor that I can think of.

Example, I see a person with tract marks on their arms; I assume that they have dirty blood. Hiv, Hep A, B, C or other type of scum bag sicknesses.

I see a certain type of person dressed and acting a certain way, I judge. All of the time. I think I even judge others in my sleep.

 

[GOPerfect]

Also, things like this are why we don't want to just trust you guys when you tell us "they were scum, they deserve what they got even if we don't have real proof".

LAPD scandal opens window into California's secret gang database as reforms debated

:cowboy: LAPD scandal opens window into California's secret gang database as reforms debated :eek:

nygunforum.com

Maybe those guys you stopped that you're sure were up to no good *are* bad guys. But we can't be sure you're right without proof.

So, absent real proof of wrongdoing, we are going to assume they weren't up to no good, and they are being unjustly harrassed.

Yep this means a lot of bad guys will get away. But they were just going to turn them loose in a couple hours anyway, so where's the harm.

So......


Speaking of judging, I went to this link that you provided, I did not read the article yet, the first thing I came across was this picture:




One picture of one person and I have this guy pegged for what he is.

 

[96coal449]

One picture of one person and I have this guy pegged for what he is

One word.

Freak.

 

[Marine Cpl]

So......


Speaking of judging, I went to this link that you provided, I did not read the article yet, the first thing I came across was this picture:


View attachment 62791

One picture of one person and I have this guy pegged for what he is.

That’s very ignorant of you. I know guys like that in the railroad. While they look like that, they come to work to build railroad tracks. They pay taxes, own homes. Ect. Just like you do.

 

[GOPerfect]

Are you @holdover ? You fucked up the quote.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Are you @holdover ? You fucked up the quote.

Fixed it. Refresh.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Anyway, thinking like that is why the police earn the hate.

 

[GOPerfect]

That’s very ignorant of you. I know guys like that in the railroad. While they look like that, they come to work to build railroad tracks. They pay taxes. Ect. Just like you do.

I'll bet you, what this guy is, is not like those that work in the railroad.

 

[Marine Cpl]

I'll bet you, what this guy is, is not like those that work in the railroad.

And I’ll bet you that guys down here in the city that look just like him aren’t criminals. But if they drove in your town, you will already prejudge them.

 

[Acer-m14]

what the heck is on that guys head .. leftover salad from lunch ...

 

[GOPerfect]

And I’ll bet you that guys down here in the city that look just like him aren’t criminals. But if they drove in your town, you will already prejudge them.

We all prejudge. Each and everyone of us. If someone tells you they do not, they are full of shit.

It does not matter if my prejudging is wrong, I am always looking for those that do not fit into the mold I have created in my mind. I do not necessarily act on my judging, I just stay on the look.

 

[Marine Cpl]

We all prejudge. Each and everyone of us. If someone tells you they do not, they are full of shit.

It does not matter if my prejudging is wrong, I am always looking for those that do not fit into the mold I have created in my mind. I do not necessarily act on my judging, I just stay on the look.

And here is where prejudging someone comes into play. Someone from PA for example drives across the border with a Glock with a PA license but no NY license. Gets pulled over, searched, ect. Maybe the cop is pro 2A and let’s him go because he came up clean and looks clean cut.

Someone like that guy in pic above gets pulled over for the same thing. Same Glock. No license since he cannot get one in NYC. Gets locked up because he looks a certain way and even though he comes up clean, he must be a perp. He must be because he has an illegal gun.

Little did the cop know that that guy was a combat vet from the reserves or perhaps used to be an EMT. He’s held a job perhaps driving a city bus making 100,000 a year. But because he looks a certain way and is wearing and driving flashy things, he’s a perp. Probably a perp that hasn’t been caught yet.

 

[GOPerfect]

You ever prejudge people?

 

[Marine Cpl]

You ever prejudge people?

All the time. It’s natural. I hate certain people. Sometimes I hate them and later find out they are good to go when I’m forced to work with them. But if my job was to enforce laws while defending the constitution, I would not want to charge perps or who I may think is a perp for an unconstitutional law. Because one, they may not be a perp, and two, even if they were, it’s still wrong to do so.

 

[GOPerfect]

I use more than preconceived notions while working.

One of the reasons I say on this forum all the time, only break one law at a time.

 

[spat]

So......


Speaking of judging, I went to this link that you provided, I did not read the article yet, the first thing I came across was this picture:


View attachment 62791

One picture of one person and I have this guy pegged for what he is.

So, how often are you correct in your assumptions ?

How do you know that you're correct about these people ?

The biggest crooks I know of wear suits and ties.

 

[GOPerfect]

So, how often are you correct in your assumptions ?

How do you know that you're correct about these people ?

The biggest crooks I know of wear suits and ties.

Most of the times.

I agree, many crims are dressed nicely. My judgement goes deep. Very deep.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Still wrong. Why should my constitutional rights be violated because I did 75 in a 65? I should just get the ticket.

I understand that if I’m smart, I have to be careful because of cops out there that do not honor their oaths and if I want to lessen my chances of going to jail, I shouldn’t speed. But it shouldn’t be that way.

I should only have to be worried about getting a ticket when I speed. That’s it. The police don’t even have to look the other way if they find my 20 rd magazine so as to not put their jobs into jeopardy. Just give the driver the damned ticket. Fuck what you smell or don’t smell or think you can find. Just give me the damned ticket. Don’t go fishing. Give me the damned ticket. Do your jobs. Don’t look for loopholes to search my car so that perhaps you can find that 20 rd magazine.

 

[Marine Cpl]

Police wouldn’t be generating all the hate they generate if all they did was give tickets to speeding drivers and respond to actual crimes in progress. If all they did was that, you wouldn’t have all these rights violations in such numbers that come from these fishing expeditions that are car searches.

But they want to be Superman and get that guy with a dime bag or unregistered gun that isn’t visible . Fuck all that. You aren’t going to stop it. Just give the damned speeding ticket.

 

[Day444]

.....But they want to be Superman and get that guy with a dime bag or unregistered gun that isn’t visible . Fuck all that. You aren’t going to stop it. Just give the damned speeding ticket.

So, if you violate a law, you are willing to suffer the consequences. (Take the speeding ticket.) But you want the 20 rd mag overlooked? The lesser of the two charges.. Oh, driving is a privilege so in order to keep doing that I have to follow the rules. The 20 rd mag is covered by the constitution, screw the rules on having one where I'm restricted to do so?

Yeah, I use bad guy radar. If it looks and acts like a perp, then it is a perp until proved otherwise. Perception is a good and useful tool, situational awareness, self preservation.